The Management Thread | We live Page to Page here
- Thread starter Mr. Canucklehead
- Start date
-
Xenforo Cloud will be upgrading us to version 2.3.5 on March 3rd at 12 AM GMT. This version has increased stability and fixes several bugs. We expect downtime for the duration of the update. The admin team will continue to work on existing issues, templates and upgrade all necessary available addons to minimize impact of this new version. Click Here for Updates
- Status
VanillaCoke
Registered User
- Oct 30, 2013
- 27,305
- 14,343
Probably gets better answers asking the many players that seemingly don't want to play there.
mriswith
Registered User
- Oct 12, 2011
- 4,785
- 8,945
It's amazing watching the narrative on the panthers turn around.
People on the main boards were arguing that Zito hasn't been impressive because he came into a great situation with the table already set
I would bet anything that the Venn diagram of people arguing that and people who are very impressed with Bennings calder winning is a circle.
Jarmo's reputation is straight forward - like Chevy, he gets brownie points in the court of public opinion for playing in one of the least desirable franchises and doesn't get any blame for having key players exit the org for no or relatively little value. In fairness, both those guys had legitimate contenders until key guys walked for free and now they're unable to replace them. They should get credit for showing that they are capable of building contenders, which distinctly separates them from the Bennings and Hollands of the world, and they should get docked for not being able to pivot. I dock Jarmo points for not understanding that the rebuild began the day he knew Panarin was walking. CBJ fans were getting mad at me for telling them that last year although it seems they've finally accepted the rebuild now that Jones is gone.
People on the main boards were arguing that Zito hasn't been impressive because he came into a great situation with the table already set
I would bet anything that the Venn diagram of people arguing that and people who are very impressed with Bennings calder winning is a circle.
Jarmo's reputation is straight forward - like Chevy, he gets brownie points in the court of public opinion for playing in one of the least desirable franchises and doesn't get any blame for having key players exit the org for no or relatively little value. In fairness, both those guys had legitimate contenders until key guys walked for free and now they're unable to replace them. They should get credit for showing that they are capable of building contenders, which distinctly separates them from the Bennings and Hollands of the world, and they should get docked for not being able to pivot. I dock Jarmo points for not understanding that the rebuild began the day he knew Panarin was walking. CBJ fans were getting mad at me for telling them that last year although it seems they've finally accepted the rebuild now that Jones is gone.
Melvin
21/12/05
yea that definitely describes me very well. I didn’t just write a 5500 word post where I talked about every team in the nhl after doing a complete audit of each teams roster. Good call.
this completely idiotic post pretty much amplifies my point. I’m not really sure how Jarmo became such a sacred cow on this site.
Hit the post
I have your gold medal Zippy!
Mr. Canucklehead
Kitimat Canuck
AwesomeInTheory
A Christmas miracle
- Aug 21, 2015
- 4,715
- 5,212
I think there's some misplaced sympathy towards him and how he's hard done by because he couldn't retain Bobrovsky, Panarin, etc. and he's hard done by.
Snatcher Demko
High-End Intangibles
- Oct 8, 2006
- 6,090
- 1,563
Ha no sorry can't agree with this one. Milbury was god awful, even if he did luck out from Burke liking Potvin. While Hamrlink was a good signing, trading away Jokinen, Luongo, Redden, Chara etc puts him below Benning. Traded for Yashin (Chara and Spezza went the other way) and drafted Dipietro over Heatley/Gaborik. I'd rather have a GM who doesn't have a revolving door in the dressing room and isn't (IMO) an egotistical prick. He's a stain on the league.
m9
m9
- Jan 23, 2010
- 25,107
- 15,230
I don't think it's that at all. They could have easily traded those guys at the deadline or earlier and everyone would understand as that's what most teams would do. He chose not to.
I think it's simply their two playoff series wins (Tampa and Toronto) are both weighted too much because the teams they beat were high-profile and there were a ton of eyes on those two series.
AwesomeInTheory
A Christmas miracle
- Aug 21, 2015
- 4,715
- 5,212
There's that, as well.
I guess I should say I was more speculating. I just remember a lot of goodwill/sentiment on /r/hockey towards the Blue Jackets leading up that free agency period and that it was a shame he couldn't keep them.
But it could be people still riding the high from seeing Tampa get swept.
m9
m9
- Jan 23, 2010
- 25,107
- 15,230
Some people liked the aggressiveness they took in going for it that year at a time when most management groups would have cared more about a long-term plan. Some similarities to what happened here in 2019-20, actually.
He made two absolutely hideous moves : the Yashin trade and the Luongo trade/Dipietro draft. The fact that he stole Luongo from Toronto in the first place basically cancels out the second one.
The Hamrlik/Aucoin/Niinimaa/Jonsson trades were all absolute home runs.
I'm not saying he was good. But people ignore the fact that he made a bunch of excellent moves to solely focus on the two horrific moves.
Benning tried to make moves like this for Subban and Lucic, so I don't know that the fact that - amazingly - his terrible offers weren't accepted doesn't mean that he shouldn't be rated on having the same intent. Benning has never made a move remotely as good as the 4 defender trades I've referenced.
sting101
Registered User
- Feb 8, 2012
- 17,653
- 17,136
2 ???
