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[m9]

I think this is where you have to separate being a highly invested NHL fan which tends to come with a 'Cup or bust' mindset and running a business which relies a lot on revenue from a much more casual fan base.

In the Columbus case obviously to maximize value you trade Panarin and Bobovskry before they walk. However I strongly disagree with "this is what most teams would do", rather that's what most HFBoards fans would do. Teams very rarely sell when they're in a playoff position, and Columbus made a business decision that given the teams history and lack of success with what little window of opportunity they had they were going to go all in for that playoffs.

Personally I think too many people here inadvertently treat an option not taken like selling a soon to walk UFA at the deadline as an opportunity lost for ever, and rather I see things as working more on a sliding scale. Not selling today simply means you're drafting high 1 year later. I'd say really the only time an opportunity is really lost is if you had a chance to be in the running when a generational player like McDavid is up for grabs.

You think that "most teams" let their prized UFA group who haven't really shown any interest in re-signing walk to free agency? That "most teams" would go all-in to the point where arguably the top 3 UFA's on July 1st would all be from your own team? This is a normal thing that is only discussed on HFboards?

NHL free agency tracker 2019: Full list of signings, best available players

It was an extremely high-risk, all-in move for a team that was on the playoff bubble and even with the additions only finished 5th in their division and 8th in their conference. It should be added that part of their plan went beyond "not selling" - they made high-valued additions and gave up multiple premium picks and assets in various deals at the deadline.

But aside from all that, it was most definitely not what "most teams would do". It was possibly the riskiest and costliest push for one playoff run we've really seen in the NHL... or at least right up there.

 

[RandV]

You think that "most teams" let their prized UFA group who haven't really shown any interest in re-signing walk to free agency? That "most teams" would go all-in to the point where arguably the top 3 UFA's on July 1st would all be from your own team? This is a normal thing that is only discussed on HFboards?

The "most teams" part is about selling soon to be UFA's when they are a playoff team. It's a bit of a trickier topic because most of the time the big UFA's resign with their own team, especially if they're a playoff team. Just off the top of my head Alex Pietrangelo for example. Or even a more mid tier guy like Tomas Tatar with Montreal.

If you want to look at it from one perspective, look how much future assets playoff teams spend on rental players at the deadline, to acquire players that they will very shortly be 'losing for nothing'. Holding onto an expiring player and not getting assets is basically the same thing, this Columbus ordeal was just a bit rare because they got hit with a double whammy.

 

[F A N]

The "most teams" part is about selling soon to be UFA's when they are a playoff team. It's a bit of a trickier topic because most of the time the big UFA's resign with their own team, especially if they're a playoff team. Just off the top of my head Alex Pietrangelo for example. Or even a more mid tier guy like Tomas Tatar with Montreal.

If you want to look at it from one perspective, look how much future assets playoff teams spend on rental players at the deadline, to acquire players that they will very shortly be 'losing for nothing'. Holding onto an expiring player and not getting assets is basically the same thing, this Columbus ordeal was just a bit rare because they got hit with a double whammy.

I agree with the concept but I also agree with m9 with regards to the Columbus situation. It's one thing to keep a player you know you will not be re-signing or have little chance of re-signing and another to keep a player who clearly isn't happy. It was no secret that Bob wanted out. He didn't get along with Torts. The team even "suspended" him. There was clearly a rift between the team and the player yet the Blue Jackets, according to Bob, kept trying to extend him when he flat out told the team he won't be re-signing. At least Panarin left the door open to re-signing with the team.

 

[m9]

The "most teams" part is about selling soon to be UFA's when they are a playoff team. It's a bit of a trickier topic because most of the time the big UFA's resign with their own team, especially if they're a playoff team. Just off the top of my head Alex Pietrangelo for example. Or even a more mid tier guy like Tomas Tatar with Montreal.

If you want to look at it from one perspective, look how much future assets playoff teams spend on rental players at the deadline, to acquire players that they will very shortly be 'losing for nothing'. Holding onto an expiring player and not getting assets is basically the same thing, this Columbus ordeal was just a bit rare because they got hit with a double whammy.

