The New and Improved , Kyle Dubas Discussion Thread

[Sypher04]

I’m not one to get super vocal or cocky with other fanbases, so I agree with the idea of staying humble. But I don’t think that really has much of anything to do with whether we actually are as good as or better than Boston.

Tampa is still the class of our division. I think most people agree here, even if a step back is expected.

Toronto/Florida/Boston seems like a pick your poison type deal but they are all similar tier.

No one else in the division is relevant

 

[Gary Nylund]

8 years at 11.75M full NMC, signing bonuses, structure etc anyway he wants

Marner, 8 years at 10.5M - ditto signing bonuses structure etc...provided his ego can handle that it's not as much as what Matthews makes.

I doubt Marner will take a pay cut but I'm good with a small raise if we don't go over 11M. This is assuming that he keeps producing in the regular season and more importantly, improves his playoff performance.

 

[Gary Nylund]

I’m not one to get super vocal or cocky with other fanbases, so I agree with the idea of staying humble. But I don’t think that really has much of anything to do with whether we actually are as good as or better than Boston.

Tampa is still the class of our division. I think most people agree here, even if a step back is expected.

Toronto/Florida/Boston seems like a pick your poison type deal but they are all similar tier.

No one else in the division is relevant

Not sure I'm quite ready to say MTL is irrelevant, some might even consider that POV to be somewhat cocky. Agree with the rest.

 

[Sypher04]

Not sure I'm quite ready to say MTL is irrelevant, some might even consider that POV to be somewhat cocky. Agree with the rest.

not cocky, I just don’t like Montreal’s roster and I don’t see a compelling reason to think they are suddenly better than the barely average regular season team that narrowly snuck in last year 18th in the league. Their unlikely run doesn’t change anything to me. In fact, I’m not convinced they didn’t get worse.

 

[Gary Nylund]

not cocky, I just don’t like Montreal’s roster and I don’t see a compelling reason to think they are suddenly better than the barely average regular season team that narrowly snuck in last year 18th in the league. Their unlikely run doesn’t change anything to me. In fact, I’m not convinced they didn’t get worse.

That's fair. But even if they're no better than they were, they could still sneak in the playoffs and anything can happen after that, as we all know.

 

[A1LeafNation]

I doubt Marner will take a pay cut but I'm good with a small raise if we don't go over 11M. This is assuming that he keeps producing in the regular season and more importantly, improves his playoff performance.

Boot his ass out if he doesn't take a discount. He owes the Leafs money with this shit play.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Boot his ass out if he doesn't take a discount. He owes the Leafs money with this shit play.

He still has a couple of years before we get there so I'm not ready to draw any hard lines in the sand just yet.

 

[myleafs]

Leafs have one of the best cap situations in the league, with zero bad contracts whatsoever.

He could easily choose to trade any and all of the big contracts for very good value whenever he wants.

We differ on a lot of things but this I agree with. Whether he would actually trade any is another discussion.

 

[yubbers]

Lou left him with McBackUp...he chose Sparks...not having a competent back up for a while there definitely hurt.

Matthews coming in for money between Eichel and McDavid was expected...getting 3 less years on the contract was not expected.

Marner on an RFA contract getting more money than any other winger in the league and also not max term was not expected. Those blew up in his face and the pressure would be a lot less if Matthews & Marner had 5-6 more years under contract than the 3 Matthews currently has.

It's fine, I expect Dubas will be let go after this season because they're either not making it at all or will get stomped by one of Tampa or Boston in the first round.

Definately hurt? We had to kick Sparks out of the room week out from the playoffs. It made us miss the playoffs the following year because every game against our backup was a guaranteed L. Took him more than half the season to fix it!! In a season we handed out firsts to dump Marleau!

He kneecapped his own team gambling on a known hothead. When we had a sure thing. Incompetence at it's finest. Completely unnecessary risk that did severe damage

 

[HarryLime]

I’m not one to get super vocal or cocky with other fanbases, so I agree with the idea of staying humble. But I don’t think that really has much of anything to do with whether we actually are as good as or better than Boston.

Tampa is still the class of our division. I think most people agree here, even if a step back is expected.

Toronto/Florida/Boston seems like a pick your poison type deal but they are all similar tier.

No one else in the division is relevant

Montreal beat Toronto and made the cup final but aren't relevant lol. How can someone in the poor house be so arrogant....

 

[Sypher04]

Montreal beat Toronto and made the cup final but aren't relevant lol. How can someone in the poor house be so arrogant....

I already explained why I said this and it’s very clearly not arrogance. There’s really no reason to think this Montreal team has a playoff birth in them, in a much tougher division, when they’ve been so lacklustre in the regular season. They weren’t even one of the 16 best teams last year. Their run changes none of this. And to make matters worse, they’ve lost key pieces

 

[HarryLime]

I already explained why I said this and it’s very clearly not arrogance. There’s really no reason to think this Montreal team has a playoff birth in them, in a much tougher division, when they’ve been so lacklustre in the regular season. They weren’t even one of the 16 best teams last year. Their run changes nine of this. And to make matters worse, they’ve lost key pieces

It's more the fact that we can call any tram irrelevant. The shine on this team is gone. Blue Jays hopefully don't follow the same trajectory.

