The Jarmo Thread

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BB88

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Let the record show, I think Jarmo is pushing all the chips in much too early.

We will see how it plays out over the next few years.

How do you push all the chips in if he’s kept all his prospects and the 3rd overall pick?

What they are trying to do is avoid Buffalo/Edmonton like development situation for kids and anyone who watches hockey should support that approach
 

CBJWerenski8

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Let the record show, I think Jarmo is pushing all the chips in much too early.

We will see how it plays out over the next few years.
Since we’re putting things on the record, I somewhat agree with you

I think it’s bold. I do think he’s feeling the heat. I don’t think the roster was as bad as it played last year, and I do think the new additions (including Babcock) will really help this team.

Is it enough to make the playoffs? I still doubt it. The East is such a bear and our goaltending and centers are still an issue. But we’re just starting summer, we’ll see what happens.
 
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Cowumbus

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How do you push all the chips in if he’s kept all his prospects and the 3rd overall pick?

What they are trying to do is avoid Buffalo/Edmonton like development situation for kids and anyone who watches hockey should support that approach
Too much cap being spent, and talk of bringing in Hayes. How is trading a 1st round pick in a deep draft, signing one of the top UFA’s and being linked to trading for a center not pushing chips in?

Johnson and Jiricek look good, but we don’t even know we have in them (see Sillinger). Shit, we don’t even know what we have in Boqvist. If Carlsson and Johnson aren’t top6 centers, what are we going to accomplish, what is our ceiling?

What is our plan long term? Because now I don’t even know.

People are talking about trading the 2024 1st or Sillinger….
 
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Cowumbus

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in this analogy, jarmo's been stockpiling a huge chip stack and is basically calling the big blind. a late first, choose-your-own-adventure second and extra third rounder are not valuable chips.
It’s more than picks, it’s cap space and even less ability to know what we have in Boqvist (who we need to work out).

We will see who 22Oa ends up being too.
 

cbjthrowaway

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Too much cap being spent, and talk of bringing in Hayes. How is trading a 1st round pick in a deep draft, signing one of the top UFA’s and being linked to trading for a center not pushing chips in?

Johnson and Jiricek look good, but we don’t even know we have in them (see Sillinger). Shit, we don’t even know what we have in Boqvist. If Carlsson and Johnson aren’t top6 centers, what are we going to accomplish, what is our ceiling?

What is our plan long term? Because now I don’t even know.

People are talking about trading the 2024 1st or Sillinger….

that tweet echoes what the athletic's stat dorks said about this trade (and the gaudreau signing last year) – complaining that the individual moves that we're making don't immediately turn us into a contender.

it's a flawed premise. the jackets are going to make more moves. they have young players in place who will get better. they won't be held back by inexperienced coaching anymore.

none of the moves being made should be viewed as a silver bullet to suddenly turn the team into a contender. the collective moves being made make the team more competitive in the short term, and deeper/more experienced when the young kids are ready to make big contributions (i.e. when they are a contender)

it's like making the moves a contender would make in advance so you're not mortgaging the future when that time does come around.
 

Cowumbus

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that tweet echoes what the athletic's stat dorks said about this trade (and the gaudreau signing last year) – complaining that the individual moves that we're making don't immediately turn us into a contender.

it's a flawed premise. the jackets are going to make more moves. they have young players in place who will get better. they won't be held back by inexperienced coaching anymore.

none of the moves being made should be viewed as a silver bullet to suddenly turn the team into a contender. the collective moves being made make the team more competitive in the short term, and deeper/more experienced when the young kids are ready to make big contributions (i.e. when they are a contender)

it's like making the moves a contender would make in advance so you're not mortgaging the future when that time does come around.
You are more optimistic than me, I’m not convinced.
 

Viqsi

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Johnson and Jiricek look good, but we don’t even know we have in them (see Sillinger). Shit, we don’t even know what we have in Boqvist. If Carlsson and Johnson aren’t top6 centers, what are we going to accomplish, what is our ceiling?
We're kind of at the point of diminishing returns w/r/t bringing in youth, I think, so we're going to have to gamble on them reaching those heights. I think it's a relatively safe gamble, but it is a gamble.

What is our plan long term? Because now I don’t even know.
It's betting on those guys we have and/or are getting in this coming draft by giving them time and space to develop into the stars we hope they'll be. Mediocre fumbling towards the wild card next year, playoff team year after, and if the kids reach their celiings (which we're giving them every opportunity to do), real contender status a year or two after that.

