The New and Improved , Kyle Dubas Discussion Thread

[zeke]

and lucky for us Dubie wasn’t the GM when we drafted those players because judging by his track record he would have traded those picks

For sure.

Of course, Dubas draft record is hilariously better than Lou's in both TOR and NYI combined, even though Lou had higher picks.

 

[The Hanging Jowl]

and I guess that’s also not on Dubie even though he hired him

I literally said those words like 4 posts above this.

 

[ULF_55]

and lucky for us Dubie wasn’t the GM when we drafted those players because judging by his track record he would have traded those picks

And could have missed out on a Tyler Biggs, or Frederik Gauthier, or perhaps a Tyler Seguin?

 

[SnizzNasty88]

Part of me is hoping the Leafs don't make the playoffs this season just so we can gas this absolute fraud and pathetic excuse of a GM.

 

[zeke]

You won't find an exact comparison as there aren't many teams which have had expectations as high as the leafs

Why have the Leafs had such high expectations placed on them?

 

[The Hanging Jowl]

But it’s a 7 game series? Montréal elevated their game and found a way to win in crunch time… 3 straight games.

They didn't elevate their game so much as adjusted and suffocated our offense. Our guy, Mr. "We don't see the need to match lines" didn't adjust. And even with *that* catastrophic mistake, one little bounce and we may be talking about a Leafs finals appearance.

I think it’s better to evaluate the match in the back half of a series once teams have already seen the other and are able to make adjustments and better prepare. The teams that win the balance are usually the better team IMO.

If we have a 7 lap race, I wouldn’t really feel good about leading the first 4 if you came back to pass and beat me for laps 5, 6, and 7… especially if this was a preliminary heat with still 3 more potential races after this.

OK but I blame Keefe for this. The only way I would blame Dubas is for hiring Keefe.

 

[Dekes For Days]

The series’ get harder and harder

Sometimes. Sometimes they get easier.

Nobody ever goes from missing the playoffs or losing in the first round over and over to suddenly winning it all. It just doesn’t happen like that.

You should tell that to the LA Kings.

 

[hotpaws]

And could have missed out on a Tyler Biggs, or Frederik Gauthier, or perhaps a Tyler Seguin?

I don’t remember T-Buggie being rated first overall like Mathews but maybe be my memory isn’t as good as yours .

 

[ULF_55]

I'm sure he's well more aware of his own weaknesses, blind-spots, and limitations as a manager, now...

To the fanbase's detriment he probably wasn't when he first took on the job.

Yeah, he was green.

Most GM's aren't that successful, when that young.

Heck, Lamoriello was 52 before he won his first Cup, 8 years after being named GM.

I think they could have overcome the Tavares injury if ... 1 goal.

 

[justashadowof]

and lucky for us Dubie wasn’t the GM when we drafted those players because judging by his track record he would have traded those picks

C'mon now. It would have been a genius move to move down in the Matthews' draft. Dubas could've turned that pick into the entirety of the 2016 2nd and 3rd rounds.

 

[ULF_55]

I don’t remember T-Buggie being rated first overall like Mathews but maybe be my memory isn’t as good as yours .

Do you remember Dubas trading 1st. round picks while being miles out of the playoffs, or a bottom feeder?

 

[hotpaws]

Do you remember Dubas trading 1st. round picks while being miles out of the playoffs, or a bottom feeder?

He never had the opportunity since he was a handed a quality team and Burke was praised by 70/80 % of this board for that deal .

 

[ULF_55]

He was never given the opportunity and Burke was praised by 70/80 % of this board for that deal .

Yeah, but probably the same percentage loved him and his "a rebuild doesn't have to take 5 years ..."

Of course I'd guess things would be worse today, rebuilds can be done in a couple drafts ... or you're gone.

 

[Mess]

I don't know if a GM's tenure is strictly tied to a time duration or X playoff appearances, more so like failing to meet expectations, which depending on a franchise's goals could be anything. That said, I don't know if another first round exit would necessarily mean the end of Dubas either.

In the past we have seen MLSE use home gate receipts from minimum home games in the playoffs as the floor for expectations to measure a GMs success or progress. The regular season is where you pay your player's salaries and then when the playoffs begin teams begin to measure profit.

That said Toronto/MLSE is getting very little return for paying 3 players $11 mil dollars a season and so does that reflect on the players or the GM that gave them those contracts and the team assembled with them, and around them, which can only be measured in $$ real dollars in profit based on playoff game return on investment?

I would have serious doubts any owner paying players that amount would be happy, bowing out in the 1st round, with the only thing worse being not making the playoffs at all. That kind of investment is almost buying a playoff spot essentially using your financial clout, when competing against budget and other smaller market teams that couldn't afford to pay their players at much even if they wanted to.

However you might be right that only missing the playoffs altogether might be a bridge to far for this core and this GM to continue on status quo without consequences by ownership to appease their own stock and shareholders without playoff gate receipts returning on their investments.

 

[Twine Tickler]

Part of me is hoping the Leafs don't make the playoffs this season just so we can gas this absolute fraud and pathetic excuse of a GM.

part of me wants us to gas this "absolute fraud and pathetic excuse of a GM" so that this fanbase can remember what that type of GM is actually like.

 

[SnizzNasty88]

Yep.

Lou inherited the best group of ELC talent in the league, and completely wasted it.

Kyle inherited a team with no impact ELC talent at all - he inherited a group of elite talent that needed to be paid.

Lou had a far more advantageous situation.

Sweet Lou also got so many picks for the Leafs while trading garbage players for them, a very good starting goalie, signed Kadri and Rielly to great deals and made the Leafs tougher to play against.

