The Michael Del Zotto is a delsaster.

[eco's bones]

I actually think they play well together, but it's rough on Staal covering up for him all the time

Staal is one of the best defensive defensemen in the league. Arguably top 5. They don't grow on trees. The idea that Staal is injury prone or going to miss more games when next season is months down the road and he was fairly close to coming back is a load of crap. His career isn't over. So we have a glut on the left side and we might move one of the four and he'll be a young guy--the sky is going to fall! BTW all our D on the left side are young. Staal 27, McDonagh 23 and Del Zotto and Moore-22. This is not a crisis.

If Del Zotto were to be moved it's not the end of the world--not anyway if we get back an under 25 year old forward who can be a legit top two line guy. And not if Del Zotto has already plateaued which is something I'm thinking he has.

 

[KreidertheGlider]

Staal is one of the best defensive defensemen in the league. Arguably top 5. They don't grow on trees. The idea that Staal is injury prone or going to miss more games when next season is months down the road and he was fairly close to coming back is a load of crap. His career isn't over. So we have a glut on the left side and we might move one of the four and he'll be a young guy--the sky is going to fall! BTW all our D on the left side are young. Staal 27, McDonagh 23 and Del Zotto and Moore-22. This is not a crisis.

If Del Zotto were to be moved it's not the end of the world--not anyway if we get back an under 25 year old forward who can be a legit top two line guy. And not if Del Zotto has already plateaued which is something I'm thinking he has.

I think that is why most want him traded. That and we have a plethora of LHD.

If any deal comes up for a player like Landeskog or Eberle for MDZ+, you do it 100/100 times. I would just rather give Staal+ than MDZ+ at this point.

 

[Kershaw]

Would I be just as happy if they hold onto him? Yes. Ultimately all I want is for the club to improve and win the Stanley Cup and maintain sustained success through the years. I don't care if that happens with or without Del Zotto.

I just question that if Moore was so much better than MDZ in most facets of the game, why was he traded? Why has he never averaged over 20 MPG on the freaking Blue Jackets? Why is his AHL point production mediocre despite having better offensive tools? How is he suddenly better on the PP, when he's only been on the ice for 1 PPGF? Classic overrating of a shiny new toy. Sure Moore could have some better tools, but MDZ is just a plain better hockey player.

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

I understand your opinion, but I don't think that MDZ has progressed as hoped, maybe the new coach will help, Moore with more experience and a chance, which he really didn't get in Columbus has tremendous upside, by the way I would keep them both...

I think they should keep both as well, unless someone comes along with an offer for Del Zotto that cant be refused. Who knows if Staal will be 100% by next season? Look how thin the blueline looked without him. Now we're ready to shove a 23 year old MDZ out the door too? It makes no sense.

If the new coach can run a halfway decent PP, I think we'll all be a lot happier with Del Zotto.

 

[Vickers8]

I think they should keep both as well, unless someone comes along with an offer for Del Zotto that cant be refused. Who knows if Staal will be 100% by next season? Look how thin the blueline looked without him. Now we're ready to shove a 23 year old MDZ out the door too? It makes no sense.

If the new coach can run a halfway decent PP, I think we'll all be a lot happier with Del Zotto.

Hopefully the new coach will recusitate his game, but I agree with you if we got an overwhelming offer for him..

 

[KreiMeARiver*]

I think that is why most want him traded. That and we have a plethora of LHD.

If any deal comes up for a player like Landeskog or Eberle for MDZ+, you do it 100/100 times. I would just rather give Staal+ than MDZ+ at this point.

A. I find the notion that a 22 year old D-man has plateaued to be ridiculous. His defense has come a long way, already, and I think his offense has a lot of room for growth, especially in the right system.

B. If you think any deal for Landeskog or Ebs would cost simply "MDZ +", then your pipe must be graced with some primo stuff.

 

[Trxjw]

The fact of the matter is that some players simply peak at a young age. I know we all like to think that players will grow into their mid or even late twenties, but sometimes a player just peaks early and what you see is what you get.

Now, that being said, MDZ was a very, very good player last season. Better than he was this year. So I don't see any reason he can't regain last years form, and last years' form ain't nothing to sneeze at. A responsible #3 defender who can generate offense from the back end. 23 years old and cost-controlled for a few more years. That's a valuable commodity in the NHL today. He's only on the block because Staal is a better option on the 2nd pairing and that we need scoring up front.

 

[TheTakedown]

I think his big problem is intimidation around forwards chasing him.. he won't take a hit... Moore takes the same hit 9/10 times.