People are talking about trading the 2024 1st or Sillinger….
Yeah, I'm also not thinking that's a good approach unless we get an offer that blows us out of the water. And on that I'm not exactly holding my breath.

That said, I think there's so far been all of two posts by one guy suggesting it, so I don't quite think that's the popular trend.
 

Double-Shift Lasse

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Too much cap being spent, and talk of bringing in Hayes. How is trading a 1st round pick in a deep draft, signing one of the top UFA’s and being linked to trading for a center not pushing chips in?

Johnson and Jiricek look good, but we don’t even know we have in them (see Sillinger). Shit, we don’t even know what we have in Boqvist. If Carlsson and Johnson aren’t top6 centers, what are we going to accomplish, what is our ceiling?

What is our plan long term? Because now I don’t even know.

People are talking about trading the 2024 1st or Sillinger….

The players being acquired should allow Johnson/Jiricek/Carlsson to move them closer to being a contender.
 

cbjthrowaway

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You are more optimistic than me, I’m not convinced.
understandable.

i'm just sick of seeing people complain about individual moves (or proposed moves) on the grounds of it not being enough to make the team a competitor. there's not a single move that can do that for any team – it is, by definition, a culmination of moves.

so far, it's:
- getting werenski back
- getting provorov + putting him in a more suitable role
- getting severson to help out werenski
- giving one of jiricek/boqvist a real d-partner in provorov
- going from larsen to babcock
- in-house bottom six upgrades (voronkov/texier)
- getting a future 1C with the 3rd overall pick (2024 ETA)
- experience/an offseason of growth for the young guys
- the expectation of better injury luck next year

they've transformed the top four without actually giving any players up or putting themselves in a cap crunch. they still have a ton of surplus assets – especially young right-handed defenseman now, which they can use to address the center position.

it's a bit harder to see it right now, but assuming they're not done making moves, whatever they do next will make them immensely better in 23-24.

then, in 24-25, without any other moves being made:
- 2023 3OA will be ready
- mateychuk will likely be NHL ready
- same with svozil (who i expect to be an NHL regular by the end of this season)
- another year of growth for young guys

instead of putting that all on those young guys, though, they'll be on a better team with way more solid veterans around the lineup.

you said you don't know what the long-term plan is – this is it. it's pretty clear. they don't have all of the pieces in place yet, but they're adding some of those pieces now, and have the means to add the rest later.
 

CBJWerenski8

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Too much cap being spent, and talk of bringing in Hayes. How is trading a 1st round pick in a deep draft, signing one of the top UFA’s and being linked to trading for a center not pushing chips in?

Johnson and Jiricek look good, but we don’t even know we have in them (see Sillinger). Shit, we don’t even know what we have in Boqvist. If Carlsson and Johnson aren’t top6 centers, what are we going to accomplish, what is our ceiling?

What is our plan long term? Because now I don’t even know.

People are talking about trading the 2024 1st or Sillinger….

“Enormous amount of money” in that tweet makes me laugh

The jackets are going to have a boatload of cap space in 2 years as is much of the league. The money their spending is just fine

Also they still have all of their own draft picks. The horror
 

Monk

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“Enormous amount of money” in that tweet makes me laugh

The jackets are going to have a boatload of cap space in 2 years as is much of the league. The money their spending is just fine

Also they still have all of their own draft picks. The horror

This is the part befuddling me. This seems like a normal amount of money for a top 4 D, though I don't honestly pay a ton of attention to the $ side of the sport. If he's not a top 4 D, I guess that's worrisome? But that's not the impression I've gotten so far.
 

BluejacketNut

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These moves are purely “my hour glass has been flipped for the final time“. JKs days are numbered, we had to get rid of Ollie because we were a cap team and look what that spending got us. I have to think he’s on a pretty short list with ownership for all this spending and 1 playoff series win to show for it.
 

BB88

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Too much cap being spent, and talk of bringing in Hayes. How is trading a 1st round pick in a deep draft, signing one of the top UFA’s and being linked to trading for a center not pushing chips in?

Johnson and Jiricek look good, but we don’t even know we have in them (see Sillinger). Shit, we don’t even know what we have in Boqvist. If Carlsson and Johnson aren’t top6 centers, what are we going to accomplish, what is our ceiling?

