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The New and really Improved , Kyle Dubas Discussion Thread

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I'd also like to comment on this:

hockeywiz542 said:
As one team executive told me this week, he thinks if Jake Muzzin is healthy in 2020, the Leafs beat Columbus and if Muzzin stays healthy last spring, the Leafs hold on to beat Montreal.

Which is to say, Muzzin getting hurt in back-to-back playoffs is no one’s fault.
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I don't really disagree with this all.

BUT... anyone who has followed pro sports for any significant time, and doesn't go around denying the cold hard reality of entropy, would not count on Muzzin staying healthy for any playoffs. Solid players break down eventually and earlier when they've spent their pro careers smashing their bodies against other big bodies. I admire players like Muzzin (and Simmonds) but let's get real, he came here after his best years had passed. Chances were always very high that he wouldn't his best self in any playoffs with this team.
 
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I really think Dubas has changed a lot since taking the job.

Didn't like him before, but at least in terms of roster decisions, he's put together a cup contender

It's up to coach and players to deliver
 
justashadowof said:
I'd also like to comment on this:



I don't really disagree with this all.

BUT... anyone who has followed pro sports for any significant time, and doesn't go around denying the cold hard reality of entropy, would not count on Muzzin staying healthy for any playoffs. Solid players break down eventually and earlier when they've spent their pro careers smashing their bodies against other big bodies. I admire players like Muzzin (and Simmonds) but let's get real, he came here after his best years had passed. Chances were always very high that he wouldn't his best self in any playoffs with this team.
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Eh against Columbus it wasn't even a real injury - it was covid precautions that kept him out.
 
zeke said:
Eh against Columbus it wasn't even a real injury - it was covid precautions that kept him out.
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What?
muzzin-stretcher-injury.png
 
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zeke said:
"Ummm...was Freddie Andersen not part of the core not that long ago? Kind of a hollow statement in that context. "I believe in the core until they're not the core.""
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Weak. The point was the core is malleable and Dubas knows it and nothing should be taken away from his comments that he's sticking with the core. The core will be adjusted as necessary.
 
Sypher04 said:
it looked worse than it ended up being. He was ready to go but couldn’t get back in the bubble in time to play
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I guess "as a result of his injury" means something different to me.
 
The Hanging Jowl said:
Weak. The point was the core is malleable and Dubas knows it and nothing should be taken away from his comments that he's sticking with the core. The core will be adjusted as necessary.
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Fred was never part of any core Dubas ever talked about - and no goalie ever would be.
 
Duffman955 said:
Didn't like him before, but at least in terms of roster decisions, he's put together a cup contender
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He has not put together a Cup contender. How can I say that? They have yet to get even close to competing for the Cup. Also take issue with "put together" as he was gifted two franchise players and signed another that wanted so badly to return to his home town he left money on the table. Dubas also inherited Reilly and Nylander. His meaningful contributions: Signing Brodie and the Muzzin/Campbell trade (both of which I give him an A+ for). That is really it.

What he has done is what everyone has been correctly saying for the past few years: Boxed himself in with $40M to his stars which has not left him with enough cap space to fill out the roster with cup-calibre depth.

Tampa Bay was top-heavy as well, stellar blueline and goaltending but it wasn't until they brought in a 3rd line that could contribute did they win. Caps were the same. There are teams that are exceptions to that rule, but what we have seen the last two post-seasons from the Leafs is that there isn't enough depth if M&M are shut down by opposing teams.

So this Summer Dubas recycles the plan from last off-season but with an arguably weaker supporting cast. There are maybe 3-4 players projected to be in the lineup that are still heading towards their peak performance, the rest have plateaued or are in decline.

After the debacle against Montreal, added to 4 previous first-round exits I don't see how Shanahan looks at what Kyle did this Summer and doesn't scratch his head thinking "Tell me again how this roster is supposed to be better and should give me more optimism than the previous five versions?"
 
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acrobaticgoalie said:
Vasilievskiy isn't part of Tampa's core? Hellebuyck?
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Not considering a goalie part of your core would be foolish and uneducated.

It's the most important position in hockey. Damn good reason why a model franchise like Tampa contributed a lot of their cap towards a goalie.
 
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IPS said:
Not considering a goalie part of your core would be foolish and uneducated.

It's the most important position in hockey. Damn good reason why a model franchise like Tampa contributed a lot of their cap towards a goalie.
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They contributed that to their goalie because he's awesome, not because "goalies are important".
 
IPS said:
But would he be good enough to be part of Dubas' core?!
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Possible. But I doubt dubas would sign any goalie to that contract.

And remember, TB needed some amazing Cap luck last year to keep their roster together after his contract kicked in.
 
zeke said:
Possible. But I doubt dubas would sign any goalie to that contract.

And remember, TB needed some amazing Cap luck last year to keep their roster together after his contract kicked in.
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Every single GM in the league would accept Vasy as part of their core, atleast I definitely think so anyway.

Tampa needed the luck to make the cap work but they still made the decision to lock Vasy in.
 
IPS said:
Every single GM in the league would accept Vasy as part of their core, atleast I definitely think so anyway.

Tampa needed the luck to make the cap work but they still made the decision to lock Vasy in.
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We'll see how it works out for them now that they actually have to deal with his cap ramifications. He better be legit elite.
 
zeke said:
True, there can be exceptions. But we never had a goalie like that.
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Did we have a Vezina goalie? No, but up until this past season he was easily a top 10 goalie in the world and anytime that you have a goalie that you can expect to get you 30+ wins a season, you consider him apart of your core till he isn't.
zeke said:
They contributed that to their goalie because he's awesome, not because "goalies are important".
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Pretty much every one in sports considers hockey goalies the most important position in sports. That and Quarterback. We just used Vasi and Hellebuyck as examples. You know how hard it is to find goalies that dominant and consistent. Most GMs say you have to build from the net out.

If Campbell doesn't repeat what he did last year and Mrazek doesnt have a decent year, we're screwed. All of Woll, Scott, Akhtyamov and Petruzzelli are all at least 2 years away from being NHLers, none are blue chippers and not that promising. If we don't have a decent starting goalie, our core is not taking us anywhere.
 
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Muzzin is a great trade for Dubas, don't know why some is denying that.
Like all GMs, Dubas so far is hit and miss. But one thing for certain, you can't label the Leafs as contenders. They have not even make it past the 1st round for the past few years. If the Oilers or Nucks have our playoffs records for the past few years and their fans say they are contenders, most of you will be laughing your heads off.

I think goalie is part of the core but like any other players in the core, they could be replace. Can we consider Campbell part of our core, pretty sure most of you would say no at this point, but if Leafs wins the Cup with him in net, you guys will probably say he is the core.
Funny how some here says goalies aint part of the core and act like goalies are not important, yet will always go to stats and stated that goaltending let the Leafs down and Leafs got beat by other teams goaltending in the playoffs or else Leafs would have advanced.
 
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Pookie said:
well ok then.

if one team executive told you this then this must be a fact.

But it’s more.

Clairvoyance. Future Telling. And lack of free will.

All proven by one team executive.


This is journalism now?
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Huh?

He didn't report it as a proven fact, he just said what somebody told him. Why are you so butt-hurt about it?
 
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