The New and really Improved , Kyle Dubas Discussion Thread

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Adding a piece would be good. With that cap space we get probably get a 40-50 point winger thats good defensively, gels with the team, and maybe if we're lucky have the ability to play C in case of injury

I'm not suggesting they trade Kerfoot to get it, that would be profoundly stupid.

I'd still like to have a little cap space on deadline day to add a piece.

It would be nice to add a Getzlaf or Rakell, or Manson, or Chariot or Kessel, maybe Subban if we get double rentention or Giroux.

This is a good team that needs that final piece
 
How often does the big trade work at the deadline i rather see him make a minor trade no more folingo type deals I really hated that trade
 
Because of the unprecedented dramatic overpayments that disappear in the playoffs. I know Kerfoot stepped up last year... but his track record is mediocre.
You have a strange obsession with elite players making money it almost seems like jealously at this point
 
Keep living in Groundhog Day. I’m just simply stating that regular season with this team means squat, or haven’t you been watching?

If you're tracking along as a quasi armchair GM or coach, how the Leafs win and what kind of process they're going through means quite a lot in the regular season. If they're playing a team concept game with buy in and consistent work ethic, bearing down in tight games and finding ways to prevail when they're playing their B game, getting contributions from everybody, etc. that means more than playing those track meet and fireworks games. It absolutely means something in that they're doing what they can do before the real test.

Or if you're just following along casually, it's just better entertainment.
 
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How often does the big trade work at the deadline i rather see him make a minor trade no more folingo type deals I really hated that trade

Foligno was simply the wrong target for that type of trade. Tunnel vision on “grit and leadership” led Dubas and company to make an ill-advised trade for an old grinder. The odds of him getting injured were always pretty high and lo and behold it happened. Hall, Palmieri, plenty of other targets that would’ve been better adds.
 
McCann would have been nice to keep, but also worth contextualizing that the guy currently has a sh% of 29% when his career average is closer to 10%. His current offensive output is more of an illusion than anything sustainable
 
I believe he has negative value at a 3.5 mil cap hit. He's a 2 mil player at most. And this team is desperate for cap space.

I'd be curious to know who you think is an "equivalent" player to Alex Kerfoot, that makes $2m, that wouldn't cost an arm and a leg to acquire?

The reason it doesn’t make any sense is because you don’t understand it.

Go 7 forwards and you lose one of Holl or Dermott, most likely Holl.

Signing a Holl replacement last offseason was expensive, 2M will get you no better than a 5 or 6 D. Now in hindsight, Holl took a step back and Lilly stepped up, but at the time of the expansion draft Holl was looking like a solid number 5 with the ability to look comfortable in the #4 spot and Lilly was still a huge question mark.

So to keep the D in tact they went 4-4-1, exposing Kerfoot, Engvall and Dermott.

Kerfoot is their top 6 winger with versatility to allow him to cover C if needed. McCann was available for trade because Pittsburgh wanted a free out from one of their bigger cap contracts and they knew Seattle would be forced to take one if McCann wasn’t available to them via Pittsburgh.

The Leafs essentially saw Kerfoot and McCann as interchangeable pieces trading a B/C prospect and a 7th for a 2b winger/C, be it via trade or retaining. Turns out they were right and Kerfoot/McCann have looked more or less of equal caliber.

Going one step further... let's say the Leafs went 7F, and protected both McCann, Kerfoot, and Engvall.

You're now in a position where you've got both Kerfoot & McCann on your left wing, which probably isn't ideal being that they're similar players, or having to put one at 3rd line C, which basically prevents you from building the shutdown line that the Leafs have around David Kampf.

It also means that unless you go out and subsequently trade Kerfoot, you cannot sign Nick Ritchie to improve this team's toughness & size.

Assuming you still sign Kampf, you're then shopping in UFA to replace Holl with with $1.5m (as McCann is ~$450k more expensive than Ritchie).

If you trade Kerfoot and sign Ritchie, yes, you can go and try to replace Holl with about $2.5m in cap space to do so, but still, not a lot of Holl-replacements out there for that kind of money. I struggle to think of any, to be honest.

Bottom line... you want to argue that the Leafs would have been better off with McCann over Kerfoot? I don't think many will argue with you, they probably would have been, especially if Tavares/Matthews are able to remain healthy all year, and the $550k in cap space is not insignificant.

But, the difference really isn't all that big, and certainly not as big as what the Leafs could have reasonably projected to be between Justin Holl and his replacement.
 
You have a strange obsession with elite players making money it almost seems like jealously at this point
That's not the word I am thinking of.

Remember you are talking to a waffle. They have nothing that they can process anything with
 
The reason it doesn’t make any sense is because you don’t understand it.

Go 7 forwards and you lose one of Holl or Dermott, most likely Holl.

Signing a Holl replacement last offseason was expensive, 2M will get you no better than a 5 or 6 D. Now in hindsight, Holl took a step back and Lilly stepped up, but at the time of the expansion draft Holl was looking like a solid number 5 with the ability to look comfortable in the #4 spot and Lilly was still a huge question mark.

So to keep the D in tact they went 4-4-1, exposing Kerfoot, Engvall and Dermott.

Kerfoot is their top 6 winger with versatility to allow him to cover C if needed. McCann was available for trade because Pittsburgh wanted a free out from one of their bigger cap contracts and they knew Seattle would be forced to take one if McCann wasn’t available to them via Pittsburgh.

