ACC1224
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The New and Improved , Kyle Dubas Discussion Thread
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I never attributed "credit" to anyone. I simply stated Lou Lam did not inherit Auston Matthews when he took over as GM of the Leafs in 2015.
Why you find that so difficult to accept is somewhat puzzling.
Me either.
What a world!
I occasionally wonder what color the sky is in their worlds.
Racer88
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I think it is funny that people keep saying Lou had the Leafs' best season record ever while ignoring they had a better year this year.
It is very simple.
Lou’s job was to change the culture and rebuild the Leafs.
Under Lou, Leafs changed from a bottom 5 teams to a 100 pts team.
A lot of that had to do with guys already drafted-Brown, Willie, Marner, Reilly and then having the luck to win AM. Lou did traded for Andersen-who was fantastic for the first few years, and traded away quite a few rentals for tons of picks.
Having said that, beside AM, I don’t think anyone drafted during Lou’s reign is playing with the Leafs or in the NHL. Zaitsev and Marleau contract were really bad but the Kadri and Reilly contract were really good. Letting own rentals walk for free were bad but getting over 100pts were good.
Dubas coming in as GM, the expectations is doing better than Lou, which is advancing further in the playoffs. Which he has not done it yet.
However, he did cleaned up bad contracts while also signed three 10mil plus contracts. He rebuild the farms to the point where at least two of them played for the Leafs and the others are looking more promising than the ones drafted by Lou.
Lou’s job was to change the culture and rebuild the Leafs.
Under Lou, Leafs changed from a bottom 5 teams to a 100 pts team.
A lot of that had to do with guys already drafted-Brown, Willie, Marner, Reilly and then having the luck to win AM. Lou did traded for Andersen-who was fantastic for the first few years, and traded away quite a few rentals for tons of picks.
Having said that, beside AM, I don’t think anyone drafted during Lou’s reign is playing with the Leafs or in the NHL. Zaitsev and Marleau contract were really bad but the Kadri and Reilly contract were really good. Letting own rentals walk for free were bad but getting over 100pts were good.
Dubas coming in as GM, the expectations is doing better than Lou, which is advancing further in the playoffs. Which he has not done it yet.
However, he did cleaned up bad contracts while also signed three 10mil plus contracts. He rebuild the farms to the point where at least two of them played for the Leafs and the others are looking more promising than the ones drafted by Lou.
4th worst again doesn’t get them a franchise centre.
How do you artificially sewer your value to bottom out while still maintaining infrastructure and not tearing it all down?
They didn’t want to get Marty Gerber’d.
If tanking for the top pick then making the playoffs the following year were easy, why doesn’t everyone on the bubble or near the bottom do it?
They didn’t play a single top 10 team all year, regular season or playoffs.
People don’t ignore it but context matters.
Okay, how about when Dubas put his coach in place there paced for the same as the all-time record?
Racer88
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ACC1224
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They're just trying to keep it real.
NHL Records
They did have a decent year in the watered down COVID division.
Perhaps this is the year they top 105 points.
Some don't care much about pace when you consider the greatest challenge being to maintain success over a long period of time. A few months of regular season hockey buoyed by a significantly more successful honeymoon stage and a watered down COVID North division isn't particularly impressive.
And specific to the coach - when we watch him get completely outclassed in consecutive matchup scenarios when the stakes are raised, it's really hard to care about what his team does in stretches of the regular season.
The Hanging Jowl
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There were very genuine discussions about taking Laine over Matthews. You can't dismiss it that easily. Did he draft him or not?
Were there really?
I know the Finnish hype train went nuclear with the Laine hype and the anti-Leaf segment of the hockey world jumped right on it too.
ACC1224
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The Hanging Jowl
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I think the discussions were about as serious as Eichel vs McDavid discussions.
I always thought it was more media hype than anything else, and it was more obvious that year because we just went through the same thing the year before when clearly McDavid was superior.
The Hanging Jowl
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Or Rask vs. Raycroft or Kordic vs. Courtnall? You do realize this organization has made colossal blunders in the past right? Lou drafted him, he absolutely didn't inherit him. Fact, not debatable.
I never debated that, I am simply stating the perceived closeness of the prospects was more media than anything.
These are the same people that had people questioning if Edmonton was taking McDavid.
Pacing and achieving are not the same. As it stands today, the 105 points is a single season record.
Yet another fact being denied through rationalization.
Kid Kyle and Keefe should have an opportunity to eclipse the record this upcoming season, hopefully they can do so.
The Hanging Jowl
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There was very genuine discussion regarding taking Laine over Matthews. Not hack stuff. We're all looking back with hindsight but I bet there are people reading this right now that wondered at the time. The linchpin argument was a centre was more valuable than a winger. This happened, I'm not inventing it. Lou made the right choice and drafted a player I truly consider the most talented Leaf in my lifetime. Saying he inherited him is garbage.
zeke
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Ah, so you are quibbling with my choice of words in order to avoid the actual relevant point.
I see.
zeke
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WTFMAN99
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It's a very delicate line to follow, you don't want to spend too long in suck city.
Eichel was a a hell of a talent that they landed but they never properly built around him...or maybe they did and it was the culture? Lehner, ROR, Zadorov, Bogosian, have all left and had more success.
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