The New and Improved , Kyle Dubas Discussion Thread

[Dekes For Days]

You again waste my time by not answering direct questions I presented to you. Let me ask again, what situation did he inherit that was so catastrophic?

I literally just reposted my entire post outlining some of the unfavourable situations Dubas experienced or inherited.

Again, I never said best.

Your statements were:
"His situation was one of the BEST a starting GM could hope for."
"What possible situation would be better than the one he was given??"
"I mean seriously, it doesn’t get much better unless you suddenly become GM of the 2020 TB Lightning."

I said you viewed him in hindsight

We're talking about the situations that were inherited. Whether you predicted it is irrelevant.

Yes, they were set for big contacts but Dubas didn’t have to be the dumbass he is and completely cave to them.

He didn't "completely cave to them". They had earned those contracts.

Honestly you haven’t even addressed my question about which GMs had it better than Dubas

I've addressed it multiple times now. You've just refused to accept answers.

 

[Dekes For Days]

https://www.waveintel.org/single-post/2020/03/27/nhl-gms-by-the-numbers

That supports my position that most GMs are given more than 4 years. It also doesn't address the other half of your claim.

 

[Stonehands1990]

That supports my position that most GMs are given more than 4 years. It also doesn't address the other half of your claim.

At what point did I argue your position? I literally and just stated a fact that GMs last an average of 5.5 years.

It’s also true that most GMs don’t inherit a team that set the franchise record for points. Pretty sure 0 GMs have come into that situation besides Brisebois. Using logic, you’d assume that adds pressure to the current management group.

Or you could just look for arguments. The choice is yours

 

[hockeywiz542]

EP 223 - Kyle Dubas on the Toronto Maple Leafs & their playoff struggles

September 9, 2021

General Manager of the Toronto Maple Leafs, Kyle Dubas, stops by to check in with the boys on today's episode.

We get to hear about what the GM has been up to this offseason, his opinion on the teams playoff performance last season and their overall post season struggles over the last 5 years - how much longer can this keep happening before big changes are made?

We also pick his brain about their captain's health and whether or not we will see John Tavares in the lineup to start the year, Morgan Rielly's contract situation and how confident he is in his goaltending.

 

[Stephen]

I wouldn't say this part is accurate at all.
Our center depth is better.
Matthews-Tavares-Kerfoot-Kampf is easily better than Matthews-Kadri-Bozak- Gauthier

The key here is John Tavares. Specifically, as time goes on, how much does future Tavares decline, if at all, and if so, how close does he get to 2017-18 Nazem Kadri?

 

[Bomber0104]

The key here is John Tavares. Specifically, as time goes on, how much does future Tavares decline, if at all, and if so, how close does he get to 2017-18 Nazem Kadri?

Did Kyle Dubas acquire John Tavares for his services in years 4-7 in your estimation?

Or years 1-3?

 

[Stephen]

Did Kyle Dubas acquire John Tavares for his services in years 4-7 in your estimation?

Or years 1-3?

I think the design of the Tavares deal is assuming 7 years of contention, so the Kadri deal is a good comparison of production/cost up until the end of 2020-21. I would imagine Dubas probably assumed $11 million contracts would be more common in Years 4-7 if pre pandemic trends continued, so he would go from big ticket to gently declining asset on a big spending team.

 

[Bomber0104]

I think the design of the Tavares deal is assuming 7 years of contention, so the Kadri deal is a good comparison of production/cost up until the end of 2020-21. I would imagine Dubas probably assumed $11 million contracts would be more common in Years 4-7 if pre pandemic trends continued, so he would go from big ticket to gently declining asset on a big spending team.

Would it be fair to say a year 4-7 UFA John Tavares isn't worth as much, in real market value, as year 1-3 UFA John Tavares?

 

[Stephen]

Would it be fair to say a year 4-7 UFA John Tavares isn't worth as much, in real market value, as year 1-3 UFA John Tavares?

That would depend on John Tavares' play on the ice. If he wants to pop off for 48 goals again, I don't think he would be worth less. But if he comes in with a 25 goal, 65 point effort and looks slow as a glacier, then we'll have a depreciating asset on our hands.

