The New and really Improved , Kyle Dubas Discussion Thread

[Dave92]

Dubas pulled a Burke which is to say he f***ed himself right from the get go by making a terminal mistake which had long term consequences and doomed his tenure to failure .

Burke traded two firsts when he should have been rebuilding and had to try to race against time to do a reverse draft rebuild before he was turfed .

Dubas blew his cap brains out by signing JT when we didn't need a C and left himself without adequate cap space to fill the roster with quality pieces around an extremely promising young core .

it's truly remarkable how incompetent Dubas is by f***ing the situation he walked into

I think Tavares was fine and not signing him would be terrible asset management, also his Nylander contract was well handled in retrospect. RFA Marner was incredibly valuable and a trade could have possibly solidified the D on it's own but Dubas couldn't bring himself to give up one of his shiny toys and destroyed his salary structure to sign him.

 

[hotpaws]

I think Tavares was fine and not signing him would be terrible asset management, also his Nylander contract was well handled in retrospect. RFA Marner was incredibly valuable and a trade could have possibly solidified the D on it's own but Dubas couldn't bring himself to give up one of his shiny toys and destroyed his salary structure to sign him.

what would have been terrible asset mgmt would have been to sign JT then trade a player 7 yrs younger

i don't get this JT love , people act like he's a Crosby level player and ignore how our team didn't improve with him and how the Islanders did the second he bolted

 

[Stamkos4life]

I still think Dubas is probably better than whoever MLSE would replace him with.

But I'll never get the Jared McCann thing. Another point tonight. It's insane to me they prioritized our depth over him.

Doubtful.

I'm fairly certain most gms who inherit a 105 point team with multiple rfa stars would have at least 1 series win after 3 years.

Why would dubas refuse a free draft pick from Edmonton?

Why would he trade Kadri for barrie?

Why would he keep sparks over mcbackup?

Why did he overpay matthews, marner and Nylander?

Why has he traded so many 1st round picks?

It honestly seems like intentional sabotage. The guy inherited the most promising leaf team I have ever seen and ruined it in just 3 years.

 

[acrobaticgoalie]

what would have been terrible asset mgmt would have been to sign JT then trade a player 7 yrs younger

i don't get this JT love , people act like he's a Crosby level player and ignore how our team didn't improve with him and how the Islanders did the second he bolted

I agree that our results are no better.

The Isles got better after he left because they hired the best coach in the league who has always had great defensive systems as well as adding the best goalie coach in the league. Their defensive stats as well as their goalie stats prove that. All of Lehner, Varlamov, Greiss, Sorokin were all producing around or above a .920sv% once those two took over. They didn't get better by subtracting an 80 pt player. If they still had him they would have a 1, 2, 3 of Barzal, JT and Pageau down the middle and would have been even better the last 3 years.

 

[acrobaticgoalie]

If Dubas and Co. were to get canned, who would be available as top candidates?

Lombardi, McPhee, McCrimmon?

 

[hotpaws]

I agree that our results are no better.

The Isles got better after he left because they hired the best coach in the league who has always had great defensive systems as well as adding the best goalie coach in the league. Their defensive stats as well as their goalie stats prove that. All of Lehner, Varlamov, Greiss, Sorokin were all producing around or above a .920sv% once those two took over. They didn't get better by subtracting an 80 pt player. If they still had him they would have a 1, 2, 3 of Barzal, JT and Pageau down the middle and would have been even better the last 3 years.

so we added JT and got worse but if they kept him and his 11m cap hit they would have been even better ?

sorry don't think so for 2 reasons

1 - JT would never buy into or just half ass Trotz' system since it would lower his production

2 - he's not worth 11m and that money could be better spent elsewhere

 

[Stamkos4life]

so we added JT and got worse but if they kept him and his 11m cap hit they would have been even better ?

sorry don't think so for 2 reasons

1 - JT would never buy into or just half ass Trotz' system since it would lower his production

2 - he's no worth 11m and that money could be better spent elsewhere

Yeah that posters logic doesn't add up.

With JT, the islanders never made it past the 2nd round.

JT leaves and they make it to the semi finals twice.

 

[hotpaws]

Yeah that posters logic doesn't add up.

With JT, the islanders never made it past the 2nd round.

JT leaves and they make it to the semi finals twice.

it gets even better

- in 9 yrs with JT they made the playoffs 3 times and won 1 rd

- in 3 yrs without JT they made the playoffs 3 times , won 5 rds , a play in rd and came within 1 win of knocking off the Bolts and probably winning the cup last yr

but yea they really miss Captain Cliche

 

[killer1980]

So which GM’s are the best candidates to be his replacement?

I believe about 85% of people on this board could do a better job. I know I could.