What is our plan long term? Because now I don’t even know.

People are talking about trading the 2024 1st or Sillinger….


Because that pick wasn’t their and it’s a low 1st.

They’ve kept all their prospects, all their own picks and added 2 under 30 top4 Dmen.

& they’ve spent cap but they haven’t tied themselves into cap hell.

You have Provorov, Gubranson, Jenner, Roslovic, Peeke, Boqvist on contracts running off the books in the next 12-36 months.

Their cap is in a really good spot moving forward and they have kept all their own assets, all of them so far

In a world where superstars are going to be signing in 12-14M range the biggest earner for Columbus is making 9.75M with ton of cap coming off the books in the near future and they can replace them with their own elc players
 

cbjthrowaway

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Because that pick wasn’t their and it’s a low 1st.

They’ve kept all their prospects, all their own picks and added 2 under 30 top4 Dmen.

& they’ve spent cap but they haven’t tied themselves into cap hell.

You have Provorov, Gubranson, Jenner, Roslovic, Peeke, Boqvist on contracts running off the books in the next 12-36 months.

Their cap is in a really good spot moving forward and they have kept all their own assets, all of them so far

In a world where superstars are going to be signing in 12-14M range the biggest earner for Columbus is making 9.75M with ton of cap coming off the books in the near future and they can replace them with their own elc players
not to mention:
  1. three ELC years for jiricek
  2. three ELC years for mateychuk
  3. one slide year + three ELC years for whoever they take at 3OA (assuming it's smith/carlsson and they don't come over until 2024)
  4. kent johnson having 10.2(c) RFA status (will keep his AAV down)
all things considered, their cap management has been quite good
 

DarkandStormy

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Too much cap being spent, and talk of bringing in Hayes. How is trading a 1st round pick in a deep draft, signing one of the top UFA’s and being linked to trading for a center not pushing chips in?

Johnson and Jiricek look good, but we don’t even know we have in them (see Sillinger). Shit, we don’t even know what we have in Boqvist. If Carlsson and Johnson aren’t top6 centers, what are we going to accomplish, what is our ceiling?

What is our plan long term? Because now I don’t even know.

People are talking about trading the 2024 1st or Sillinger….


In the tweet he says "spending picks + prospects."

The last "prospect" they traded was Veini Vehvilainen in March 2021.

They've *ONLY* traded picks this off-season. What a dumb writer who doesn't understand words.

You can argue, if you want, that those picks would be more useful to this club at the time of the "window" opening or whatever. But you can't say they're trading picks + prospects.
 

BB88

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In the tweet he says "spending picks + prospects."

The last "prospect" they traded was Veini Vehvilainen in March 2021.

They've *ONLY* traded picks this off-season. What a dumb writer who doesn't understand words.

You can argue, if you want, that those picks would be more useful to this club at the time of the "window" opening or whatever. But you can't say they're trading picks + prospects.

These people are basically wanting a full fire sale rebuild that take 10 years and when it would happen they’d laugh at Columbus for them being a forever basement level team.

Just make comments about things you have no idea about
 

JacketsDavid

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I think the tough thing is:
1. The coaching change will be a large impact (should make us better) but let's be honest I wouldn't expect us to come out firing. I would also expect to see some guys on current roster who don't fit in Babcocks system.
2. Our quality blue line depth sucked. Outside of Zach we had too many guys (after Gavy traded) that looked like they were somewhere between 2nd-3rd pairing guys. Jarmo addressed that.
3. Usually team start to get better then add pieces. To me it seems like just adding the best pieces (individual) available and hope they stick.

Just in general the sum of our pieces (talent) don't usually add up in Columbus. We added Johnny G last year and despite him putting up good stats the team is drafting 3OA. I do think coaching will help that, but I think it will be a challenge at first to get guys to play to his standards.
 

koteka

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in this analogy, jarmo's been stockpiling a huge chip stack and is basically calling the big blind. a late first, choose-your-own-adventure second and extra third rounder are not valuable chips.

Cap space in 5 years is a pretty big chip if our young guys progress and earn big paychecks.

Plus I think the regional sports network thing is a bigger deal for future cap growth than people are talking about.
 

cbjthrowaway

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Cap space in 5 years is a pretty big chip if our young guys progress and earn big paychecks.