 

[Bomber0104]

That would depend on John Tavares' play on the ice. If he wants to pop off for 48 goals again, I don't think he would be worth less. But if he comes in with a 25 goal, 65 point effort and looks slow as a glacier, then we'll have a depreciating asset on our hands.

How's he looking in your eyes, on a trajectory?

48 goals?

Or a 25 goal passenger that got forced those minutes?

 

[Bomber0104]

Doesn't the whole machine we have here break down if Tavares can't handle the speed of the new generation coming up?

Can Tavares shut a line down? No.

Can Matthews shut a line down? Not currently. He's a shy boy.

 

[yubbers]

Report: Leafs' Mikheyev requested trade, club not interested in moving him

 

[Stonehands1990]

Report: Leafs' Mikheyev requested trade, club not interested in moving him

If I played on a team with a coaching staff that thought 41 year old Joe Thornton was more worthy of top 6 minutes I’d ask for a trade also

 

[Stephen]

How's he looking in your eyes, on a trajectory?

48 goals?

Or a 25 goal passenger that got forced those minutes?

I don't really know what kind of trajectory Tavares is on. He looked brutal for stretches last season which would point to decline, but was later attributed to learning to play better defense. Then he turned it on for the second half of the season and was above PPG before getting hurt vs Montreal.

 

[Stephen]

If I played on a team with a coaching staff that thought 41 year old Joe Thornton was more worthy of top 6 minutes I’d ask for a trade also

The other side of that equation is if you're not even in the conversation to get more ice time ahead of 41 year old Joe Thornton, you might not get better opportunities on another team.

 

[Bomber0104]

I don't really know what kind of trajectory Tavares is on. He looked brutal for stretches last season which would point to decline, but was later attributed to learning to play better defense. Then he turned it on for the second half of the season and was above PPG before getting hurt vs Montreal.

It would make the inevitable year 4-7 decline a lot worse if we had a good centre that could interchange with him at the centre-wing position.

One that played with him in London...

Instead we have Alex Kerfoot.

Dubas, you genius you..

 

[SnizzNasty88]

Sounds almost too good of a trade to be true, doesn't it?

Hmmmm...I wonder...Does that make you think before you post or no?

This is a fact. Friedman reported the Leafs and Panthers talked Weegar for Johnsson and Dermott, that was their offer on the table, and Dubass said no. Pathetic GM.

 

[Leaf Fans]

This is a fact. Friedman reported the Leafs and Panthers talked Weegar for Johnsson and Dermott, that was their offer on the table, and Dubass said no. Pathetic GM.

It is a true report, "

Whether the report is completely accurate or not, the Toronto Maple Leafs are taking a bit of a beating on social media today. The reason? Apparently, the team turned down an opportunity to land a well-respected and talented defenseman in MacKenzie Weegar in a trade.
On Friday, Sportsnet’s Jeff Marek and Elliotte Friedman talked about a deal that was apparently on the table between the Maple Leafs and Florida Panthers. The Panthers were willing to move Weegar to the Leafs but wanted Travis Dermott and Andreas Johnsson. The two analysts are reporting that GM Kyle Dubas said no.
Trades don’t happen all the time. In fact, logic would suggest there are two-three times as many failed trades that don’t ultimately go down as ones that do. This one stings a bit though for Leafs Nation.
Friedman and Marek pointed out how well Weegar is playing for Florida and that he’s a big part of their success this season. At the same time, Leafs fans are noting that Johnsson was already traded and the team could lose Dermott in the Seattle expansion draft.
Johnsson went to the New Jersey Devils for Joey Anderson. Anderson has played only one game with the Maple Leafs this season and failed to record a point. Meanwhile, Dermott has had all the potential in the world the last couple of years and remains a bottom pairing for the Leafs.

 

[Stonehands1990]

I don't really know what kind of trajectory Tavares is on. He looked brutal for stretches last season which would point to decline, but was later attributed to learning to play better defense. Then he turned it on for the second half of the season and was above PPG before getting hurt vs Montreal.