 

[hotpaws]

I believe about 85% of people on this board could do a better job. I know I could.

it would be hard to do any worse

and i have a good group of buddies that would love to milk MLSE like Dubie and his Soo beasties are doing , lol

 

[Stamkos4life]

Dubas inherited a 105 point team (franchise record) with lots of cap space and potential. Every single gm in the league would kill to have an opportunity like that.

During the off-season of 2019, some of the posters here couldn't stop themselves from raving about how amazing the team was that dubas assembled.

I tried telling them that his trades and signings weren't that special and was promptly told I wasn't a real leaf fan.

We all know how that season ended. Lost to our own 40 yo emergency back up and then lost in the playoff QUALIFIER to a jackets team that didn't have their #1 goalie, #1 player and #1 center.

I thought that series loss would make the dubas fan boys stop being so zealous but they just went into over drive.

Then we go to the off-season of 2020 and these same dubas fan boys repeat the same old lines about how amazing this team is.

We get a once in a lifetime gift of a North division with one of the easiest paths to the finals. We face against the Habs, a team who shouldn't even have made the PO, and lose in embarrassing fashion.

The dubas fan boys have harassed and mocked anyone that disagreed with their wonder boy for 3 years. At this point, they have no credibility.

The best we can hope for is that dubas is fired before he can do anymore damage and we finally get another good gm. I wonder if Lou would be interested in making a return?

 

[AvroArrow]

If Dubas and Co. were to get canned, who would be available as top candidates?

Lombardi, McPhee, McCrimmon?

I'd hire someone from these boards over Dubas to be quite honest with you. Literally ANYONE would do a better job than this clown.

 

[usernamezrhardtodo]

I see this all the time that Lou would have gotten the 3 young stars to lower contracts but what makes anyone think that, based on the big list of overpriced contracts that he himself has given out?

He can over pay some guys going into UFA because they have leverage...but he has a history of not over paying any RFA's....look at the NYI....they were supposedly in cap hell a few years ago with all the bad contracts (Martin...Komorov) but somehow he managed to be ok.

 

[usernamezrhardtodo]

I don't think this reads as you intended.

Fixed it with a 'Don't'...thanks for the heads up.

 

[acrobaticgoalie]

so we added JT and got worse but if they kept him and his 11m cap hit they would have been even better ?

sorry don't think so for 2 reasons

1 - JT would never buy into or just half ass Trotz' system since it would lower his production

2 - he's not worth 11m and that money could be better spent elsewhere

So the year before Trotz and Korn they gave up the most goals in the league at 296 and were a mess. The following year they had the least Goals against at 196 and went deep in the playoffs. So that whole team bought in to his structure but JT wouldn't? JT has had Selke votes in the past and isn't a one dimensional player. He would have fit in in Trotz' system and been a net front player that would have helped wit their goal scoring.

The part about his cap hit is fair and he is not worth 11M. If they had kept him they wouldn't have so many 5M players on their roster.

Signing him hurt our cap situation no doubt and he isn't producing right now but our problems are much bigger than him alone. This team is losing to fringe NHL teams with way less talent and because they are mentally weak and don't show up. This team should be winning games despite having lost depth.

 

[usernamezrhardtodo]

I agree that our results are no better.

The Isles got better after he left because they hired the best coach in the league who has always had great defensive systems as well as adding the best goalie coach in the league. Their defensive stats as well as their goalie stats prove that. All of Lehner, Varlamov, Greiss, Sorokin were all producing around or above a .920sv% once those two took over. They didn't get better by subtracting an 80 pt player. If they still had him they would have a 1, 2, 3 of Barzal, JT and Pageau down the middle and would have been even better the last 3 years.

Or...maybe JT is not a great Captain. I think Spezza epitomizes the word Captain with the way he almost always comes through with a clutch goal to get us going. When has JT done that? Seriously...when?

The issue is in part due to the fact everyone on the team knew JT was going to be captain the minute they signed him...they just had to let the optics look ok by waiting. Everyone knew it...they parachuted a guy in to 'lead' them. That is not good for the dressing room. I am not a Reilly fan...but if your going to give the C to someone other than AM...it should have been Reilly.

 

[Kalaish26]

One thing about Kyle Dubas that I see him getting praise for around here is his drafting, which always confused me. Now I understand that a lot of prospects drafted under Dubas have increased their value by having strong post draft seasons, but should we not judge his drafting based on the ones that actually make an impact in the NHL? Personally, I think it is a bit early to praise him for his drafting, as this is the first year a prospect drafted under him has made the team as a regular (Sandin).

People were praising Mark Hunter for some of his drafting when guys like Andrew Nielsen had strong post draft seasons, and we all know how a majority of his draft picks turned out.

 

[supermann_98]

Any chance we get news about the cap going up either in the off season or next?

As much as Dubas screwed up the cap overpaying Tavares, Marner and even Matthews (term taken into consideration) ... he overpaid with the thought that the cap would continually grow 2-3 million a year as it had pre-Covid.