All of the other recent superstar UFA signings (Tavares, Pietrangelo, Hamilton) involved teams who thought they would be able to re-sign their player and were in There were no indications Panarin was going to stay, which is why how they handled it was rare. It was even more clear Bobrovsky wasn't coming back.

Many teams would have handled it the off-season prior - sign an extension or trade the players. They chose a different way and it didn't work out.

 

[F A N]

Just looking at the Canucks front office there is a Vice President of People and the Director of Retail Sales also runs (or use to run) Aquilini's Blueberry farms.

 

[AwesomeInTheory]

Just looking at the Canucks front office there is a Vice President of People and the Director of Retail Sales also runs (or use to run) Aquilini's Blueberry farms.

Toronto had Burkie's Dog House.

Vancouver gets Frankie's Blueberry Jam?

 

[F A N]

Toronto had Burkie's Dog House.

Vancouver gets Frankie's Blueberry Jam?

Hot Dog followed by Blueberry Pie?

 

[rypper]

Which Vancouver Canucks should get an ‘A’ on their jerseys for 2021/22?

Article discussing with the roster turnover who wears a letter next season.

I think the team will be boring and Sutter keeps his 'A' and they give Edler's to OEL.

JT Miller is a little too mercurial. Is it too soon to give one to Pettersson?

Maybe they want a defenseman to wear a letter. Technically Hughes is the longest tenured defender. I think it's OEL first then Myers who would get it.

 

[supercanuck]

Which Vancouver Canucks should get an ‘A’ on their jerseys for 2021/22?

Article discussing with the roster turnover who wears a letter next season.

I think the team will be boring and Sutter keeps his 'A' and they give Edler's to OEL.

JT Miller is a little too mercurial. Is it too soon to give one to Pettersson?

Maybe they want a defenseman to wear a letter. Technically Hughes is the longest tenured defender. I think it's OEL first then Myers who would get it.

That's crazy! LOL! He of 2 "full" seasons in the NHL.

 

[rypper]

That's crazy! LOL! He of 2 "full" seasons in the NHL.

The 5 games he played at the tail end of the 18-19 season edge out Myers.

 

[F A N]

Which Vancouver Canucks should get an ‘A’ on their jerseys for 2021/22?

Article discussing with the roster turnover who wears a letter next season.

I think the team will be boring and Sutter keeps his 'A' and they give Edler's to OEL.

JT Miller is a little too mercurial. Is it too soon to give one to Pettersson?

Maybe they want a defenseman to wear a letter. Technically Hughes is the longest tenured defender. I think it's OEL first then Myers who would get it.

I would get a feel for the room? But I think you're right. Sutter keeps his "A" and Edler's go to OEL.

If Petey signs for 8 years you give him the A.

 

[supercanuck]

The 5 games he played at the tail end of the 18-19 season edge out Myers.

Sorry. I didn't mean you were crazy. I just meant the situation itself is crazy.

This is now 100% Benning's defense that he has been building for 8 years.

 

[theguardianII]

I have been posting all over the place about the wreck in the room.

While in Benning's head he thinks he did a good job in the off season, quantity does not mean quality.
For Benning it is use a shot gun to get a fly, meaning do lots of trades and signings and hope to get a good player and now, at any cost.
Benning does not see a future with him in it so he has no chips in that game so if doesn't exist for himself then using that money for now has no consequences.
The new roster players, just how much better are they?
Defence
Edler, a PK specialist, the most minutes in the league.
Who replaces him? OEL? So if you have OEL killing that many PK's so much for added offence or limited amount.
Myers - Hopefully the same
Hamonic - Ditto
Poolman - Bigger than Schmidt but 120 NHL games and not adding offensively maybe a slide back.
Schenn - Small upgrade to Benn
Hughes - Has to improve his defensive play or no change regardless of number of goals he scores because his career shows for each goal the other team scored 1.2 goals against, career minus player.
Juloevi - again, hopefully improvement, he should get more ice time but still has to learn how to turn right skating backwards
Rathbone - Stecher plus? But a rookie

One other thing to look at is playoff experience and the room.

Just on defence, a position they were pretty close to the worst in the league, not great improvement.

