The New and really Improved , Kyle Dubas Discussion Thread

[Stamkos4life]

Fine, so then you agree it would be very unlikely for a team to offer sheet 12.5 X 8 PLUS 4 first rounders?

I may have worded that poorly.

I meant to say 11.34 x 5 is a more player friendly contract than 12.5 x 8.

Also, maybe a team would go for 12.5 x 8 but that would be the max and yeah I'd rather 12.5 x 8 any day. Imagine another 3 years of cost controlled?

 

[Stonehands1990]

11.34 x 5 is a better contract than 12.5 x 8. Dubas did just about as badly as he possibly could while giving Auston basically everything.

12.5 x 8 blows 11.634 x 5 out of the water all day every day. You buy 3 extra UFA years

 

[Stamkos4life]

I think the full 8 year term would have been better even with the higher cap hit. We'd still have another 6 years to get this right instead of a small window of 2 years plus the NTC kicking in.

Should've honestly bridged him if he wasn't willing to play fair.

Sure auston had a good season last year but with the flat cap would he really be able to get that much more?

 

[forecheck]

Knowing the jokers on the MLSE Board like I do, I believe they will never fire Dubas. He is the epitome of what they want in the next generation. He looks good in a suit. He talks the way they would like their grandkids to talk. Heck, they would be thrilled if he dated their granddaughters. What happens on the ice takes a backseat to what they want in a GM.

Sadly true.

 

[forecheck]

Can people stop saying how talented this team is !! A team is made up of 20 players not 4 .... The leafs are thin after the "core 4 " as Dubas fills the gap with minimum wage players to fill out the roster. Add to the fact that they arent this high flying team that the media and Dubas supporters have floated is that the culture built by Dubas is that of a country club run by spoiled bunch of softies who have never won anything .

Blow up this mess and move on is the only answer.

PS: 100 % This team wont make the playoffs and I said it from game 1.

 

[crowsnestmcgee]

I kinda forgot about the matthews contract. The fact that we lose him to UFA the first year he is eligible is so bad. We are going to have to trade him in his last year....

 

[4thline]

Ok.....well wouldn't 12 X 8 or even 12.5 X 8 have been better than 11 X 5?

Yes, but by how much? Again the simple point of "Throw out the comparables" was a negotiating ploy to frame the negotiation around what Matthews would get come OS time, breaking it away from "It's simple, more than Eichel, less than McDavid on an 8"

And it doesn't just play from the 8 year. Who wouldn't give 1st+1st+2nd+3rd for 2-3 years of Matthews + RFA rights?

 

[rocketman588]

Should've honestly bridged him if he wasn't willing to play fair.

Sure auston had a good season last year but with the flat cap would he really be able to get that much more?

If we're being real it is a bridge though

It does exactly what a bridge does which is walk him to being a UFA. We just paid more and got like an extra year for the pleasure

 

[daveleaf]

#FIREDUBAS


The answer is simple.

 

[The Hanging Jowl]

My issue with Dubas is a bit of an issue I have with the larger society: discarding the wisdom of old(er) people. Dubas was shadowing Lou. Yeah, Dubas said all the right things about how much he learned and stuff, but what did he do immediately after Lou left? Pretty much the opposite of everything he was taught. I'm exaggerating a bit, but he definitely did not follow Lou's protocol. Also, I'm not a fan of Babs, but Dubas went against him too and got players that Babs didn't want. Now Dubas is learning the hard way,

In other countries people respect the wisdom that comes with living on the planet for a long time. Not here.

Well stated and unfortunately, you're describing a problem I've witnessed with that generation since they first entered the workforce. Basically they all see themselves as the smartest guy in the room with almost nothing to back it up. You see it everywhere: systems that were working perfectly and someone new rolls into town and has a better idea for everything. It feels like nothing works anymore as a result. I know this will trigger some reading this but that's the way I see it.

 

[Stigma]

Well stated and unfortunately, you're describing a problem I've witnessed with that generation since they first entered the workforce. Basically they all see themselves as the smartest guy in the room with almost nothing to back it up. You see it everywhere: systems that were working perfectly and someone new rolls into town and has a better idea for everything. It feels like nothing works anymore as a result. I know this will trigger some reading this but that's the way I see it.

I see that too. It's how a lot of us acted when we were young adults, but it feels like the smartest-guy-in-the-room syndrome has increased a little in recent times. You know, feeling that your brain has discovered something that millions of others (particularly older people) haven't thought of or tried before.

 

[The Hanging Jowl]

I see that too. It's how a lot of us acted when we were young adults, but it feels like the smartest-guy-in-the-room syndrome has increased a little in recent times. You know, feeling that your brain has discovered something that millions of others (particularly older people) haven't thought of or tried before.

Yup.

