The Michael Del Zotto is a delsaster.

[LeetchisGod]

Yup. One big game and he's at the same pace. And he was a rock defensively playing 20+ minutes a night all season.

He had a bad playoffs, we get it. People here are simply incapable of evaluating a players body of work over a full season.

He's had two straight bad playoffs. He is a good player but he probably has the most trade value of guys that we would be willing to part with. You have to give to get. The single biggest problem on this team is our putrid offense. No one is saying we should trade him for a bag of pucks. But if he can return a young top six forward and possibly other assets, you make the deal.

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

How many teams are out there that made the playoffs the last two years icing a 21-22 year old defense men and won a couple of playoff rounds with said defenseman playing 23 mins a night?

How many of them avg. around .5PPG? How many teams are out there that have cost controlled defensemen that play top 4 mins & made the playoffs?

Rangers have DZ, and McD. How many players like that exist? Yeah his value is high... and that's why.

How many games has John Moore played 20+ mins a night in the NHL, and how many of those games did his team win?

Has he proved that he can handle a top 4 role on a winning team for two straight years?

Didn't work out in CLB... and when Moore played top 4 min in the playoffs.. did the Rangers win? I don't recall that happening.

Best part is... they are all blueshirts, and it would make reasonable sense to ice a 6 defensemen that can play top 4 minutes and expect it to be a winning formula.

Why are people lacking the sensibility to not to want to ice the best set of defense men in the league? Are the NYR poor like Nashville... or is it just the fans that think that way?

Well said.

The one thing he really has to work on is the mental game. It seems when things aren't going well his lack of confidence gets to him. Kind of reminds me a bit or Darryl Sydor or John Slaney in that regard.

 

[ltrangerfan]

He's had two straight bad playoffs. He is a good player but he probably has the most trade value of guys that we would be willing to part with. You have to give to get. The single biggest problem on this team is our putrid offense. No one is saying we should trade him for a bag of pucks. But if he can return a young top six forward and possibly other assets, you make the deal.

+ 1

I believe that summarizes my view perfectly.

At present, is DZ a top 4 Dman or a dman playing top 4 minutes when other are out? Is Stralman a top 3 Dman on any other team? If so, then we just saw what an improving Dman really looks like. At present, DZ is a 5-6 23 year old Dman with a possible upside. No one can guarantee what level DZ will be playing in 4-5 years. I do know that in 4-5 yrs Lundy will be 35-36.
Nash will be 33-34. Girardi will be 33-34. Staal will be 31-32. The Rangers need more offense (especially a shooter who can QB the PP and get shots through to the net). Time is working against the nucleus. If a trade of DZ can bring the team closer to what they really need a risk needs to be taken. If the Rangers can't acquire much in return for DZ then they should keep the pucks they have.

 

[SupersonicMonkey*]

Somehow John Moore is better than MDZ at every facet of the game, yet he's been getting fringe dman minutes in his NHL career.

99 game career (not including playoffs), 13 of them in a Ranger uniform, and he already challenged Del Zotto for minutes here in New York.

Entirely different situations these two were in. Moore was in a mess in Columbus. I don't care what reasons he wasn't able to play more to his capabilities in Columbus. He's in a place where he can now and he's begun to blossom. Particularly in the playoffs where Del Zotto regressed two consecutive seasons.

I don't care what Del Zotto's stats are. I see the game with my eyes. Moore's intelligence and decision making is already ahead of Del Zotto's, despite having a much smaller body of work. Moore's skating is on another level. Neither of those facts can be argued. Moore's shot gets through traffic. His shot is heavier than Del Zotto's. It gets on net. His positioning is better.

Did I list "all facets of the game"? No. I simply listed the facets in which Moore is more competent then Del Zotto.

Does having Del Zotto on the point on the power play make it more effective? Has the power play at all been effective with him? No is the answer. Could that be coaching? Sure, its possible. But a coach doesn't make Del Zotto turn the puck over and make poor decisions.

Does Del Zotto have skill? Yes. Is he strong and willing to play physical? Yes. Has he improved in his own end? Yes. That doesn't mean the Rangers should do everything in their power to hold onto him as his contract increases. It will increase.