Forwards
Well to start of with a bunch of them have expressed less than enthusiasm.
Horvat, Miller and Pettersson have doubts
Horvat - same
Miller - same
Boeser - same unless he wants out, contract year.
Pettersson - should be better
Hoglander - improved
Podkolzin - maybe a surprise but really a complimentary player
Pearson - slower than last year but needed to play defence when Hughes is on the ice
Garland - small forward that plays big, injury risk, 45 pts is reachable
Dickinson - Not good on FO's, not as good a scorer as Virtanen, a step back from Beagle's FO's
Sutter - injuries, older but should be the same, no room for improvement
Dowling - Career AHLer. short term depth, small player
Highmore - Career AHLer, short term depth. small player
Di Giuseppe - Older marginal, career AHL but some time in the NHL
Motte - If okay after injury, powerful fore checker, little engine that could, injuries to watch for.

Over all the forwards are not that much improved, several chances being taken with players that have spent most of their career in the AHL and with less than two full season's worth of games.

While the team has the potential to create one very good scoring line it is rolling the dice on a second and the bottom six should be better but not a great deal better, remember these are players other teams have bailed on, they should be spirited and not need pushing but there are reasons some were let go or add ins.

The division is not considered very strong but then last year's division was not very strong either. Ottawa, with 23 players 25 and under caught and surpassed this group in only 35 games.
The team will depend too much upon Demko
The team is still very shallow in depth, especially scoring

The team on paper looks slightly better but not by much if at all and other teams in this division had bad years but were playing many more rookies and still have strong cores with a lot more experienced young, big players. They will not be as weak as last season.

ON PAPER the Canucks look to be fighting for a wild card spot. Everything has to be too perfect, no injuries, Demko plays like a Vezina winner and doesn't get tired, no Covid, the defence is ponderously weak in depth and forwards are one injury to Horvat, Miller, Pettersson or Boeser from not being relevant.

 

[F A N]

I have been posting all over the place about the wreck in the room.

While in Benning's head he thinks he did a good job in the off season, quantity does not mean quality.
For Benning it is use a shot gun to get a fly, meaning do lots of trades and signings and hope to get a good player and now, at any cost.
Benning does not see a future with him in it so he has no chips in that game so if doesn't exist for himself then using that money for now has no consequences.
The new roster players, just how much better are they?
Defence
Edler, a PK specialist, the most minutes in the league.
Who replaces him? OEL? So if you have OEL killing that many PK's so much for added offence or limited amount.
Myers - Hopefully the same
Hamonic - Ditto
Poolman - Bigger than Schmidt but 120 NHL games and not adding offensively maybe a slide back.
Schenn - Small upgrade to Benn
Hughes - Has to improve his defensive play or no change regardless of number of goals he scores because his career shows for each goal the other team scored 1.2 goals against, career minus player.
Juloevi - again, hopefully improvement, he should get more ice time but still has to learn how to turn right skating backwards
Rathbone - Stecher plus? But a rookie

One other thing to look at is playoff experience and the room.

Just on defence, a position they were pretty close to the worst in the league, not great improvement.

Forwards
Well to start of with a bunch of them have expressed less than enthusiasm.
Horvat, Miller and Pettersson have doubts
Horvat - same
Miller - same
Boeser - same unless he wants out, contract year.
Pettersson - should be better
Hoglander - improved
Podkolzin - maybe a surprise but really a complimentary player
Pearson - slower than last year but needed to play defence when Hughes is on the ice
Garland - small forward that plays big, injury risk, 45 pts is reachable
Dickinson - Not good on FO's, not as good a scorer as Virtanen, a step back from Beagle's FO's
Sutter - injuries, older but should be the same, no room for improvement
Dowling - Career AHLer. short term depth, small player
Highmore - Career AHLer, short term depth. small player
Di Giuseppe - Older marginal, career AHL but some time in the NHL
Motte - If okay after injury, powerful fore checker, little engine that could, injuries to watch for.

Over all the forwards are not that much improved, several chances being taken with players that have spent most of their career in the AHL and with less than two full season's worth of games.