Dubass could have signed Marner before the 2018-19 season when his agent wanted $9M but neglected it and decided to wait, signed Matthews for the lowest term and highest AAV possible as well. Dubass also could have traded Gardiner coming off a career year but chose not to even though we all knew that season was a clear outlier for Gardiner. Dubass is an abomination. If this team was under Sweet Lou, there's no way we have 5 straight first round exits. Not a chance.

 

[All Mod Cons]

Sorry, you are creating a Dubas fan club? Or is there one already? You have a problem with facts? I am not sure why you are quoting me.

Facts are that Lou's team have gone further than Kyle's team since Kyle took over.

The aim of the game is to go as far as possible. Lou has seemed to have done more with less talent.

Maybe, as Leafs fans, we need to re-evaluate how we think a roster should be composed and where the money needs to be allocated.

 

[justashadowof]

Rebuild regimes should be put on tighter leashes. After a team bottoms out, a proper rebuild should see a modest rise immediately to culminating in playoff qualification in 3 to 4 years. Clean house if there isn't earlier progress otherwise a franchise ends up wasting an entire decade.

 

[Dekes For Days]

The aim of the game is to go as far as possible.

No, the aim of the game is to win the cup.

Maybe, as Leafs fans, we need to re-evaluate how we think a roster should be composed and where the money needs to be allocated.

I don't think allocating money to dead cap and overpaid bottom-six players is the answer.

 

[justashadowof]

Facts are that Lou's team have gone further than Kyle's team since Kyle took over.

The aim of the game is to go as far as possible. Lou has seemed to have done more with less talent.

Maybe, as Leafs fans, we need to re-evaluate how we think a roster should be composed and where the money needs to be allocated.

If only there were fans and NHL hockey people who have been talking about the need to create a balanced roster that doesn't rely on mercenaries year to year. /s

 

[hotpaws]

part of me wants us to gas this "absolute fraud and pathetic excuse of a GM" so that this fanbase can remember what that type of GM is actually like.

You could have been named GM and the results would not have been any worse than what Dubie has produced .

it’s shocking how many people ignore the situation he walked into compared to previous GM’s

 

[SnizzNasty88]

Dubass is one of the worst GMs in the league. Who coughs up a first rounder for an injured third line player? That is the definition of insanity. That alone is a deplorable offense, nevermind the terrible contracts, Garret Sparks, Denis Malgin, Kadri for Kerfoot and a year of Barrie, and thinking advanced stats are the way to evaluate a player.

 

[Stephen]

In the past we have seen MLSE use home gate receipts from minimum home games in the playoffs as the floor for expectations to measure a GMs success or progress. The regular season is where you pay your player's salaries and then when the playoffs begin teams begin to measure profit.

That said Toronto/MLSE is getting very little return for paying 3 players $11 mil dollars a season and so does that reflect on the players or the GM that gave them those contracts and the team assembled with them, and around them, which can only be measured in $$ real dollars in profit based on playoff game return on investment?

I would have serious doubts any owner paying players that amount would be happy, bowing out in the 1st round, with the only thing worse being not making the playoffs at all. That kind of investment is almost buying a playoff spot essentially using your financial clout, when competing against budget and other smaller market teams that couldn't afford to pay their players at much even if they wanted to.

However you might be right that only missing the playoffs altogether might be a bridge to far for this core and this GM to continue on status quo without consequences by ownership to appease their own stock and shareholders without playoff gate receipts returning on their investments.

I’m not sure I would support a regime change with a 180 degree mandate, since those kind of projects are expensive as hell too. But it would be interesting to get a tally on all the salary retention, buyouts, and bill for Robidas Island and Mike Babcock’s firing to get a sense of how much money has been spent during the Shanahan era.

 

[ULF_55]

In the past we have seen MLSE use home gate receipts from minimum home games in the playoffs as the floor for expectations to measure a GMs success or progress. The regular season is where you pay your player's salaries and then when the playoffs begin teams begin to measure profit.

That said Toronto/MLSE is getting very little return for paying 3 players $11 mil dollars a season and so does that reflect on the players or the GM that gave them those contracts and the team assembled with them, and around them, which can only be measured in $$ real dollars in profit based on playoff game return on investment?

I would have serious doubts any owner paying players that amount would be happy, bowing out in the 1st round, with the only thing worse being not making the playoffs at all. That kind of investment is almost buying a playoff spot essentially using your financial clout, when competing against budget and other smaller market teams that couldn't afford to pay their players at much even if they wanted to.

However you might be right that only missing the playoffs altogether might be a bridge to far for this core and this GM to continue on status quo without consequences by ownership to appease their own stock and shareholders without playoff gate receipts returning on their investments.

Yeah, the return on those players hasn't really made a huge positive impact on playoff revenue.

Funny thing is Dubas is known for liking small skilled players, so wouldn't marner have been a Dubas pick if he was in charge of drafting this year?

Of course with no fans in the building would they have made any more money this year by going all the way?

Tavares was only slightly worse than the other double digits.

 

[All Mod Cons]

Dubass is one of the worst GMs in the league. Who coughs up a first rounder for an injured third line player? That is the definition of insanity. That alone is a deplorable offense, nevermind the terrible contracts, Garret Sparks, Denis Malgin, Kadri for Kerfoot and a year of Barrie, and thinking advanced stats are the way to evaluate a player.

Don't forget hiring Dusty Imoo.

Then firing him.

All the good the old regime did on restoring the culture, and how the organization is perceived, has been undone in two short years.

Losing to a zamboni driver, having your best player not tell you about a possible legal case, trading 1sts for injured players.

Kyle's done quite the job to take us back 5 years.