Mdz does have a good ability to skate the puck in (like McDonough)

Moore skates much better than MDZ... I feel like he has a better shot... regardless, I do think Moore will be a better defensemen than MDZ over his career

 

[Green Blob*]

I think his big problem is intimidation around forwards chasing him.. he won't take a hit... Moore takes the same hit 9/10 times.

Mdz does have a good ability to skate the puck in (like McDonough)

Moore skates much better than MDZ... I feel like he has a better shot... regardless, I do think Moore will be a better defensemen than MDZ over his career

I think most will agree. Moores ceiling is definitely higher and is the safer choice.

 

[eco's bones]

MDZ:

2009-10 80gp-9g-28a-37p-32pm----on the pwp Rangers scored 55 total MDZ had 4g-18a-22p.
2010-11 47gp-2g--9a-11p--20pm---on the pwp Rangers scored 49 total MDZ had 2g--5a--7p.
2011-12 77gp-10g-31a-41p-36pm---on the pwp Rangers scored 44 total MDZ had 1g-13a-14p.
2012-13 46gp-3g--18a-21p-18pm---on the pwp Rangers scored 24 total MDA had 0g-- 8a -8p.

Pro rated DZ's point totals this year would be around what he had in his rookie season 2009-10. Since his first season he's not contributed a lot of offense on our pwp. His average pwp time in his first three seasons was steady--3:49 per game in 09-10, 3:45 in 10-11, 4:11 in 11-12 and dropped this past year to 2:54. His offense in his first three seasons pro-rates into a full season in the high 30's--like in his rookie season.

IMO his offense looks to have plateaued when you consider--take away his average velocity and not all that accurate shot--it's not something that he's going to score from his point position very often without traffic in front--he's pretty easy to figure out for penalty killing defenses.

His defense is the area he has improved in but he is nowhere near as good as either McDonagh or Staal on the left side. His offense (bread and butter of his game) has not improved--it's stagnant--high 30's. Rangers pwp in the meantime has gone down each of the last 4 years from 55 to 49 to 44 to 24--prorated this years total for an 82 game scheduled would have been 41.

Our most offensively gifted d-man is a 35-40 point a year player--his shot and ability to produce on the pwp does not give me a lot of confidence that it's going to improve. The Pens have Letang, the Isles have had Streit, Boston has Chara and now they have Krug and there's at least a couple more etc.'s. The Caps have Green, Canadiens Markov, Subban, the Sens Karlsson. All these guys are far ahead of Del Zotto as point producers and pwp productive players.

 

[ltrangerfan]

MDZ:

2009-10 80gp-9g-28a-37p-32pm----on the pwp Rangers scored 55 total MDZ had 4g-18a-22p.
2010-11 47gp-2g--9a-11p--20pm---on the pwp Rangers scored 49 total MDZ had 2g--5a--7p.
2011-12 77gp-10g-31a-41p-36pm---on the pwp Rangers scored 44 total MDZ had 1g-13a-14p.
2012-13 46gp-3g--18a-21p-18pm---on the pwp Rangers scored 24 total MDA had 0g-- 8a -8p.

Pro rated DZ's point totals this year would be around what he had in his rookie season 2009-10. Since his first season he's not contributed a lot of offense on our pwp. His average pwp time in his first three seasons was steady--3:49 per game in 09-10, 3:45 in 10-11, 4:11 in 11-12 and dropped this past year to 2:54. His offense in his first three seasons pro-rates into a full season in the high 30's--like in his rookie season.

IMO his offense looks to have plateaued when you consider--take away his average velocity and not all that accurate shot--it's not something that he's going to score from his point position very often without traffic in front--he's pretty easy to figure out for penalty killing defenses.

His defense is the area he has improved in but he is nowhere near as good as either McDonagh or Staal on the left side. His offense (bread and butter of his game) has not improved--it's stagnant--high 30's. Rangers pwp in the meantime has gone down each of the last 4 years from 55 to 49 to 44 to 24--prorated this years total for an 82 game scheduled would have been 41.

Our most offensively gifted d-man is a 35-40 point a year player--his shot and ability to produce on the pwp does not give me a lot of confidence that it's going to improve. The Pens have Letang, the Isles have had Streit, Boston has Chara and now they have Krug and there's at least a couple more etc.'s. The Caps have Green, Canadiens Markov, Subban, the Sens Karlsson. All these guys are far ahead of Del Zotto as point producers and pwp productive players.