While the team has the potential to create one very good scoring line it is rolling the dice on a second and the bottom six should be better but not a great deal better, remember these are players other teams have bailed on, they should be spirited and not need pushing but there are reasons some were let go or add ins.

The division is not considered very strong but then last year's division was not very strong either. Ottawa, with 23 players 25 and under caught and surpassed this group in only 35 games.
The team will depend too much upon Demko
The team is still very shallow in depth, especially scoring

The team on paper looks slightly better but not by much if at all and other teams in this division had years but were playing many more rookies and still have strong cores with a lot more experienced young, big players. They will not be as weak as last season.

ON PAPER the Canucks look to be fighting for a wild card spot. Everything has to be too perfect, no injuries, Demko plays like a Vezina winner and doesn't get tired, no Covid, the defence is ponderously weak in depth and forwards are one injury to Horvat, Miller, Pettersson or Boeser from not being relevant.

I think the main improvement is depth and the addition of Garland and (hopefully) Podkolzin and you're underrating their possible impact. Instead of picking up guys like Vesey and Boyd on waivers the team is starting off with guys like that in the system. A player like Michaelis shouldn't get 15 game opportunity to put up 0s. So I think they are improved up front. Saying Dickinson is not as good of a goal scorer as Virtanen and a step back from Beagle's FO ability underscores the fact that Virtanen scored 5 goals and had 0 assists last season and Beagle was a 35 year old player tasked with 80+% zone starts.

I mean what was the Canucks' 3rd line to start last season? Gaudette/Sutter, Roussel, and Virtanen? Gaudette and Virtanen on the 3rd line might have sounded good on paper but in reality it was not. You don't think Dickinson, Pearson/Hoglander, and Pods will be better?

I don't think the D is better with the loss of Schmidt. But there's some hope that OEL can be better than what Edler was last season and I'm excited to see Rathbone play a full season. There's once again more depth. No Chatfield for Green to keep playing might end up having a sizable impact.

 

[theguardianII]

I think the main improvement is depth and the addition of Garland and (hopefully) Podkolzin and you're underrating their possible impact. Instead of picking up guys like Vesey and Boyd on waivers the team is starting off with guys like that in the system. A player like Michaelis shouldn't get 15 game opportunity to put up 0s. So I think they are improved up front. Saying Dickinson is not as good of a goal scorer as Virtanen and a step back from Beagle's FO ability underscores the fact that Virtanen scored 5 goals and had 0 assists last season and Beagle was a 35 year old player tasked with 80+% zone starts.

I mean what was the Canucks' 3rd line to start last season? Gaudette/Sutter, Roussel, and Virtanen? Gaudette and Virtanen on the 3rd line might have sounded good on paper but in reality it was not. You don't think Dickinson, Pearson/Hoglander, and Pods will be better?

I don't think the D is better with the loss of Schmidt. But there's some hope that OEL can be better than what Edler was last season and I'm excited to see Rathbone play a full season. There's once again more depth. No Chatfield for Green to keep playing might end up having a sizable impact.

I think they signed Brisebois

I think there was too much that needed upgrading and most of these players are not in the top half of the league in skill. They do have a history, not like Ottawa's crew of so many under 25 that have more upward potential.

The biggest improvement, which is now maybe not so improved if Pearson is a 3rd liner, would have been the amount of money spent on the bottom six. While they didn't score much, they were not necessarily all that bad at defensive play. It was and IMO still the defence depth that is an issue, especially when Hughes is on the ice. I don't think OJ is very good but he is better defensively than Hughes

Schmidt and Miller were not happy to take a home town discount in a no tax state and then be dealt to high tax Canada. That was a huge chunk of change they lost and in Miller's case, as far from home as possible. I think Miller was promised an exit by Benning at A trade deadline but he reneged and Miller put a voice to his discontent. If a player doesn't want to be here, then he should be dealt. Of course that is the coup de grace for Benning.

Benning will have a heart attack and have to resign his position if this team bombs. It will take until near the end of November if they are playing close games but if they come out of the gate aren't winners.

 

[clay]

Which Vancouver Canucks should get an ‘A’ on their jerseys for 2021/22?