McDonagh, Staal, Girardi are far more important than Del Zotto. McDonagh and Staal will be locked in on the left side for the foreseeable future. Staal desiring Carolina is an erroneous concept. Del Zotto is awful on the right side. That makes him an expensive third pair defenseman at even strength that will log a bunch of power play minutes, a power play that as of now has been entirely ineffective and he's been just as much of a reason for that as any other player. He has trade value. There are more important RFAs to sign. The cap is going down. The Rangers need to start scoring goals. They need more quality depth up front. They have quality depth on the back end without Del Zotto in future plans.

You have to give to get in this league.

Del Zotto doesn't make or break this club's success. Stepan, McDonagh, Staal, Girardi, Callahan, and especially Lundqvist do. And they all need new contracts soon. Staal's absence in the playoffs was magnified. The Rangers "got by" in the regular season without him the last two years. The regular season isn't the playoffs. His impact is huge. More so then Del Zotto's.

No one is suggesting kicking him out the door. But trading him for a couple of pieces to make the roster deeper and stronger. Making it unnecessary to delve into unrestricted free agency to over pay players to fill positions above their heads. It would also make it less necessary to over pay a slow and declining Clowe. The return package for Del Zotto could have the same effect as the return package from the Gaborik trade.

Del Zotto has shown flashes of offensive brilliance. He's also shown flashes of unbearable stupidity. Not uncommon amongst young defensemen.

Would I be just as happy if they hold onto him? Yes. Ultimately all I want is for the club to improve and win the Stanley Cup and maintain sustained success through the years. I don't care if that happens with or without Del Zotto.

 

[Mikos87]

Well said.

The one thing he really has to work on is the mental game. It seems when things aren't going well his lack of confidence gets to him. Kind of reminds me a bit or Darryl Sydor or John Slaney in that regard.

Yeah he does show signs of inconsistency. I get that the Powerplay sucks and DZ's been out there, but the PP has sucked for years under Torts and Co.

I fail to understand what people are saying in terms of defensive liability. Defensemen that are poor defensively don't play above 15 min a night mark in the NHL. It simply does not happen on teams that make the playoffs. It doesn't, and if you think it does, go watch EDM or Calgary.

I don't think the team needs more scoring forwards, but rather a top 10 PK and PP. 5 on 5 play with the Rangers is just fine, and that has a lot to do with being able to ice minute munching defensemen who don't make mistake after mistake.

And special teams play comes down to coaching. The caps made the playoffs because of their filthy PP, and Adam Oates, one of the best PP players ever, was drawing up the diagrams.

 

[RangerBoy]

I like a lot of what DZ brings when he's on his game. He, despite what some people will lead you to believe, is actually a very smart player. His problem is not a "lack of hockey sense". His problem is confidence (and skating ability). He lacks poise. Not overly concerning for a 23 year old defenseman, IMO, regardless of the fact that he's been in the league for three years. Most defenseman don't hit their prime until around 26/27. The fact that DZ has been a serviceable top-4 defenseman these past two years at age 22 and 23 means that he's already ahead of the curve, development wise. For all of the fuss over a player like Gardiner, he's from the same draft as DZ and hasn't managed to hold down a spot, even on a poor blueline like Toronto's.

The tools to be a very good offensive defenseman are there. He showed a lot of promise in the 11-12 season. I think a lot of players struggled this season, not just Del Zotto. McDonagh wasn't at his best until the playoffs, same goes for Girardi. I'd like to see what he can do under a new coach, in a full season.

That being said, I do believe that Sather/Gorton should be shopping him around the draft for a young, top-6 scorer. If they can't get that in return for DZ, then I'd be perfectly fine with keeping him and seeing if he can flourish with a team that (hopefully) has some stability headed into next season and a good, new coach.

Jake Gardiner has been a pro for 2 years. DZ completed his 4th season. He is still makes the same mistakes. Gardiner was sidetracked with the concussion this season. Gardiner>DZ. Gardiner can play both sides with ease. He played the right side with McDonagh on the left in 09-10. DZ is horror on the right side. A healthy left side next season. McD,Staal,DZ and Moore. DZ moves to the right side? That's going to really raise his value.