 

[Stamkos4life]

If we're being real it is a bridge though

It does exactly what a bridge does which is walk him to being a UFA. We just paid more and got like an extra year for the pleasure

Yea it's basically longer bridge.

I'm fairly sure dubas gave him just about the worst contract that he could've. You would think getting super front loaded and tons of signing bonuses would bring the aav down but apparently it didn't.

 

[TheShape]

Matthews’ cap hit in isolation is fair, but overall the contract is a failure when you factor in term/NMC, always has been.

12.5 X 8 for an extra 900k a year is a no brainer, but I don’t think Matthews ever planned on re-signing 8 years here.

I said when we signed Tavares that Matthews floor would be 11m, the trickle down effect is real. If he was only willing to sign for 5 years, the cap hit shouldn’t have been a dime over 9.5.

 

[Pookie]

3 big issues created by the contracts to the 4 core:

1. Unable to resign Morgan Rielly.

2. Jack Campbell, UFA. If the Leafs have success in the post season, Jack will be a big part of it. And with success comes financial success. Potentially unable to afford him

3. Keep the core together and lose a top D-man and starting goalie? Or shed one of the core, at the risk of pissing off the other parts of the core (34) and losing them to UFA?

These are not decisions Dubas should be making if he is on the hot seat.

 

[egd27]

And it doesn't just play from the 8 year. Who wouldn't give 1st+1st+2nd+3rd for 2-3 years of Matthews + RFA rights?

How do you believe that scenario would play out?

 

[4thline]

How do you believe that scenario would play out?

Not sure I follow. Like how the hypothetical "bidding" would have happened, or if something like that happened and we matched, what would be happening now at the end of that contract?

 

[egd27]

Not sure I follow. Like how the hypothetical "bidding" would have happened, or if something like that happened and we matched, what would be happening now at the end of that contract?

What do you envision a contract with the compensation you listed looking like, and what "type" of team would be in a position to make such and offer.

 

[4thline]

What do you envision a contract with the compensation you listed looking like, and what "type" of team would be in a position to make such and offer.

Based on the rules at the time any contract 5 years or less up to ~10.54m av would have yielded that pick compensation. Any term 3 or under leaves him an RFA.

As for what teams, I think the list of teams he wouldn't want to play for would be longer than teams what wouldn't do it. Only ones I can think of are those that are already set/ competitive (Tampa) and against the cap, and even they would explore making it work.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

It is all over folks like I thought .. only question left is does Shanny go down with ship or sacrifice Dubie? .. all of you who told me Leafs were a sure top 3 team in Atlantic OMG .. they still have skill and will still fight it out for a wildcard as I said .. i think they will not make it in end due to fatal flaws in core which always come up when things get tight

 

[hotpaws]

It is all over folks like I thought .. only question left is does Shanny go down with ship or sacrifice Dubie? .. all of you who told me Leafs were a sure top 3 team in Atlantic OMG .. they still have skill and will still fight it out for a wildcard as I said .. i think they will not make it in end due to fatal flaws in core which always come up when things get tight

Shanny will chuck Dubie under the bus to save himself in a heartbeat , the only question that remains is does the board trust him to hire a new GM or have they lost faith in him and kick him to the curb along with Dubie .

 

[JT AM da real deal]

Shanny will chuck Dubie under the bus to save himself in a heartbeat , the only question that remains is does the board trust him to hire a new GM or have they lost faith in him and kick him to the curb along with Dubie .

I think he will stay if he wants to stay .. walking away from a recent 6 years deal with MLSE at 7-8M per will make him think quite a bit .. although he has saved his $$ well from being a player and his family lives in NYC so commuting to a TO condo can't be that fun for him .. he will try his best to keep Dubie and maybe he moves back to being a analytics assistant to new GM .. something is gonna happen .. sponsorships are way down this year .. tickets are not selling out .. even fanboys are not happy and occasionally these types do buy after market tickets so that does hurt a bit even if a tiny bit

 

[Stamkos4life]

I kinda forgot about the matthews contract. The fact that we lose him to UFA the first year he is eligible is so bad. We are going to have to trade him in his last year....

He has a nmc during his final year. We either have to make a decision before his final year, or take a big gamble.

 

[Stamkos4life]

It is all over folks like I thought .. only question left is does Shanny go down with ship or sacrifice Dubie? .. all of you who told me Leafs were a sure top 3 team in Atlantic OMG .. they still have skill and will still fight it out for a wildcard as I said .. i think they will not make it in end due to fatal flaws in core which always come up when things get tight

I've been told for over 3 years now how amazing these dubas led teams are. Yet we just keep getting embarrassment after embarrassment.

It is clear that these posters who still fawn over dubas have no credibility.

 

[Donnie740]

Is there anyone still remaining on this forum who actually believes Dubas has the slightest clue of how to construct a pro hockey team?

The Dubas Fan Boi brigade has disappeared faster than a fart in the wind.