What was the trade the Carolina board wanted to do? Staal for Skinner + ?
I'm not sure if I could give up Staal but who knows maybe they all want to play together.
The Michael Del Zotto is a delsaster.
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What was the trade the Carolina board wanted to do? Staal for Skinner + ?
I'm not sure if I could give up Staal but who knows maybe they all want to play together.
Nac Mac Feegle
wee & free
- Jun 10, 2011
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I think that Del Zotto might benefit the most from an offensive minded coach. But at the same time, he can garner a lot in a trade. If the return is an offensive RHD that can QB the powerplay, then I consider trading DZ. If the return is a package similar to Goligoski (btw that was a terrible trade that is unlikely to be replicated), then yeah I move DZ. But I think DZ is the most gifted of the defensemen on the roster, and one that would benefit from having the reigns loosened up.
At the same time he is getting closer and closer to being the whipping boy on the back end by the average Ranger fan. Running DZ out of town is a mistake because you aren't going to replace his skill set, so why not get the most out of it with a new coach?
Remember you need some experience to win in the playoffs, trading him for prospects and picks is a big step back. John Moore was responsible for two OT goal this playoffs cause he didn't tie up sticks in front of the net when he was playing DZ'z mins.
At least DZ shored up that end of the game. But DZ needs to work on his skating, I don't think he was the same after the Methot hit, and hip injury. He's played with a bad hip when Staal was out last year, and this. Give him some credit for stepping up.
At the same time he is getting closer and closer to being the whipping boy on the back end by the average Ranger fan. Running DZ out of town is a mistake because you aren't going to replace his skill set, so why not get the most out of it with a new coach?
Remember you need some experience to win in the playoffs, trading him for prospects and picks is a big step back. John Moore was responsible for two OT goal this playoffs cause he didn't tie up sticks in front of the net when he was playing DZ'z mins.
At least DZ shored up that end of the game. But DZ needs to work on his skating, I don't think he was the same after the Methot hit, and hip injury. He's played with a bad hip when Staal was out last year, and this. Give him some credit for stepping up.
Again, the NY fan base has no patience. They want to run every 22 year old out of town who has growing pains. They also blame people for losing games that don't lose games. The thickhead coach and incompetent play from Richards and Nash lost this team playoff games. Not MDZ. Even with him making some mistakes, the defense and goaltending was more than good enough to win in the playoffs.
No way we should trade Del Zotto this offseason. Lets see how he and Moore look next season, if Moore looks like the real deal and Del Zotto still struggles then I might consider moving him but not this offseason, not this draft.
I'd be open to NY moving MDZ for the right player or prospect. With the guys coming up through the pipeline, I feel he can replaced. Logan Pyett had another good season in CT, Big Mac might be ready to compete for a spot, Conor Allen was signed as a FA out of NCAA, Calle Anderson, Brady Skjei, Sam Noreau all in the pipline as well. Even if none of them are ready for a full run next season, I have no problem with Eminger as #6 D.
Girardi-McD
Staal - Stralman
Moore-Eminger (Pyett, Mcilrath, Allen, other NHL #6 Dman)
Out of all D-men currently on the team, I felt most comfortable when the puck was on the stick of McD, Strals, Staal and Moore anyway. MDZ was too sloppy with his decision making. I say move him while there is still value in his potential.
Girardi-McD
Staal - Stralman
Moore-Eminger (Pyett, Mcilrath, Allen, other NHL #6 Dman)
Out of all D-men currently on the team, I felt most comfortable when the puck was on the stick of McD, Strals, Staal and Moore anyway. MDZ was too sloppy with his decision making. I say move him while there is still value in his potential.
KreidertheGlider
MDZ for NYR Blueline
HatTrick Swayze
Just Be Nice
The issue for me is that I have a hard time seeing how Del Zotto is going to get better. Maybe that's a bit to harsh. I could see him getting better. But he has one of the most difficult roads to improvement because IMO his #1 problem is between his ears. Beyond his decision making, his mental resiliency is a real issue.