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

Are we going to continue to gloss over Staal's eye injury and how important it is to this discussion?

For starters, theres a faction that wants to trade Staal over MDZ that are operating under the falsehood that we have a healthy Staal on our hands that will yield a successful return. When, in actuality, we have a player that suffered a major eye injury, couldnt play in the playoffs, and has admitted his eyesight will never be 100% again. Wheres the value there?

Perhaps more importantly, what happens if/when the Rangers trade MDZ for a forward and Staal isnt ready to play next season? Blue line depth, which isnt exactly an embarrassment of riches in the first place, is depleted even more.

 

[Trxjw]

I think most people realize that if we move Del Zotto and do not get an additional defender back, we're going to have to make another move to shore up the blue line. A RH, PP QB has been a need and will continue to be a need even if Del Zotto remains with the Rangers for another year. We need a dynamic presence on the back end. Del Zotto has lost a lot of his mojo and I don't envision him finding it again here.

If you move Del Zotto, you can still fill in the hole in the event that Staal isn't healthy to begin the season.

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

I think most people realize that if we move Del Zotto and do not get an additional defender back, we're going to have to make another move to shore up the blue line. A RH, PP QB has been a need and will continue to be a need even if Del Zotto remains with the Rangers for another year. We need a dynamic presence on the back end. Del Zotto has lost a lot of his mojo and I don't envision him finding it again here.

If you move Del Zotto, you can still fill in the hole in the event that Staal isn't healthy to begin the season.

Lots of question marks there. I just think the ingredients are there for a problem down the road.

A coach coming on that will be pretty much mandated to open up the offense. Serious questions on defense outside of McDonagh and Girardi. I don't buy the "Yea, but we have Hank" excuse to gloss over some defensive problems that seem to be on the horizon.

 

[RangerBoy]

Staal couldn't play because of a small tear in the eye had no healed. The eye pressure couldn't regulate. Time is the only remedy. They tried changing drops and other medications so he could play with the tear until it heals. Nothing changed. All of the medical experts here thought Staal had suffered a concussion on the Brouwer hit. Torts said the doctors expect Marc to be ready to play when camp opens. Staal said the same thing.

 

[Trxjw]

Lots of question marks there. I just think the ingredients are there for a problem down the road.

A coach coming on that will be pretty much mandated to open up the offense. Serious questions on defense outside of McDonagh and Girardi. I don't buy the "Yea, but we have Hank" excuse to gloss over some defensive problems that seem to be on the horizon.

It can go either way. Anytime you make a trade you potentially open yourself up for problems, but I think there are viable candidates out there who could step in and absorb the loss of Del Zotto. Staal is certainly a question mark, as is the ceiling of Moore, but I don't think they're insurmountable by any means.

All of it really depends on the coach and the strategy moving forward.

 

[eco's bones]

Staal hasn't lost vision in his eye--he's having a problem with it. It was at least close enough at one point where he was almost back during the playoffs. The much greater probability is that he's ready to go at training camp and if not then Moore can step into a top 4 spot if MDZ has been moved. I don't know what the problem is with that. Del Zotto is no great shakes as a defender. Defensively he is somewhere around average. Moore has better size and strength--is faster and more mobile. Del Zotto isn't the glue holding our defense together.

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

Staal hasn't lost vision in his eye--he's having a problem with it. It was at least close enough at one point where he was almost back during the playoffs. The much greater probability is that he's ready to go at training camp and if not then Moore can step into a top 4 spot if MDZ has been moved. I don't know what the problem is with that. Del Zotto is no great shakes as a defender. Defensively he is somewhere around average. Moore has better size and strength--is faster and more mobile. Del Zotto isn't the glue holding our defense together.

I think inserting Moore into the top 4 is a huge leap at this point. Hes got some major tools, and I think those masked some serious fundamental flaws in his own end. This defense is still young, and Im apprehensive to make too many changes until we really know what we have in Moore.

This team should be adding to the current crop on the blueline, not subtracting.