Article discussing with the roster turnover who wears a letter next season.

I think the team will be boring and Sutter keeps his 'A' and they give Edler's to OEL.

JT Miller is a little too mercurial. Is it too soon to give one to Pettersson?

Maybe they want a defenseman to wear a letter. Technically Hughes is the longest tenured defender. I think it's OEL first then Myers who would get it.

I don't believe in 4th liners having a letter on their jersey, but I expect Sutter to keep his A.

I find it insulting to EP that he won't have one - he's the franchise player.

 

[rypper]

Jalen Chatfield signed with the Carolina Hurricanes.

 

[The Vasili Jerry]

I think the main improvement is depth and the addition of Garland and (hopefully) Podkolzin and you're underrating their possible impact. Instead of picking up guys like Vesey and Boyd on waivers the team is starting off with guys like that in the system. A player like Michaelis shouldn't get 15 game opportunity to put up 0s. So I think they are improved up front. Saying Dickinson is not as good of a goal scorer as Virtanen and a step back from Beagle's FO ability underscores the fact that Virtanen scored 5 goals and had 0 assists last season and Beagle was a 35 year old player tasked with 80+% zone starts.

I mean what was the Canucks' 3rd line to start last season? Gaudette/Sutter, Roussel, and Virtanen? Gaudette and Virtanen on the 3rd line might have sounded good on paper but in reality it was not. You don't think Dickinson, Pearson/Hoglander, and Pods will be better?

I don't think the D is better with the loss of Schmidt. But there's some hope that OEL can be better than what Edler was last season and I'm excited to see Rathbone play a full season. There's once again more depth. No Chatfield for Green to keep playing might end up having a sizable impact.

You think there's depth on the blue line?

 

[Hit the post]

Sorry. I didn't mean you were crazy. I just meant the situation itself is crazy.

This is now 100% Benning's defense that he has been building for 8 years.

A blue line full of Jim Bennings (the NHLer) might be an improvement.

 

[Hit the post]

You think there's depth on the blue line?

There IS depth. Just on the 3rd pairing. Only team has had 4 top 4 D were leftover guys DimJim inherited

 

[F A N]

You think there's depth on the blue line?

Like I said, I don't think the D is better with the loss of Schmidt and I don't think we have better top 4 depth. I do think we have better overall depth but this isn't some strongly held conviction of mine. We had Edler, Schmidt, Hughes, Hamonic, Myers, Juolevi, Benn, and Chatfield. Taxi squad was Brisebois, Rafferty, and Rathbone. After that we have Woo, Sautner, Teves, Eliot. This year, our 7th and 8th Dmen will likely be Juolevi and Schenn. After that we have Hunt, Bowey, Keeper, Woo, Brisebois, and Burroughs.

Last year there really wasn't competition for the last D spots. Rathbone needed more seasoning and Brisebois, Rafferty, and Chatfield really weren't NHL Dmen. I think the new group is more capable of logging NHL minutes when called upon. None of those depth guys are Dmen I want to be regulars in the lineup, but I think Rathbone can be an upgrade over Juolevi (who I also hope to be better) and Benn. Woo is hopefully another step closer as well.

 

[Paulinbc]

Just looking at the Canucks front office there is a Vice President of People and the Director of Retail Sales also runs (or use to run) Aquilini's Blueberry farms.

f***ing hell. There is so much nepotism in this organization.

 

[Peen]

Jalen Chatfield signed with the Carolina Hurricanes.

He sucks

 

[theguardianII]

I don't believe in 4th liners having a letter on their jersey, but I expect Sutter to keep his A.

I find it insulting to EP that he won't have one - he's the franchise player.

After his comment on winning do you really want him in front of a microphone after every loss? Horvat looks sick sometimes having to try to say why they are losing without throwing a particular defenceman under the bus. How many times from all players have you heard they have to play better defence, not find a way to score more goals, learn how to play defence.

 

[AwesomeInTheory]

After his comment on winning do you really want him in front of a microphone after every loss?

Yes. He's someone whose words will be hard to ignore. Let our illustrious ~*~ talent whisperer ~*~ squirm.