I believe he’s 7th in the league in goals over a 3 year stretch but man does he look like he’s playing like absolute junk 50% of the time

 

[egd27]

I believe he’s 7th in the league in goals over a 3 year stretch but man does he look like he’s playing like absolute junk 50% of the time

I know it's a different time and league, but I used to watch JT when he was with Generals. Often came away thinking he didn't do much, only to see he had 4 or 5 points on the night.

He's never been too flashy, but he continues to be effective.

(still was the wrong signing at the time)

 

[SnizzNasty88]

It is a true report, "

Whether the report is completely accurate or not, the Toronto Maple Leafs are taking a bit of a beating on social media today. The reason? Apparently, the team turned down an opportunity to land a well-respected and talented defenseman in MacKenzie Weegar in a trade.
On Friday, Sportsnet’s Jeff Marek and Elliotte Friedman talked about a deal that was apparently on the table between the Maple Leafs and Florida Panthers. The Panthers were willing to move Weegar to the Leafs but wanted Travis Dermott and Andreas Johnsson. The two analysts are reporting that GM Kyle Dubas said no.
Trades don’t happen all the time. In fact, logic would suggest there are two-three times as many failed trades that don’t ultimately go down as ones that do. This one stings a bit though for Leafs Nation.
Friedman and Marek pointed out how well Weegar is playing for Florida and that he’s a big part of their success this season. At the same time, Leafs fans are noting that Johnsson was already traded and the team could lose Dermott in the Seattle expansion draft.
Johnsson went to the New Jersey Devils for Joey Anderson. Anderson has played only one game with the Maple Leafs this season and failed to record a point. Meanwhile, Dermott has had all the potential in the world the last couple of years and remains a bottom pairing for the Leafs.

Yes, this is the report, and Friedman first reported this via Twitter when both Johnsson and Dermott were on the team. Kyle Dubass is an absolutely pathetic GM and disgustingly arrogant for someone who has won a grand total of nothing. Absolute garbage and not making moves like this will haunt us in the future. Sweet Lou would have done that in a heartbeat. Dubass is a f***ing joke and every executive in hockey knows it.

 

[Leaf Fans]

Yes, this is the report, and Friedman first reported this via Twitter when both Johnsson and Dermott were on the team. Kyle Dubass is an absolutely pathetic GM and disgustingly arrogant for someone who has won a grand total of nothing. Absolute garbage and not making moves like this will haunt us in the future. Sweet Lou would have done that in a heartbeat. Dubass is a f***ing joke and every executive in hockey knows it.

Yeah, I agreed that the report was true. Whether the trade was actually discussed is a different matter. Sweet Lou would not have been able to trade New Jersey's player. He is a good GM, but not magical.

 

[SnizzNasty88]

Yeah, I agreed that the report was true. Whether the trade was actually discussed is a different matter. Sweet Lou would not have been able to trade New Jersey's player. He is a good GM, but not magical.

Yes, the trade was discussed BEFORE Johnsson was shipped to NJ for a steaming pile of crap. Sweet Lou would have made it happen, just about any GM in the league would have, except for Dubass who falls in love with all of his players no matter who they are.

 

[Leaf Fans]

Yes, the trade was discussed BEFORE Johnsson was shipped to NJ for a steaming pile of crap. Sweet Lou would have made it happen, just about any GM in the league would have, except for Dubass who falls in love with all of his players no matter who they are.

Not according to the article I read, but who really knows. Though AJ was shipped for Joey Andersen- he will have an opertunity to stick this year.

 

[SnizzNasty88]

Not according to the article I read, but who really knows. Though AJ was shipped for Joey Andersen- he will have an opertunity to stick this year.

I remember Friedman tweeting about it last October before the draft began. Johnsson was traded a few days after the draft. The article clearly states that FLA tabled Weegar for Dermott and Johnsson and Dubass said no. An absolutely pathetic decision by a pathetic and disgusting excuse of a GM. Weegar is exactly what we have needed for a long time and FLA was basically willing to gift him to us for essentially nothing given the fact that we were going to trade Johnsson anyway and Dermott isn't really needed. Deplorable offense.