The Negativity-**Only** Thread (A Place to go to vent) II

[hockey diva]

I was so mad tonight , I wanted to hurt someone.

For goodness sake, put the damn puck in the net! Passes should go tape to tape, not behind your teammate or in his skates or to the guy wearing the opposing jersey. Clear the puck from your zone as soon as possible on a PK.

I am so sick of this garbage. Poile built this crappy team and Trotz helped him. Wake up ownership! Your ship is sinking fast.

 

[cleangene63]

I had to count to ten while walking in the Bridge lobby in order to talk myself out of finding Sean Henry, and scream, " LET ME KNOW THE YEAR YOU DO PLAN ON BRINGING THE STANLEY CUP HERE, BEACUSE THIS TEAM SURE WON'T BE DOING IT ANYTIME SOON.".....among other things. Anyone else on this board tired of seeing 3 gold jerseys with the puck on the boards or behind the net if and when they get the puck into their zone? Anyone else on this board tired of seeing over half of the so-called high shot totals going into the opposing goalie's chest from 20-40 feet away?

 

[AtlantaWhaler]

I agree with what NoNeck said in the GDT. Aside from the usual rants, I'm sick of 3-4 players being out every game. I understand that every team has to deal with them, but this has been a big deal with this team for about a year now. I'm having nightmares of "upper" and "lower body injuries" every game. I'd LOVE to ice a full team for at least a few weeks to see how this team plays.

 

[glenngineer]

I had to count to ten while walking in the Bridge lobby in order to talk myself out of finding Sean Henry, and scream, " LET ME KNOW THE YEAR YOU DO PLAN ON BRINGING THE STANLEY CUP HERE, BEACUSE THIS TEAM SURE WON'T BE DOING IT ANYTIME SOON.".....among other things. Anyone else on this board tired of seeing 3 gold jerseys with the puck on the boards or behind the net if and when they get the puck into their zone? Anyone else on this board tired of seeing over half of the so-called high shot totals going into the opposing goalie's chest from 20-40 feet away?

It's funny, Gaustad went low last night and won a battle and threw the puck to the front of the net. Guess what, no one in gold was there. And when we do have someone in front of the net, they're too close to the goalie to shoot it past them. The only time you need to be close to the goalie is when there is a shot coming from the point and you're trying to screen the goalie or tip it and even if you're trying to tip it, you don't want to be too close as it'll hit the goalie perfectly almost every time.

 

[Dave is a killer]

Game in and game out, this team can't score, case in point Colin Wilson, for all the hype the kid has had, he's trending on the 40 point/season type player

117 points in 238 games

 

[PFL615]

I agree with the gripe on shot quality and chances. Wilson should have ended the game Saturday against the Flyers. Smith and Cullen all alone un front of the net with 30 minutes to do something. Come away with nothing. If we had a true top line forward getting the shots Fisher and Horny get on most nights we would be scoring a lot more goals.

 

[PredsV82]

Im getting on board the negativity train...

the players we were counting on to be our scorers, to replace the goals we got from guys like Erat, Arnott, Dumont, and Sullivan in the past just arent getting it done

Wilson? he's looking like at best he's going to put up 3rd liner numbers 15 goals +/- 3

Smith, occasional flashes followed by long periods of invisibility (agree with byrddog, he is a polished turd)

Forsberg is "incomplete" and obviously still is young but he sure isnt helping anything now

and Stalberg looks like he's exactly what the Hawks fans told us he would be.. a poser..


Fisher and Legwand are both just looking old... as is Cullen.

for the first time ever, I really dont feel good at all about this teams future.

 

[Dave is a killer]

It's almost like this organization is scared to suck to succeed, never truly bad enough to get that self motivated offensive dynamo that this organization has been lacking since its inception

 

[PredsV82]

It's almost like this organization is scared to suck to succeed, never truly bad enough to get that self motivated offensive dynamo that this organization has been lacking since its inception

the offensive dynamo we did draft who should right now be in the prime of his career scoring 30+ per season is in Russia, a total headcase

the other guys we hoped would provide the offense havent panned out(Wilson, Smith, Stalberg, Cullen)

as much as I think jones is gonna be awesome, I still curse the luck that we didnt get one of the big three forwards this year..

 

[hockey diva]

I am also getting seriously annoyed with all the ticket deals they are throwing out there. I pay for a full and a half season ticket. This smacks of desperation to fill the building with cheap tickets instead of putting a competitive team on the ice that will attract people.