I know many will say that a new coach could give him confidence, give him life and reinvigorate him. Or that he could be taught how to stop making the mistakes he does and how to utilize his instincts. I think that's fair and I think both of those things could happen. But eventually, whether its in 5 games or 5 years he will encounter an obstacle again. Will he ever be fully able to remain even-keeled when that happens? Or will he need an offseason or new coach again to regain form and right the ship?
It's something that's impossible to answer of course. No doubt the Rangers could get burned moving him. Risk factor in moving Del Zotto is extremely high. But when you factor in average skating, inconsistent decision making, and (worst of all) a completely useless shot, you could also argue that it may be time to strike if the right deal comes along.
I would not trade him for a (non top-3, maaaaaaybe top 4/5) draft pick. Or a completely unproven commodity. But if he can upgrade the roster I think you have to consider it.
I know many will say that a new coach could give him confidence, give him life and reinvigorate him. Or that he could be taught how to stop making the mistakes he does and how to utilize his instincts. I think that's fair and I think both of those things could happen. But eventually, whether its in 5 games or 5 years he will encounter an obstacle again. Will he ever be fully able to remain even-keeled when that happens? Or will he need an offseason or new coach again to regain form and right the ship?
It's something that's impossible to answer of course. No doubt the Rangers could get burned moving him. Risk factor in moving Del Zotto is extremely high. But when you factor in average skating, inconsistent decision making, and (worst of all) a completely useless shot, you could also argue that it may be time to strike if the right deal comes along.
I would not trade him for a (non top-3, maaaaaaybe top 4/5) draft pick. Or a completely unproven commodity. But if he can upgrade the roster I think you have to consider it.
I don't know if he's a proven top 4 d-man now but still has the potential, which is where is trade value would come from. I don't have a specific prospect in mind, but if you can provide a list of prospects that GM's might be interested in moving for a potential top 4 dman, then I'll give you a few of my personal choices out of that list.
eco's bones
Registered User
Very well stated and I think the problem he has between his ears gets accentuated when the playoffs come around. His play doesn't get better or stay the same--it gets worse.
Thinking about it he is def not a disaster and he has made significant improvements. But this is bascially it if he can't make significant OFFENSIVE and tactical decision making improvements he's really not needed and if a team is wilkling to give us a great trade player/pick/prospect combo we should take it. Staal is hurt all the time but if he wants to re-sign we should keep him b/c both injuries were freak unrelated things and there should not be any long term effects. Too hard to find guys that are of his caliber.
To be fair Del Zotto lost his luster because he legitamately played worse and worse and worse and to this day his offense is worse than it was his rookie year. His D improved tremendously though which is harder I think to see and appreciate especially because he was suppossed to be a better offensive mind than the rest of the D. So the reason DZ lost his luster is related more to his play than it is to the fact that he isn't new anymore. Stepan loist his luster from the end of last year to the beginning of this one but despite the fact that he is NOT new anymore he certainly more than gained it back because he started showing he was improving and reaching his potential all over the ice especially offensively and tacifullly which is what he was highly regarded for
Moore was definitely a nice surprise who played very well. The luster has less to do with how new he is and more to do with actual play. If we traded for him and he was like Bickle we'd have hated him.
eco's bones
Registered User
Moore's intelligence > Del Zotto's intelligence
Moore's skating > Del Zotto's skating
Moore's shot > Del Zotto's shot
Moore's composure > Del Zotto's composure
Del Zotto's price > Moore's price
Moore's skating > Del Zotto's skating
Moore's shot > Del Zotto's shot
Moore's composure > Del Zotto's composure
Del Zotto's price > Moore's price
Somehow John Moore is better than MDZ at every facet of the game, yet he's been getting fringe dman minutes in his NHL career.
Del Zotto's offense > Moore's offense
Del Zotto's defense > Moore's defense
My god you people can be so fickle.
LeetchisGod
This is a bad hockey team.
MDZ's offense regressed badly this year and his shaky defense doesn't make up for it. He was handling the puck like a hand grenade.
