Leaf Fans
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Sure. Missing the playoffs by a hair.
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The New and Improved , Kyle Dubas Discussion Thread
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The Hanging Jowl
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I would rephrase that to say it works just as well in hockey on an individual basis but it has less of an impact because of the number of variables. That doesn't mean we should dismiss it.
Don’t be stupid. Burke inherited a team where Joey Crabb found his way onto the first line, and the system was so poor that fans were excited to acquire prospects like Luca Caputi, and ‘free wallets’ like Christian Hanson and Brayden Irwin.
Give Burke the group Dubas inherited. The talent level and promise is in a different stratosphere.
How does it work just as well in hockey when they literally miss more data than they record?
Leaf Fans
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Stop whining. I was asked to use my imagination not to share yours.
Bless your heart.
Leaf Fans
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The Hanging Jowl
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You're not serious are you? If your post was sarcastic, then ignore.
Burke built a team around a one-dimensional winger in Kessel. That should say enough but i'll go on...
He left the team with a prospect pool consisting of Colborne (terrible Kaberle return), Biggs (pick traded for Rakell and Gibson), Percy (wasted 1st round bust), McKegg, Finn, Ross, etc. He had several years to build this pipeline as the team missed the playoffs every single regular year under his control. Dubas has built a better program while making the playoffs every year without fail (Sandin, Amirov, Robertson, Liljegren, Niemela, Knies, etc.).
People cry about Dubas' contracts. Most probably just started watching hockey because Burke handed out albatross deals to Komisarek, Liles (demoted to AHL), Armstrong (bought out), re-signed Lebda, etc. Dubas' worst contract is Marner(?) by ~2m, who would be the best player on any Burke team.
Oh, don't forget that Burke traded away Stralman, Kubina, etc. for nothing.
He never found a top centre (Dubas signed Tavares), never found a true #1 goalie (only brought in Gustavsson and broken down Giguere compared to Campbell/Mrazek), and made worse moves on D (Phaneuf/Gardiner/Beachemin/Exelby vs. Muzzin/Brodie/Holl/Bogosian/Sandin).
Not even close.
Dayjobdave
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Ah, I first found hfboards looking for info on new leaf hot prospect Luca Caputi…
What part of this addresses what I said? That Burke inherited a team at the bottom of the league while Dubas’ was near the top.. and despite one with a pile of gold and the other with a pile of shit, both have a high water mark of game 7 of the first round.
Or do you honestly believe starting point is irrelevant?
Hell of a trajectory for him. Decent prospect in Pittsburgh becomes a perceived gem in Toronto, welcomed to the team by Gilmour as if he was part of the new wave, then out of the league in a year or two.
Puts into perspective how little talent and how little there was to be excited about at the time.
Burke would run this team into the ground.
It's funny to hear Burke called a "conservative spender" just because he let his personal rules put us at a competitive disadvantage and get in the way of signing any actual impactful talent. He didn't seem to have any issue overpaying and wasting money on mediocre depth players... Armstrong (4.1m - bought out)... Liles (4.9m - traded for cap dump that was bought out)... Komisarek (6.2m - bought out)... Connolly (6m - buried in the minors)... Grabovski (7m - bought out)...
It's funny to hear Burke called a "conservative spender" just because he let his personal rules put us at a competitive disadvantage and get in the way of signing any actual impactful talent. He didn't seem to have any issue overpaying and wasting money on mediocre depth players... Armstrong (4.1m - bought out)... Liles (4.9m - traded for cap dump that was bought out)... Komisarek (6.2m - bought out)... Connolly (6m - buried in the minors)... Grabovski (7m - bought out)...
hotpaws
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Burke had a much larger fan base than Dubie , they loved his every move just like Dubie's guys and were with him right to the bitter end .
Trapper
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At the end of the day it doesn’t matter who you hand the core too.
It’s up to the players that make up the core to increase intensity, change their game, involve a strong forecheck and play hard. Not Burke or Dubas.
Dubas hasn’t made moves away from the core better or worse than Burke. But he did commit big dollars to that core which limit what else he can do. A problem if his own making but the individual moves haven’t been terrible.
He will live and die with that cure and from what I’ve seen of them, it’s leaning more one way.
It wasn't Burke's fault. He was left bad contracts by the previous GM. Taxes are high in Ontario. The players didn't perform better. He thought the cap was going to be higher. His goaltending shit the bed. Trading away draft picks is cool because he wanted to contend. The coach didn't play the right guys. He was probably being undermined by someone else. He has nice glasses.
ACC1224
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Burkes experience would certainly help. Team would probably be a little less skilled but not roll over so easily when things get tough.
Nylander would have been traded for holding out and Marner likely bridged.
IMO, not sure the Team is better off with Dubas but I don't think Burke would have been the answer either.
It always creates such an interesting dynamic.
You’d think fans would care more about the team and be more objective when assessing managements work but it doesn’t seem to go like that. Not just for the Leafs but it seems to be the case with a number of pro sports teams where the fans divide into factions based on what they like/don’t like about the current group or management regime.
So bizarre.
ACC1224
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When Burke came in, it was similar to Babcock being hired.
Fans were excited that someone at or near the top of the game were being brought in.
That brought hope. That feeling didn't exist when Dubas was named.
The Hanging Jowl
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Fun fact: those glasses aren't prescription. He lost sight in one eye and he wears them for protection.
hotpaws
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some fans believe mgmt and the team are the same entity and to be a good fan means you have support every move mgmt makes
Some I’m sure fit this description, but I don’t think that’s a large number. I think you’ll find most people who support the management just genuinely don’t believe that all the crap they get is warranted. Some of it sure, but many fans get pretty ridiculous with their criticisms
It is a strange concept. Fan bases aren't even like that with players (for the most part). It's just management that people can't seem to separate from the organization.
In football (soccer), it's very much the opposite. Management isn't liked by the masses in most cases.
ACC1224
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It's not.
It seems the number of fans who love everything is about the same as those who hate everything, their opinions are equally as meaningless.
Rest of us are in the middle being honest.
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