 

[Dave is a killer]

I am also getting seriously annoyed with all the ticket deals they are throwing out there. I pay for a full and a half season ticket. This smacks of desperation to fill the building with cheap tickets instead of putting a competitive team on the ice that will attract people.

Come to the game, stay for the food

 

[Dave is a killer]

dammit, I hate it when I post from my cell phone

 

[PredsV82]

I am also getting seriously annoyed with all the ticket deals they are throwing out there. I pay for a full and a half season ticket. This smacks of desperation to fill the building with cheap tickets instead of putting a competitive team on the ice that will attract people.

yeah if they do this too much, and we have a really bad season, I can see a lot of STH's saying screw this, i'll just get sporadic tickets on special deals...

 

[PFL615]

Smith is not a polished turd. He has done work this year and doesn't deserve that BS label. Is Horny a polished turd to because he doesn't score everynight? Because he flashes some nights and then does nothing but get thrown around like a ragdoll other nights? What about Fisher? How many points has Legwand put up in the past 3 games?

Smith is not going to be a Crosby or Stamkos so get over it already.

When your not a super star like those two it's hard to produce everynight when other teams are focused on you because you are the only real speed and skill threat on the line your on.

Smith is just inconsistent and fits into that Predators forward role well.

 

[PredsV82]

Smith is not a polished turd. He has done work this year and doesn't deserve that BS label. Is Horny a polished turd to because he doesn't score everynight? Because he flashes some nights and then does nothing but get thrown around like a ragdoll other nights? What about Fisher? How many points has Legwand put up in the past 3 games?

Smith is not going to be a Crosby or Stamkos so get over it already.

When your not a super star like those two it's hard to produce everynight when other teams are focused on you because you are the only real speed and skill threat on the line your on.

Smith is just inconsistent and fits into that Predators forward role well.

Only an idiot would expect Smith to be like Stamkos or Crosby

I would be elated if Simth turned out to be an Erat or Dumont.

Problem it appears he is going to be a Fiddler at best minus the grit.

dont take it so personally, Im sure he's a nice guy, and he works hard, but hard work doesnt mean spit if you cant score, and I believ he is not going to be a top 6 forward in the NHL, unless there is expansion... then he can be some new teams version of Krivokrasov or Yahcmenev


(and ps this is the negativity thread we are supposed to be allowed to vent here)

 

[Byrddog]

Only an idiot would expect Smith to be like Stamkos or Crosby

I would be elated if Simth turned out to be an Erat or Dumont.

Problem it appears he is going to be a Fiddler at best minus the grit.

dont take it so personally, Im sure he's a nice guy, and he works hard, but hard work doesnt mean spit if you cant score, and I believ he is not going to be a top 6 forward in the NHL, unless there is expansion... then he can be some new teams version of Krivokrasov or Yahcmenev


(and ps this is the negativity thread we are supposed to be allowed to vent here)

This is pretty much right on, the front office coaching and the fans have put expectations on Smith, Wilson, and soon Watson that they can't fulfill. These three all have college in common as well. Now don't get me wrong I believe in a good education. But the NCAA hockey program for the most part does not prepare these guys to step in to the NHL. Now Wilson spent some time in the minors as has Watson but the leap so far has been too much for Wilson. Smith had mediocre college career and is way over his head now. Both Wilson and Smith have shown flashes of excellence but can not sustain any momentum.

Theres a interesting thread over the NHL talk section about which teams need a rebuild. Some of you have even posted there. But step back and read what others said about this tams offense. Pretty much all that are not Pred fans agree the offense should be blown up.

Due to the contracts in place this will be difficult. I hope we do not lose prospects lke Fanson to get rid of Lombarbi.

 

[triggrman]

This is pretty much right on, the front office coaching and the fans have put expectations on Smith, Wilson, and soon Watson that they can't fulfill. These three all have college in common as well. Now don't get me wrong I believe in a good education. But the NCAA hockey program for the most part does not prepare these guys to step in to the NHL. Now Wilson spent some time in the minors as has Watson but the leap so far has been too much for Wilson. Smith had mediocre college career and is way over his head now. Both Wilson and Smith have shown flashes of excellence but can not sustain any momentum.

Theres a interesting thread over the NHL talk section about which teams need a rebuild. Some of you have even posted there. But step back and read what others said about this tams offense. Pretty much all that are not Pred fans agree the offense should be blown up.

Due to the contracts in place this will be difficult. I hope we do not lose prospects lke Fanson to get rid of Lombarbi.