JESSEWENEEDTOCOOK
Twenty f*ckin years
- Oct 8, 2010
- 80,058
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I like a lot of what DZ brings when he's on his game. He, despite what some people will lead you to believe, is actually a very smart player. His problem is not a "lack of hockey sense". His problem is confidence (and skating ability). He lacks poise. Not overly concerning for a 23 year old defenseman, IMO, regardless of the fact that he's been in the league for three years. Most defenseman don't hit their prime until around 26/27. The fact that DZ has been a serviceable top-4 defenseman these past two years at age 22 and 23 means that he's already ahead of the curve, development wise. For all of the fuss over a player like Gardiner, he's from the same draft as DZ and hasn't managed to hold down a spot, even on a poor blueline like Toronto's.
The tools to be a very good offensive defenseman are there. He showed a lot of promise in the 11-12 season. I think a lot of players struggled this season, not just Del Zotto. McDonagh wasn't at his best until the playoffs, same goes for Girardi. I'd like to see what he can do under a new coach, in a full season.
That being said, I do believe that Sather/Gorton should be shopping him around the draft for a young, top-6 scorer. If they can't get that in return for DZ, then I'd be perfectly fine with keeping him and seeing if he can flourish with a team that (hopefully) has some stability headed into next season and a good, new coach.
The tools to be a very good offensive defenseman are there. He showed a lot of promise in the 11-12 season. I think a lot of players struggled this season, not just Del Zotto. McDonagh wasn't at his best until the playoffs, same goes for Girardi. I'd like to see what he can do under a new coach, in a full season.
That being said, I do believe that Sather/Gorton should be shopping him around the draft for a young, top-6 scorer. If they can't get that in return for DZ, then I'd be perfectly fine with keeping him and seeing if he can flourish with a team that (hopefully) has some stability headed into next season and a good, new coach.
How many teams are out there that made the playoffs the last two years icing a 21-22 year old defense men and won a couple of playoff rounds with said defenseman playing 23 mins a night?
How many of them avg. around .5PPG? How many teams are out there that have cost controlled defensemen that play top 4 mins & made the playoffs?
Rangers have DZ, and McD. How many players like that exist? Yeah his value is high... and that's why.
How many games has John Moore played 20+ mins a night in the NHL, and how many of those games did his team win?
Has he proved that he can handle a top 4 role on a winning team for two straight years?
Didn't work out in CLB... and when Moore played top 4 min in the playoffs.. did the Rangers win? I don't recall that happening.
Best part is... they are all blueshirts, and it would make reasonable sense to ice a 6 defensemen that can play top 4 minutes and expect it to be a winning formula.
Why are people lacking the sensibility to not to want to ice the best set of defense men in the league? Are the NYR poor like Nashville... or is it just the fans that think that way?
How many of them avg. around .5PPG? How many teams are out there that have cost controlled defensemen that play top 4 mins & made the playoffs?
Rangers have DZ, and McD. How many players like that exist? Yeah his value is high... and that's why.
How many games has John Moore played 20+ mins a night in the NHL, and how many of those games did his team win?
Has he proved that he can handle a top 4 role on a winning team for two straight years?
Didn't work out in CLB... and when Moore played top 4 min in the playoffs.. did the Rangers win? I don't recall that happening.
Best part is... they are all blueshirts, and it would make reasonable sense to ice a 6 defensemen that can play top 4 minutes and expect it to be a winning formula.
Why are people lacking the sensibility to not to want to ice the best set of defense men in the league? Are the NYR poor like Nashville... or is it just the fans that think that way?
JESSEWENEEDTOCOOK
Twenty f*ckin years
- Oct 8, 2010
- 80,058
- 17,678
Yeah, and he was still a) the highest scoring defenseman on the team and b) on pace for around 37/38 points, only 3/4 less than last season.
Yup. One big game and he's at the same pace. And he was a rock defensively playing 20+ minutes a night all season.
He had a bad playoffs, we get it. People here are simply incapable of evaluating a players body of work over a full season.
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