Plus I think the regional sports network thing is a bigger deal for future cap growth than people are talking about.
they have exactly two (2) contracts on the books five years from now:
1. johnny gaudreau
2. damon severson

it is in no way unworkable with the guys they have/will be adding to the system.
 
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Iron Balls McGinty

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they have exactly two (2) contracts on the books five years from now:
1. johnny gaudreau
2. damon severson

it is in no way unworkable with the guys they have/will be adding to the system.
Additionally, 5 years from now the cap could be up 10 million by then as well.

When it comes down to it, we had the 2nd worst record in the league last year. As a whole, we have some players with potential that hasn't been realized yet (or ever?) and a bunch of players who just aren't very good that some of us hoped would be good. Status Quo can't be acceptable any year. We do need to reach a point where we stopped being so concerned about 5 years from now and fidn out what we can be in 2-3 years.

I personally think Jarmo is almost always concerned with 5 years down the road that enough attention doesn't get paid to the shorter term. We've always constantly been one of the youngest teams in the league and a lot changes over 5 years. let's put some attention on the shorter term with an eye on the longer term and see what finally happens. We obviously can see teams make big turn arounds in a short period now with the right moves. I may not always like the hire or the player but at least we are doing something and being aggressive to see what we can do.
 

GoJackets1

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“Improve the team!” shout the fans! Jarmo:

1. Hires a coach largely at one time fairly recently considered to be one of the best coaches in NHL history. (Yes, maybe who also happens to be an asshole)
2. Trades for a good all-around LD, filling one of the biggest holes in the lineup.
3. Signs a good all-around RD, filling another one of the biggest holes in the lineup.

“No, not like that!!” shout the fans. This is where I roll my eyes.

Tanking for years on end is not the only way to improve a team. In fact, it’s probably pretty damn harmful to developing players.

We were pretty bad for 3 years and came out the other side with Johnson, Jiricek, Sillinger, Mateychuk, Dumais, Ceuelemans, Svozil and one of Carlsson/Fantilli from the draft, and Gaudreau and Severson from FA.

We don’t need to continue to be as bad as we were this past year in order to improve long term. Severson is, and Provorov can be, part of the long term here. These are not desperation “Jarmo is trying to win now to save his job” moves.
 

majormajor

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Too much cap being spent, and talk of bringing in Hayes. How is trading a 1st round pick in a deep draft, signing one of the top UFA’s and being linked to trading for a center not pushing chips in?

Johnson and Jiricek look good, but we don’t even know we have in them (see Sillinger). Shit, we don’t even know what we have in Boqvist. If Carlsson and Johnson aren’t top6 centers, what are we going to accomplish, what is our ceiling?

What is our plan long term? Because now I don’t even know.

People are talking about trading the 2024 1st or Sillinger….


I think the Severson trade is a case where they're trading some of their potential 6-8 years out (when Jiricek/KJ/Carlsson? will be in their primes). They'll be slightly less capable of surrounding them with elite players in what might be the cup window because they have so much cap committed to a mid-30s D-man.

But you acquired the late 1st in the first place by trading one of your two remaining top 4D, because you couldn't sign him. Parlaying that back into a top 4D is reasonable and keeps it even. Keeping the pick at the expense of the roster would actually be a step more towards a nuclear rebuild, which I think would be a too risky strategy long term in addition to entailing more pain in the next few years.
 

BB88

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Cap space in 5 years is a pretty big chip if our young guys progress and earn big paychecks.

Plus I think the regional sports network thing is a bigger deal for future cap growth than people are talking about.

You can’t be thinking about potential cap problems 5 year down the line in the NHL too heavily.
Millions things are going to happen between that and today.
 

koteka

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You can’t be thinking about potential cap problems 5 year down the line in the NHL too heavily.
Millions things are going to happen between that and today.

I think a young team with a bunch of good draft picks needs to be thinking of how people are going to slot in. Next year we have KJ’s contract. Do we go the Jack Hughes/Leon Draisaitl route and try to lock him up for 8 years? Do we risk bridging him and then he plays himself into a better contract? When you have high draft picks, there are different issues than when you are managing a playoff caliber team. You better be thinking about the cap 5 years from now if you are the GM.

Toronto gave too much money to their core and it has hurt their team. Edmonton, however, did a great job on contracts with the core and then wasted cap space on bad contracts for ancillary players. I hope we are not going to follow the Edmonton path.
 
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