The Leafs essentially saw Kerfoot and McCann as interchangeable pieces trading a B/C prospect and a 7th for a 2b winger/C, be it via trade or retaining. Turns out they were right and Kerfoot/McCann have looked more or less of equal caliber.
Nope. Still doesn’t make sense. Them taking Kerfoot and his 3.5 mil cap hit would have been a blessing.
 
Foligno was simply the wrong target for that type of trade. Tunnel vision on “grit and leadership” led Dubas and company to make an ill-advised trade for an old grinder. The odds of him getting injured were always pretty high and lo and behold it happened. Hall, Palmieri, plenty of other targets that would’ve been better adds.

Meh he was the right target, much like Kampf was a good target this offseason.

Sucks that he threw his back out tho.
 
Dubas gets full credit on Kampf, Bunting, Kase

Ritchie and Mrazek a bit suspect. Ritchie had the smaller term and I could see the "boom" potential with it. Mrazek...yea no explaining that away.
 
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Meh he was the right target, much like Kampf was a good target this offseason.

Sucks that he threw his back out tho.

I disagree. Foligno was never going to do what Kampf is doing. They brought Kampf in with the express purpose of building a low event checking line around him. Something you can only really do in the off-season. Foligno they threw into the top six and I’m not really sure what they expected him to do up there.

IMO the priority at the deadline should be individual talent because that’s what you can count on with a handful of games left in the season.
 
Keep living in Groundhog Day. I’m just simply stating that regular season with this team means squat, or haven’t you been watching?
It means a lot: A good regular season will grant us entrance into a tournament for the Stanley Cup an excellent regular season will give us top seeding and home ice in that very same tournament.
 
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I disagree. Foligno was never going to do what Kampf is doing. They brought Kampf in with the express purpose of building a low event checking line around him. Something you can only really do in the off-season. Foligno they threw into the top six and I’m not really sure what they expected him to do up there.

IMO the priority at the deadline should be individual talent because that’s what you can count on with a handful of games left in the season.

I think it was the exact same idea - a guy they could trust defensively in the toughest matchups, with a nice grinding presence.
 
Nope. Still doesn’t make sense. Them taking Kerfoot and his 3.5 mil cap hit would have been a blessing.

Going 7-3-1 allows for the protection of both Kerfoot and McCann. Going the route they ultimately went meant both were available. I don't see how Seattle selects Kerfoot without a sweetener. Is it still a good idea at that point?
 
Going 7-3-1 allows for the protection of both Kerfoot and McCann. Going the route they ultimately went meant both were available. I don't see how Seattle selects Kerfoot without a sweetener. Is it still a good idea at that point?

Kerfoot would have been selected if they had a chance to do so and McCann wasn't made available.
 
Adding a piece would be good. With that cap space we get probably get a 40-50 point winger thats good defensively, gels with the team, and maybe if we're lucky have the ability to play C in case of injury
The player you’re talking about is Kerfoot.
 
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Kerfoot would have been selected if they had a chance to do so and McCann wasn't made available.
That's not a possible scenario. If McCann was protected, that means they would have been doing 7-3-1, and Kerfoot would also be protected. Which means they take Holl, we lose our only NHL-level RHD going into the season, and as we dismantle our top-5 defense, there's really no way to replace him because much worse defensemen are getting contracts worth twice as much in the offseason and we just committed an additional 3m to forward depth.

I'm not sure what's so complicated here, and why people are acting like McCann is some super valuable player. McCann's league-wide value was established in this most recent offseason at a Hallander-level prospect. We lost Hallander in the expansion draft, which is pretty much best case scenario.

If Kerfoot and McCann were switched, we'd just be sitting here looking at Kerfoot riding an increased role and unsustainable shooting percentages to higher production, and the same people would be here blasting Dubas for letting Kerfoot - the cost-controlled versatile asset who works with our team, plays PK, and played really well last playoffs - go for the guy that is only signed for 1 year, is bad defensively, and has a grand total of 3 playoff assists in his entire career.

Kerfoot is literally sitting at the same number of points as McCann, and would probably return more than we paid for McCann. It's time to let it go.
 
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That's not a possible scenario. If McCann was protected, that means they would have been doing 7-3-1, and Kerfoot would also be protected. Which means they take Holl, we lose our only NHL-level RHD going into the season, and as we dismantle our top-5 defense, there's really no way to replace him because much worse defensemen are getting contracts worth twice as much in the offseason and we just committed an additional 3m to forward depth.

I'm not sure what's so complicated here, and why people are acting like McCann is some super valuable player. McCann's league-wide value was established in this most recent offseason at a Hallander-level prospect. We lost Hallander in the expansion draft, which is pretty much best case scenario.

If Kerfoot and McCann were switched, we'd just be sitting here looking at Kerfoot riding an increased role and unsustainable shooting percentages to higher production, and the same people would be here blasting Dubas for letting Kerfoot - the cost-controlled versatile asset who works with our team, plays PK, and played really well last playoffs - go for the guy that is only signed for 1 year, is bad defensively, and has a grand total of 3 playoff assists in his entire career.

Kerfoot is literally sitting at the same number of points as McCann, and would probably return more than we paid for McCann. It's time to let it go.

While I fully agree with most of your post, saying McCann is worth Hallander and a 7th is a bit disingenuous. He was only available at that price because of the ED.
 
While I fully agree with most of your post, saying McCann is worth Hallander and a 7th is a bit disingenuous. He was only available at that price because of the ED.
It's not disingenuous. That's literally what he was traded for a few months ago. Every team had an opportunity to acquire him, including a bunch of teams where he would have been easily protected. None wanted to pay more than a Hallander-level prospect to have him on their team.
 
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