Not to promote or denigrate MDZ but....

The numbers might be a bit misleading? If the Rangers had someone who could score off a pass on the PP (deflections or shooting) then the assists from the point would start to add up. As I view it MDZ might be the problem and/ or it might be the group who shares the ice with him?

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

Not to promote or denigrate MDZ but....

The numbers might be a bit misleading? If the Rangers had someone who could score off a pass on the PP (deflections or shooting) then the assists from the point would start to add up. As I view it MDZ might be the problem and/ or it might be the group who shares the ice with him?

Played the best hockey of his career on the PP with Kotalik bombing it. That was a brutal signing, but the man can shoot. No one on the current team has that tool nowadays.

 

[KreidertheGlider]

A. I find the notion that a 22 year old D-man has plateaued to be ridiculous. His defense has come a long way, already, and I think his offense has a lot of room for growth, especially in the right system.

B. If you think any deal for Landeskog or Ebs would cost simply "MDZ +", then your pipe must be graced with some primo stuff.

I am only going off of what other posters have mentioned. I realize the + would be significant

 

[cd211]

hes an excellent player.. to argue he peaked is silly.. hes 22! look at Keith, look at Jaybo, campbell.. hell even look at how tyler meyers regressed and the deal hes signed too..they all (except meyers) we're so much older when they burst onto the scene.. all in 25-28yrs old.. noway i would give up on him.. i think so mcuh of how he played was bc of torts.. he seemed tentative and scared to screw up like most players.. new coach should be like a rebirth for all.. however....

id be willing to trade dz+ for a young fwd eberle, kane, ryan etc..

 

[Son of Steinbrenner]

hes an excellent player.. to argue he peaked is silly.. hes 22! look at Keith, look at Jaybo, campbell.. hell even look at how tyler meyers regressed and the deal hes signed too..they all (except meyers) we're so much older when they burst onto the scene.. all in 25-28yrs old.. noway i would give up on him.. i think so mcuh of how he played was bc of torts.. he seemed tentative and scared to screw up like most players.. new coach should be like a rebirth for all.. however....

id be willing to trade dz+ for a young fwd eberle, kane, ryan etc..

Del Zotto + what equals Eberle, Kane, Ryan?

It's very likely if the Rangers trade for Kane or Ryan Del Zotto WILL BE the + in the deal. No way the Rangers can even make that move because of the lower salary cap.

 

[Boruto]

Del Zotto + The MSG Chase Bridge

 

[KreidertheGlider]

Del Zotto + what equals Eberle, Kane, Ryan?

It's very likely if the Rangers trade for Kane or Ryan Del Zotto WILL BE the + in the deal. No way the Rangers can even make that move because of the lower salary cap.

I think MDZ, Kreider, and a 2014 2nd would get Eberle or Kane. I don't want Ryan.

 

[eco's bones]

My argument is he may have peaked not that he has peaked. Time will tell on that. In any case his offensive numbers really haven't improved since his rookie season and the team's pwp production has decreased each of his 4 years from 55 to a pro-rated 41. In all that time he's gotten significant time on the pwp--discounting his rookie year--the last 3 years he's played 170 games and contributed 3 goals and 26 assists for our pwp. Guys like Karlsson, Subban, Markov, Keith, Doughty, Green etc. etc. easily surpass those kinds of numbers. Without doubt he is not entirely to blame for a bad pwp but OTOH it can't be argued that he's not a regular go to guy.

Why I think his offense may have plateaued centers somewhat around those pwp numbers. Rangers do not have a big shot from the point and he's playing it more often than not--he's not scoring goals--his shot is mediocre--he's trying to set them up. Other teams at this stage have figured all that out--they'll pressure him but they don't have to focus on him. As far as ice time otherwise he's behind Staal and McDonagh in the pecking order. I think for the forseeable future 35-40 points is about what he's going to do and it's not enough--and there's another issue coming up--his next contract after next season. Currently at a $2.55 mil cap hit--have to figure he'll be getting in the range of $3.5 mil if his numbers and the rest of his play stay more or less the same. If he does make major improvement the cap hit will probably go even higher. If they're going to keep the current defense corps the Rangers are going to be paying more for their defenders in the coming years--it's coming time to choose.

 

[SupersonicMonkey*]

The biggest things holding him back are his legs and his brain. Average at-best skater, average at-best IQ. Couple that with no composure when the pressure is on.

 

[Vickers8]

The biggest things holding him back are his legs and his brain. Average at-best skater, average at-best IQ. Couple that with no composure when the pressure is on.