Yeah and most of those that think we should be blown up are also the trade proposal board offering crap for Weber.

 

[Bringer of Jollity]

This is pretty much right on, the front office coaching and the fans have put expectations on Smith, Wilson, and soon Watson that they can't fulfill. These three all have college in common as well. Now don't get me wrong I believe in a good education. But the NCAA hockey program for the most part does not prepare these guys to step in to the NHL. Now Wilson spent some time in the minors as has Watson but the leap so far has been too much for Wilson. Smith had mediocre college career and is way over his head now. Both Wilson and Smith have shown flashes of excellence but can not sustain any momentum.

Theres a interesting thread over the NHL talk section about which teams need a rebuild. Some of you have even posted there. But step back and read what others said about this tams offense. Pretty much all that are not Pred fans agree the offense should be blown up.

Due to the contracts in place this will be difficult. I hope we do not lose prospects lke Fanson to get rid of Lombarbi.

Just too many redundant pieces in the offense. Too many players that, in a good year, will hit the 40-50 range. I think it leads to Trotz having too many options and flexibility in the lineup, when some rigidity might be better.

I think any two of Wilson, Smith, Hornqvist would be fine in a regular second line role, but we're placing way too much burden for carrying the offensive load on their backs. I'd like to see one of Wilson or Smith traded.

Bourque is a player that should never play above the third line. His skill set and style fit that role (normally), and he adds enough production to be a good fit there, but not consistently enough to be a top guy. I think him and Beck are redundant pieces, and one can be moved.

Stalberg...I loathed the idea of signing him when discussed last spring. Saw him as a glorified third line guy who's not really that good in a third line role. Regardless, he should be in the bottom 6. Not productive or consistent enough to be a reliable top 6 guy.

One of Cullen or Legwand needs to go, assuming Fisher is here for the long haul. If a legitimate top line center can be found, probably both of them need to go. I'd be content to keep Legwand depending on the price, but also think either Spaling or Watson could start to take on third line duties next season. Mind you, I'm a Legwand fan, and would prefer to keep him, but just too much of a logjam. If you keep Legwand, then Cullen and Gaustad need to go.

Ideally, our offense needs to start to look something like:

X-X-X
Wilson-Fisher-Hornqvist
Stalberg-Legwand/Spaling-Bourque
Nystrom-Spaling/Watson-whoever

The top line, obviously, is the tough part. Assuming we don't tank...then maybe we start to make some moves I'd probably hate. Trade for a guy like Cammalleri (eww), pick up a Hemsky (who will wind up on IR), but maybe at least put top line TALENT into the roster and stop hoping that guys who lack it will magically start showing it.

Don't flame me, I'm just spitballing here.

 

[triggrman]

Again. You guys are confusing lines with traditional teams.

Ice time wise our team leader by position are

Mike Fisher, 18:10 per game good for 89th among forwards in the league, funny it is less than most 2nd liners.

On wing we have Hornqvist who averages 16:16 per game good for 150th among forwards in the NHL or on average as much as a borderline 3rd liner.

We're talking about Wilson being on our top line he is the next top winger, at 16:10 good for 155th in the league.

Craig Smith you ask? 14:41 Good for 231st among forwards in the NHL, or about as much as a good 4th liner.

Speaking of 4th liners. Stalberg is coming in at 13:08 per game or about like most 4th liners. Last year he was a 3rd liner on Chicago and averaged 14:08 per game.

If Fisher was on the Nucks his current ice time would put him on the 3rd line, and he's our leader.

Those of you that ask, how does Trotz system prevent guys from putting up big numbers, here's some evidence.

But the didn't stop Kariya, Sullivan, Dumont or Arnott, right? Kariya under Trotz in his last season 20:22 per game, Arnott's best 18:59, Dumont's best 18:29.

These guys produced because they got time to do it, we're playing guys the same minutes as a 3rd liner and calling him a 1st liner and wondering why his results don't match. We're wondering why guys show no chemistry but we don't get them enough time on the ice to develop it. We don't have a 1st line, we roll 3 3rd lines, that's the way this team is built, that's what Trotz wants and what Poile gave him.

 

[predfan98]

Agreed. Trotz juggles the lines too much for my liking.

 

[jwhouk]

I would like to propose a change to the criteria for the Vezina Trophy this season.

Goaltenders who are being considered for the award need to have their performance against the Predators discounted, because EVERY goaltender looks like a Vezina candidate against us.