DiPietro contract
DiPietro draft
Luongo Jokinen for Parrish Kvasha trade
Chara Spezza for Yashin trade
Yashin contract
Palffy Smolinski for 8th and Jokinen trade which wasn't that bad till he decided a yr later after Jokinen fell flat wheeling him with Luongo for a couple poor targets
McCabe Bertuzzi 3rd for Linden trade Trevor a year later for a bust pick
Berard ...............aw fuxx it. watch this video
I mean, obviously I'm including the Yashin contract in the Yashin trade. And the Dipietro contract really didn't end up hurting the team at all, strange as it was.
Berard was turned into Scatchard and #4 overall (Torres) which is a fine trade.
There was nothing wrong with the Palffy trade until they traded Jokinen in the aforementioned horrible Luongo-to-Florida deal.
Yes, the Linden deal was awful. Forgot that one somehow.
sting101
Registered User
- Feb 8, 2012
- 17,653
- 17,136
More than stats it was the completely idiotic flip flopping with strategy and direction and the horrendous locker room environment created by Yashin and the lack of stability or developing a quality core.
Wang didn't help the situation but Milbury was a crazed maniac who was incredibly destructive to anyone wanting to be a part of that team and franchise. The Martin Straka acquisition was pretty hilarious waived after 22 games. Development what's that?
The flip-flopping was directly from Wang. One year he wanted to spend on a contender, the next he wanted to slash costs. Milbury wasn't changing direction of his own volition.
Straka was a journeyman (at the time) who was a throw-in to the Berard-Redden deal, waived shortly thereafter, and then released by Florida a year later. Then had a career resurrection as Jagr's pet linemate.
AwesomeInTheory
A Christmas miracle
- Aug 21, 2015
- 4,715
- 5,212
Not trying to defend Milbury at all, but wasn't the DiPietro contract something that was concocted by Wang alongside Garth Snow?
sting101
Registered User
- Feb 8, 2012
- 17,653
- 17,136
Bertuzzi goes on for a while about Mike Milbury and some of the crazy things he was doing as GM.
One story that doesn’t make it into the clip I attached was how Milbury took pre-game meals away from the entire team during a ten-game losing streak because he thought they were eating too much.
Another story was how Milbury made the team call home after a loss to the St Louis Blue to tell their spouses they wouldn’t be home that night. The reason? Milbury had the team out on the ice after the game doing a two-hour bag skate.
One of the last stories Bertuzzi shared before talking about his trade request was how Milbury almost fought one of his own players (a “well respected and loved member of the team” according to Bertuzzi) after a loss to the Detroit Red Wings.
Again, this is wild stuff.
Actually yes, the contract was signed in September 2006 by Garth Snow. Milbury left the GM position in June 2016.
Not sure where you're getting that, I was making a broader statement and made no opinion on Jarmo other than 'he's probably not terrible' like everyone seems to be saying.
These things stand out to me because for a good 15 years or so I could put together an accurate league-wide team/player report off the top of my head, but my interest/attention has waned in recent years. A double whammy of Jim Benning and my favourite hockey league sim I've been playing since '99 going under a few years ago. But basically I just see lots of people get fixated on the big notable things to form their opinion without paying much mind to the underlying process.
I think this is where you have to separate being a highly invested NHL fan which tends to come with a 'Cup or bust' mindset and running a business which relies a lot on revenue from a much more casual fan base.
In the Columbus case obviously to maximize value you trade Panarin and Bobovskry before they walk. However I strongly disagree with "this is what most teams would do", rather that's what most HFBoards fans would do. Teams very rarely sell when they're in a playoff position, and Columbus made a business decision that given the teams history and lack of success with what little window of opportunity they had they were going to go all in for that playoffs.
Personally I think too many people here inadvertently treat an option not taken like selling a soon to walk UFA at the deadline as an opportunity lost for ever, and rather I see things as working more on a sliding scale. Not selling today simply means you're drafting high 1 year later. I'd say really the only time an opportunity is really lost is if you had a chance to be in the running when a generational player like McDavid is up for grabs.
Snatcher Demko
High-End Intangibles
- Oct 8, 2006
- 6,090
- 1,563
How many franchise calibre players has Benning traded away? None so far. Milbury has 3 at least.
But the biggest reason why Milbury was the worst was his ridiculous impatience and general assholery.
Also IMHO, it's not fair to judge Benning on moves he *didn't* ultimately make. There's probably dozen "almost" deals every year and we don't have all the facts of why they didn't happen. Far too much room for assumptions there for any strong opinion.
But the biggest reason why Milbury was the worst was his ridiculous impatience and general assholery.
Also IMHO, it's not fair to judge Benning on moves he *didn't* ultimately make. There's probably dozen "almost" deals every year and we don't have all the facts of why they didn't happen. Far too much room for assumptions there for any strong opinion.