 

[Sypher04]

It's more the fact that we can call any tram irrelevant. The shine on this team is gone. Blue Jays hopefully don't follow the same trajectory.

I stand by what I said. Tampa, Boston, Florida and Toronto have proven to be quality regular season teams.

Montreal hasn’t.

 

[myleafs]

Yup. My hope is that unless we win the cup very soon, M&M will feel like they owe us something and don't take us to town on their next deals. I'm not counting on it by any means but I'm allowed to hope.

there can be no true despair without hope....

 

[Sypher04]

Yup. My hope is that unless we win the cup very soon, M&M will feel like they owe us something and don't take us to town on their next deals. I'm not counting on it by any means but I'm allowed to hope.

obviously we don’t count on it, but I’ve been feeling similar. The pains of what is happening now might be what we need to have them believe they need to leave something on the table for others next time around. Also depending on what transpired between now and then, could possibly use the goodwill lol

 

[Gary Nylund]

there can be no true despair without hope....

 

[The CyNick]

I’m not one to get super vocal or cocky with other fanbases, so I agree with the idea of staying humble. But I don’t think that really has much of anything to do with whether we actually are as good as or better than Boston.

Tampa is still the class of our division. I think most people agree here, even if a step back is expected.

Toronto/Florida/Boston seems like a pick your poison type deal but they are all similar tier.

No one else in the division is relevant

Team that dummied the Leafs for the last three games of the playoffs disagrees.

 

[Sypher04]

Team that dummied the Leafs for the last three games of the playoffs disagrees.

That playoff series changes nothing about how mediocre of a regular season team Montreal has been, and got worse.

 

[Racer88]

I stand by what I said. Tampa, Boston, Florida and Toronto have proven to be quality regular season teams.

Montreal hasn’t.

While that may be true maybe the Habs have learned that they need to be better in the season……..much like we are hoping that the Leafs have learned that they need to be better in the playoffs. Either one of these could be true or neither could be true.
I would think one is just as likely true as the other

 

[Menzinger]

But why is he going after the same people?

Though there is a core difference in those approaches. Last season they had Thornton and Simmonds for the same price as Martin's caphit. So it's fair to say that both GMs saw value in a certain type of player - their approach to adding them was.different as Lou was willing to give them contracts like they were core players vs Dubas' era where they're paid as cheaper depth guys.

A more direct difference is Dubas' has been more aggressive getting blue chip assets for the blue line in guys like Muzzin and Brodie vs the bandaids like Zaitsev and Hainsey.

 

[Stephen]

Though there is a core difference in those approaches. Last season they had Thornton and Simmonds for the same price as Martin's caphit. So it's fair to say that both GMs saw value in a certain type of player - their approach to adding them was.different as Lou was willing to give them contracts like they were core players vs Dubas' era where they're paid as cheaper depth guys.

A more direct difference is Dubas' has been more aggressive getting blue chip assets for the blue line in guys like Muzzin and Brodie vs the bandaids like Zaitsev and Hainsey.

That's fair, I would say the Thornton acquisition was under different circumstances from Marleau, but I could see those names having been bandied about between the brain trust for a number of years before it finally happened... similar to how we wanted to trade Kadri for Brodie, didn't work out, but ended up happening in free agency...

Generally I think of the regime as the management team as evolving over time with the change from Lou to Dubas, but it's not like we had a "revolution "and dramatic regime change... the whole idea that Lou left such a mess that Dubas had to dig out of in this thread doesn't jive with the other narrative that we're the new Chicago Blackhawks in another. To me, this is all the same Shanaplan, and Lou and Dubas would have collaborated in making what the team was up until 2018.

 

[ottomaddox]

I’m not one to get super vocal or cocky with other fanbases, so I agree with the idea of staying humble. But I don’t think that really has much of anything to do with whether we actually are as good as or better than Boston.

Tampa is still the class of our division. I think most people agree here, even if a step back is expected.

Toronto/Florida/Boston seems like a pick your poison type deal but they are all similar tier.

No one else in the division is relevant

Swing and a miss at being humble!

Lol

 

[Leaf Fans]

Team that dummied the Leafs for the last three games of the playoffs disagrees.

Yeah, but Montreal played two tough games winning in overtime and outclassed the Leafs in Game 7 in their last 3 games against the Leafs they would disagree too.

 

[Sypher04]

Swing and a miss at being humble!

Lol

Yeah, I already explained why you're wrong. Try to keep up.

 

[IPS]

Yeah, but Montreal played two tough games winning in overtime and outclassed the Leafs in Game 7 in their last 3 games against the Leafs they would disagree too.

The Leafs came out with 2 of the most embarrassing starts ever witnessed in a playoff game and basically handed the Habs 3-0 and 2-0 leads on a silver platter. You're being too nice to them here.