 

[Hockeyfever]

This is pretty much right on, the front office coaching and the fans have put expectations on Smith, Wilson, and soon Watson that they can't fulfill. These three all have college in common as well. Now don't get me wrong I believe in a good education. But the NCAA hockey program for the most part does not prepare these guys to step in to the NHL. Now Wilson spent some time in the minors as has Watson but the leap so far has been too much for Wilson. Smith had mediocre college career and is way over his head now. Both Wilson and Smith have shown flashes of excellence but can not sustain any momentum.

Theres a interesting thread over the NHL talk section about which teams need a rebuild. Some of you have even posted there. But step back and read what others said about this tams offense. Pretty much all that are not Pred fans agree the offense should be blown up.

Due to the contracts in place this will be difficult. I hope we do not lose prospects lke Fanson to get rid of Lombarbi.

Sorry about interrupting but Watson never played college hockey. He played in the OHL.

 

[Byrddog]

Sorry about interrupting but Watson never played college hockey. He played in the OHL.

I stand corrected. Don't know why this was in my brain. But Im more encouraged about Watson having OHL time. And we could really use him but not the end of last year when he was clearly lost most of the time on the ice.


And Trigg's point is accurate n reference in TOI. However there are two glaring differences Kayria, Sully, Dumont and even Arnott had the ability to finish. This is very absent with the current roster. The breakdown in minutes played per line is less concerning to me than placing players names in a hat and throwing lines together. Of course injuries, a coach must make adjustments. But keeping the same players playing with other line mates is pretty important if your gonna roll three scoring lines equally.

The comment about a logjam of talent is apparent as well, but it being lower end talent is the trouble spot. What Trotz is trying is to have 9 forwards to all contribute to carry the team, and I think can all agree that's its failing. I as worked for Trotz in the past, but now some change is due either in players on the bench or the coach and GM behind the bench or all three.

 

[dulzhok]

Mike Fisher, 18:10 per game good for 89th among forwards in the league, funny it is less than most 2nd liners.

18:10 is not less than most 2nd liners.

If there are 3 "first line players" on each team, that would put the top 90 in icetime/game as first-line ice time. This also doesn't take into account injured players (Stamkos) who are still in that top 90 though someone else is taking their ice time right now.

Top six would be top 180th among forwards (not even taking into account the injured), which Hornqvist, Wilson, and Legwand fall into.

I like Wilson' potential, but I've always said he similar to Hartnell in that he's only as good as linemates. I think he has the ability to be a great complementary player with good offensive instincts, but he's not going to consistently lead the charge offensively. Hornqvist is a great complementary player, but has quite a few limitations (speed, defense, vision, puck handling, etc). I'm still feeling out Forseberg, but he's certainly no top-end talent.

Other than that, we have a ton a wanna-be scoringline players who are playing higher than they should. And we signed a *** load more in the offseason!

Players with proven offensive ability have had no problems producing under Trotz, and many of them had career years under Trotz. He adapts the system some to his talent level, but face it, our talent level is low... on paper very easily one of the worst in the league at forward. And that is Poile's fault, no question. It's a problem that's built up over time and hasn't been addressed for most of our existence. Even the good signings of Kariya & Dumont, those guys had to call us. I give Kariya more of the credit than Poile.

But the last 10 years? Absolute failure to address glaring scoring weakness.

If you do what you've always done, you'll get what you've always gotten.
Story of Poile's GM career.

I was a huge fan of Poile the first 5-6 years of our franchise, but then his limitations started kicking in. Now they are more prevalent than ever. He does not not how to build a contender. Even in some hypothetical world where Trotz is limiting our great offense (which I do not agree with), it's still Poile's fault because he's the one who manages and hired Trotz.

It can get worse than Poile, but we'll never have a true winner under Poile.

 

[jwhouk]

This begs a question: is the franchise's unwillingness to get rid of Poile due to a cultural issue amongst the ownership? I'm not talking necessarily about black/white/purple - I'm talking about "Old Southern Money".

There is a perception - right or wrong, I don't know - that those who have made their fortunes in Middle Tennessee tend to "sit" on that fortune instead of loosening the purse strings. The ownership perhaps may not want to make a move, because it would mean they would have to spend more money than they have to, to get a quality GM/VPICOO that may or may not bring them success on the ice.

In short, the owners are taking the old saw about a bird in the hand too much to heart.

We keep wondering if things would get worse under someone other than Poile; perhaps that is exactly why the PFO doesn't want to get rid of him, either?