 

[eco's bones]

I think inserting Moore into the top 4 is a huge leap at this point. Hes got some major tools, and I think those masked some serious fundamental flaws in his own end. This defense is still young, and Im apprehensive to make too many changes until we really know what we have in Moore.

This team should be adding to the current crop on the blueline, not subtracting.

Moore came in during the stretch run and played against a bunch of weak teams but did really well. He was decent in the playoffs--not really good, not really bad. Compared to Del Zotto who was subpar last playoffs and was stinking out the joint at least against the Bruins.

Del Zotto is no great shakes as a defender--it's somewhat mitigated by his ability to create offense--at times. He is inconsistent--whether or not it's just a confidence issue is another question. Some of the argument that he is a better player seems to generate from the fact that he has had more NHL experience. It's almost a so what to me. Torts was continually breaking up his d-pairs vs. the Bruins more or less to try and help him out. All things being equal had Staal been healthy talking about him as a top 4 d-man would not even be a conversation.

When we're talking about a defenseman who is somewhat of a liability on defense being a real asset to his team--no matter the age--than that defenseman is going to have to do other things well. On a legit contender you'd want at least one guy with a big shot--who can run at least a respectable pwp that produces at a decent clip but his offense has not improved over the years--our pwp if anything is worse than the day he joined the team. He's not the sole reason for the dismal results we've been getting from that but I don't buy that's all on Torts--like quite a number here would have it. Sometimes these guys need to be held accountable.

The thing is DZ has not turned into a big offensive threat. If we're happy with his average 40 points year in and year out well that's fine I suppose but those teams with good pwp's are getting a hell of a lot more production out of their main point men. So the question to me is--exactly where is DZ's game going? I don't really see it going much further than it has but I do it see him scoring a fairly significant contract/cap hit the next go around. Anyway I'm not arguing to give him away. I'm arguing to move him for a young top 6 quality forward that our teams likes or something of that nature. If we can't come up with a good fit out of all that then we don't move him.

 

[Kwayry]

Not even the majority of Leafs fans believe Gardiner > DZ.
DZ has outproduced, outhit Gardiner at younger age and continues to do so. Gardiner spent most of the season at the AHL level while the Leafs D needed help.
Gardiner's best (and only full) NHL season was last year: 30 points, 50 hits.
That's below DZ's production 3 out of 4 NHL years.

They are both 22, yet for some reason DZ will stop progressing but Gardiner will not.

 

[KreidertheGlider]

Who gets more return in a trade?

Staal or MDZ?

Personally I think Staal will return more and is more expendable.

I think that is the largest question. Another question we should ask ourselves is if we need a top 6 winger or Top 4 RHD more.

I think we need the RHD more.

McD Girardi
MDZ. ??????
Moore. Stralman


Better blue line than what we have at the moment depending on who we get in return.


Top 6 winger:

Hags Stepan Nash
?????? brassard zuccarello
Kreider ?????? Cally
??????? Asham ?????????

This is probably our lineup next year call up some prospects etc
And if Staal isn't ready we have Moore playing top 4 minutes

 

[ltrangerfan]

Who gets more return in a trade?

Staal or MDZ?

Personally I think Staal will return more and is more expendable.

I think that is the largest question. Another question we should ask ourselves is if we need a top 6 winger or Top 4 RHD more.

I think we need the RHD more.

McD Girardi
MDZ. ??????
Moore. Stralman


Better blue line than what we have at the moment depending on who we get in return.


Top 6 winger:

Hags Stepan Nash
?????? brassard zuccarello
Kreider ?????? Cally
??????? Asham ?????????

This is probably our lineup next year call up some prospects etc
And if Staal isn't ready we have Moore playing top 4 minutes

If staal isn't 100% his trade value is little.

If Staal is perfectly healthy then who starts as a first pairing/ 2nd line defeseman (MDZ or Staal)? Why would anyone consider moving a 26 yr old Staal which will greatly weaken the Rangers D?

MDZ might or might not have much of a future but as of now he is not not a force in the NHL. As of now there is no question who is of more value to the Rangers.

If the goal is to improve the offense / need a PP then why not trade lundy who has the greatest trade value?