Melvin
21/12/05
sting101
Registered User
- Feb 8, 2012
- 17,653
- 17,136
*Traded 20yr old 523 nhl point JP Dumont for a bust pick from Chicago
*Trades 22 yr olds McCabe and Bertuzzi for 1 yr of Trevor Linden and then Trades Linden for the 10th pick (Mezei) which would seem to be a decent move except for the fact the 99 draft is one of the weakest of all time and Milbury/Wang are not gonna be patient and develop anyone that doesn't help the big club in rapid fashion and laughably have also dealt their best player and all star 27 yr old Ziggy Palffy for the 8th pick (Taylor Pyatt) in the same shit draft and acquired a bunch more picks also.
* Trades 21 yr old Bryan Berard who he acquired by trading the 1st OA 1000 game Wade Redden which was ok given the players desires for a 27yr old goalie who's game had gone south in TO and had just drafted 20yr old Roberto Luongo 4OA and would probably be ready in a couple years or sooner. Shockingly Roberto outplays him the next year and he's dealt to the Canucks for the great Muckalt Scatchard Weekes combo and oh yes they threw in 2nd and 3rd round picks.
* Well enough of this rebuilding thing? Out of the playoffs for 6yrs they decide to punt 21yr old 4thOA Luongo 21yr old 5OA Eric Brewer and the former 3OA 21 yr old Olli Jokinen for Kvasha Parrish and Hamrlik?? 21yr old Hall of fame goalie, 2C and top3 defenseman stud for a top pair D in Hamrlik a RW2 and a 3rd liner. No big deal right we have Chara and DiPietro in the system now? I mean with Parrish scoring 15-20 who needs Dany Heatley or Marian Gaborik right
* Oh and guess what the Sens are trying to get rid of this giant headache of a lazy talented but extremely polarizing Russian who prefers galas and art museums over hanging with teammates and oh yes practice and being a good leader and teammate. Lets trade another Hall of Famer in Zdeno Chara and the pick that is gonna be Jason Spezza (maybe HOFer) for this guy at the draft that should get the fans going and catapult the team forward lol. I'm sure his new teammates will love the jersey # that represents his contract figures. Oh hey Mike Peca get ready your the real captain by the way. Chemistry should be great good luck with that.
* oh and in case we missed it we got sick of waiting for 5OA Connolly and 8OA Pyatt who are 19 and 20 and traded them for Mike Peca.
*Laviolette and Osgood pivotal additions helped the team get back in the playoffs yeahhh baby. Osgood traded away the next season
* oh well 2003 should bring a nice piece at 15OA in the greatest draft ever Getzlaf Perry Bergeron Richards Carter Burns here we come.....The NYI are proud to select Robert Nilsson.
What an era
*Trades 22 yr olds McCabe and Bertuzzi for 1 yr of Trevor Linden and then Trades Linden for the 10th pick (Mezei) which would seem to be a decent move except for the fact the 99 draft is one of the weakest of all time and Milbury/Wang are not gonna be patient and develop anyone that doesn't help the big club in rapid fashion and laughably have also dealt their best player and all star 27 yr old Ziggy Palffy for the 8th pick (Taylor Pyatt) in the same shit draft and acquired a bunch more picks also.
* Trades 21 yr old Bryan Berard who he acquired by trading the 1st OA 1000 game Wade Redden which was ok given the players desires for a 27yr old goalie who's game had gone south in TO and had just drafted 20yr old Roberto Luongo 4OA and would probably be ready in a couple years or sooner. Shockingly Roberto outplays him the next year and he's dealt to the Canucks for the great Muckalt Scatchard Weekes combo and oh yes they threw in 2nd and 3rd round picks.
* Well enough of this rebuilding thing? Out of the playoffs for 6yrs they decide to punt 21yr old 4thOA Luongo 21yr old 5OA Eric Brewer and the former 3OA 21 yr old Olli Jokinen for Kvasha Parrish and Hamrlik?? 21yr old Hall of fame goalie, 2C and top3 defenseman stud for a top pair D in Hamrlik a RW2 and a 3rd liner. No big deal right we have Chara and DiPietro in the system now? I mean with Parrish scoring 15-20 who needs Dany Heatley or Marian Gaborik right
* Oh and guess what the Sens are trying to get rid of this giant headache of a lazy talented but extremely polarizing Russian who prefers galas and art museums over hanging with teammates and oh yes practice and being a good leader and teammate. Lets trade another Hall of Famer in Zdeno Chara and the pick that is gonna be Jason Spezza (maybe HOFer) for this guy at the draft that should get the fans going and catapult the team forward lol. I'm sure his new teammates will love the jersey # that represents his contract figures. Oh hey Mike Peca get ready your the real captain by the way. Chemistry should be great good luck with that.
* oh and in case we missed it we got sick of waiting for 5OA Connolly and 8OA Pyatt who are 19 and 20 and traded them for Mike Peca.
*Laviolette and Osgood pivotal additions helped the team get back in the playoffs yeahhh baby. Osgood traded away the next season
* oh well 2003 should bring a nice piece at 15OA in the greatest draft ever Getzlaf Perry Bergeron Richards Carter Burns here we come.....The NYI are proud to select Robert Nilsson.
What an era
Last edited:
- Status