Shot accuracy too, wide left, wide right

 

[NYR Viper]

It's his foot speed, which is the reason he fell so far in his draft year. He has not been able to get better in that area.

 

[eco's bones]

DZ is a good player. He'd fit in very well with most teams. One of the main problems here is he has Staal and McDonagh ahead of him on the left side and it's not even close. On any given night both of those players should be clocking in with 25 minutes each---and then Moore appears more than adequate for the rest. Maybe this conversation never gets started if Moore hadn't come here. His overall game--the tools Moore has shown so far do remind of another McDonagh--the comments about him getting sheltered minutes could be said for DZ as well as DZ is not the guy who gets shutdown assignments.

Another thought is that McDonagh might turn into a better offensive player than Del Zotto--his skillset seems more untapped. A better and more accurate shot. More ability to change angles and get his shots through to the net. Against Boston he was the d-man more than any other attacking and keeping plays alive. One can envision him down the road getting 45-50 points a year while still providing excellent defense. He's a hell of a player.

 

[Trxjw]

It's his foot speed, which is the reason he fell so far in his draft year. He has not been able to get better in that area.

Well, the primary reason he fell was because scouts felt he had no clue how to play defense and wasn't making an attempt to better himself in his own zone. Skating is certainly an issue though.

I dunno. I feel like after the Rangers brought him up originally there was a lot of "we finally have a PP QB" talk while he was teeing up shots for Kotalik to bomb from the point. However, once the PP cooled off and teams realized it was a one-trick pony, the "we need a QB" stuff picked up again. Then Richards was brought in and Del Zotto's confidence took a nose dive. I think he wanted that role but a number of organizational decisions really broke him down. Wouldn't be surprised to see him go elsewhere and really take off.

 

[SupersonicMonkey*]

I just question that if Moore was so much better than MDZ in most facets of the game, why was he traded? Why has he never averaged over 20 MPG on the freaking Blue Jackets? Why is his AHL point production mediocre despite having better offensive tools? How is he suddenly better on the PP, when he's only been on the ice for 1 PPGF? Classic overrating of a shiny new toy. Sure Moore could have some better tools, but MDZ is just a plain better hockey player.

Again. There could be any number of reasons why he didn't get more of an opportunity in Columbus. Why was he traded? Because they wanted to acquire a guy named Gaborik, and Gorton and Clark wanted Moore specifically as part of the return package.

Torey Krug played one regular season game, does that mean he won't be a better player? Seth Jones hasn't been drafted yet, that means he won't be a better playe? Your argument is missing substance. The basis is "shiny new toy". OK. Moore is still more intelligent, still a FAR better skater, still doesn't get as frazzled under pressure, and still has a better shot from the point. And fact still remains Del Zotto is going to get paid and he's #3 at-best on the left side of our defense, with McDonagh and Staal ahead of him. Del Zotto was rushed to the NHL at 19. Moore wasn't. It doesn't matter what each development path was. They're both in the same place now.

Since Moore's arrival, including playoffs, Moore scored one less point and was a +9 while Del Zotto -3.

When the time comes for a trade, Del Zotto is going to get moved before Moore. Its simple logic. Based on cost and role. The same way Gaborik was a casualty. Del Zotto is going to eventually be a casualty.

That's not "shiny toy".

The only way its not Del Zotto is if a couple of factors play into Staal being moved (eye, and Carolina/brothers). If neither is an issue, then there is no way they move their top shut-down, alternate captain, all-star caliber defenseman in favor of an inconsistent, brain-fart laden defenseman that may or may not decide to put it all together.

 

[Vickers8]

DZ is a good player. He'd fit in very well with most teams. One of the main problems here is he has Staal and McDonagh ahead of him on the left side and it's not even close. On any given night both of those players should be clocking in with 25 minutes each---and then Moore appears more than adequate for the rest. Maybe this conversation never gets started if Moore hadn't come here. His overall game--the tools Moore has shown so far do remind of another McDonagh--the comments about him getting sheltered minutes could be said for DZ as well as DZ is not the guy who gets shutdown assignments.

Another thought is that McDonagh might turn into a better offensive player than Del Zotto--his skillset seems more untapped. A better and more accurate shot. More ability to change angles and get his shots through to the net. Against Boston he was the d-man more than any other attacking and keeping plays alive. One can envision him down the road getting 45-50 points a year while still providing excellent defense. He's a hell of a player.

I agree about McD if he can get to 45-50 pts he will be in the Norris Trophy talk