Losing Staal would simply create another hole in the team.

 

[NYR Viper]

Who gets more return in a trade?

Staal or MDZ?

Personally I think Staal will return more and is more expendable.

I think that is the largest question. Another question we should ask ourselves is if we need a top 6 winger or Top 4 RHD more.

I think we need the RHD more.

McD Girardi
MDZ. ??????
Moore. Stralman


Better blue line than what we have at the moment depending on who we get in return.


Top 6 winger:

Hags Stepan Nash
?????? brassard zuccarello
Kreider ?????? Cally
??????? Asham ?????????

This is probably our lineup next year call up some prospects etc
And if Staal isn't ready we have Moore playing top 4 minutes

Also, who is the easier player to replace? That answer is simple. Del Zotto. Get what you can for him

 

[Vickers8]

Also, who is the easier player to replace? That answer is simple. Del Zotto. Get what you can for him

Funny how most people would agree, right now Moore's skill, speed, shot and upside is greater than MDZ, therefore MDZ would definitely go 1st in a trade

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

Funny how most people would agree, right now Moore's skill, speed, shot and upside is greater than MDZ, therefore MDZ would definitely go 1st in a trade

I think most people were captivated with Moore's tools in his limited/sheltered minutes when he first came over.

As the games got tougher and his minutes went up, the warts began to show.

So, no, I am not ready to say that Moore is or will be a better player than Del Zotto.

 

[KreidertheGlider]

If staal isn't 100% his trade value is little.

If Staal is perfectly healthy then who starts as a first pairing/ 2nd line defeseman (MDZ or Staal)? Why would anyone consider moving a 26 yr old Staal which will greatly weaken the Rangers D?

MDZ might or might not have much of a future but as of now he is not not a force in the NHL. As of now there is no question who is of more value to the Rangers.

If the goal is to improve the offense / need a PP then why not trade lundy who has the greatest trade value?

Losing Staal would simply create another hole in the team.

Mcdonagh is a good 1st pairing defenseman. MDZ slots in the 2nd pair. And there are many questions as to staals future. Will he be healthy in the short and long run? And will he boot to the canes after his contract. Looking towards the future, MDZ is a much better option to keep.

 

[NYR Viper]

I think most people were captivated with Moore's tools in his limited/sheltered minutes when he first came over.

As the games got tougher and his minutes went up, the warts began to show.

So, no, I am not ready to say that Moore is or will be a better player than Del Zotto.

Ah, but is Staal better for this team than MDZ? Because Moore is a more than competent 3rd pairing LD at this point.

 

[Vickers8]

I think most people were captivated with Moore's tools in his limited/sheltered minutes when he first came over.

As the games got tougher and his minutes went up, the warts began to show.

So, no, I am not ready to say that Moore is or will be a better player than Del Zotto.

I understand your opinion, but I don't think that MDZ has progressed as hoped, maybe the new coach will help, Moore with more experience and a chance, which he really didn't get in Columbus has tremendous upside, by the way I would keep them both...

 

[eco's bones]

Mcdonagh is a good 1st pairing defenseman. MDZ slots in the 2nd pair. And there are many questions as to staals future. Will he be healthy in the short and long run? And will he boot to the canes after his contract. Looking towards the future, MDZ is a much better option to keep.

Staal at 75% is still a much better defenseman than Del Zotto. MDZ has never had a shutdown assignment. Staal thrives on them.

Del Zotto so far has topped out at 41 points. Staal is usually in the 30 range. Those 10 or so extra points that Del Zotto might put up don't make up for all the assignments that Staal has had against the likes of the Crosby's, Malkin's and Ovechkin's.

 

[Vickers8]

Staal at 75% is still a much better defenseman than Del Zotto. MDZ has never had a shutdown assignment. Staal thrives on them.

Del Zotto so far has topped out at 41 points. Staal is usually in the 30 range. Those 10 or so extra points that Del Zotto might put up don't make up for all the assignments that Staal has had against the likes of the Crosby's, Malkin's and Ovechkin's.

I actually think they play well together, but it's rough on Staal covering up for him all the time