Personally if I'm Shanahan I would tie his hands on trading prospects and picks in the immediate future, just stop him from mortgaging the teams future assets just to (try to) save this season.

If the team continues to collapse next off season it's time for Dubas to go. He created this mess of a roster and doubled down on them after they've choked the last 3 playoffs away. THIS is how his players thank him for that support.

I simply do not trust him to trade away any of the core that HE signed, his view of these players differs significantly from how other GM's view them around the league. No other team wants Marner at $11m in a trade, so we're gonna have to retain salary or throw in a sweetener ... with Dubas that sweetener is probably a 1st.

 

[killer1980]

Our pretty boys are used to being adored because of who they are not what they've done. "Looked at me! I'm wonderful." They stopped trying when it was apparent they weren't as good as their press clippings and Instagram pages. Matthews was a star in Switzerland, Switzerland? My grandmother was a 2nd team all-star there. He floats and fires the puck at will. He passes as often to the other team as he does his own. He had his career year in the worst division the NHL ever had. And remember, Matthews number 1 ranked Swiss team, Zurich, got swept in 4 games in the first round of the playoffs by the number 8 team, Bern, that was barely .500 . Matthews got no goals in that quarter-final. Is it really a surprise he has disappeared in the NHL playoffs? Shouldn't Dubas and his magic analytics sniffed that one out?

You can be sure they are all getting together to blame the coach just like they did with Babcock, We all know the real culprit is Dubas who recognizes talent as well as Howie Mandel. He sold the farm and kept the lousy, lazy, self-entitled horses. Shameful.

 

[4thline]

...but he has a history of not over paying any RFA's....

He actually has zero history of successfully handling a long term contract negotation with a high end RFA forward in the cap era. Bridged Parise out of town to drastically overpay Zajac, bridged Barzal and Beauvillier. Also hasn't drafted one since Parise (except Matthews)

 

[hotpaws]

So the year before Trotz and Korn they gave up the most goals in the league at 296 and were a mess. The following year they had the least Goals against at 196 and went deep in the playoffs. So that whole team bought in to his structure but JT wouldn't? JT has had Selke votes in the past and isn't a one dimensional player. He would have fit in in Trotz' system and been a net front player that would have helped wit their goal scoring.

The part about his cap hit is fair and he is not worth 11M. If they had kept him they wouldn't have so many 5M players on their roster.

Signing him hurt our cap situation no doubt and he isn't producing right now but our problems are much bigger than him alone. This team is losing to fringe NHL teams with way less talent and because they are mentally weak and don't show up. This team should be winning games despite having lost depth.

They used JT a season or two on the pk and he got tossed some votes because of it but he's never been good defensively .

JT has always been about himself and his production , sure he says the right things in the media but any time he went into any type of slump he would cheat even more .

Totz' system works if everyone buys into it , once one guy starts half assing it chasing points the system gets weaker and that combined with JT's cap hit is the reason there better off without him .

a player making 10m plus needs to do more than vulture around the net picking up points , they need to be able to control the flow of the play and JT has never been fast enough to be able to do this and that's why a team would be better off using his cap hit spread out in other areas of need

 

[definedMF]

what would have been terrible asset mgmt would have been to sign JT then trade a player 7 yrs younger

i don't get this JT love , people act like he's a Crosby level player and ignore how our team didn't improve with him and how the Islanders did the second he bolted

To add to that, Dubas went out and set a precedent for a waning Tavares paying him 11 million, setting precedent for the rest of our core. Sure he took a discount but making a lesser mistake over a bigger mistake (SJ offering more) is STILL a mistake.

A true team develops their top 2 centers, usually in similar age range to the core. We took the easy way out and now are paying for it.

 

[Stamkos4life]

He actually has zero history of successfully handling a long term contract negotation with a high end RFA forward in the cap era. Bridged Parise out of town to drastically overpay Zajac, bridged Barzal and Beauvillier. Also hasn't drafted one since Parise (except Matthews)

Somehow, according to the dubas fan boys, Lou is always making mistakes and dubas is always a couple steps ahead of the other gms.

But then we get to the ice where the game is actually played and the Lou led team keeps dumping on the dubas led team.

It's almost like they don't really know what they are talking about. Shocking, I know.

 

[4thline]

Somehow, according to the dubas fan boys, Lou is always making mistakes and dubas is always a couple steps ahead of the other gms.

But then we get to the ice where the game is actually played and the Lou led team keeps dumping on the dubas led team.

It's almost like they don't really know what they are talking about. Shocking, I know.

Blah blah blah, nothing that actually contradicts what I said, because it's factual.

 

[4thline]

To add to that, Dubas went out and set a precedent for a waning Tavares paying him 11 million, setting precedent for the rest of our core. .

Nope, Matthews whole negotiation strategy was that he was unicorn with no comparables, JT didn't play into it. And Marners was that he want's whatever Matthews gets