The Jarmo Thread

[Viqsi]

I’m not saying there’s evidence. I’m saying Jarmo is the boss of the HC. He *can* tell the HC what to do, if he pleases.

This is fairly common in other sports, as well. As front offices improve their analytics, they get more involved. MLB FO’s give the managers lineup cards. NFL FO’s give coaching staffs weekly notes. How forceful they are, really just depends on the org.

I doubt we’d be too privy to specific examples of Jarmo forcing a HC’s hand re: lines and positions. But it’s probably happened at least once over the years.

So the answer to the question is "no", because this is all conjecture.

 

[Cowumbus]

What does the team need to do this year to get Jarmo off of the hot seat?

If they finish bottom 5 is he fired? Bottom 10?

 

[stevo61]

What does the team need to do this year to get Jarmo off of the hot seat?

If they finish bottom 5 is he fired? Bottom 10?

I dont know that it will be tied to standings and I dont think 1 year gets him off the hot seat completely. I think we'll have to see 2 years of legitimate improvement for him to earn himself another deal. Also potentially another reason the Babcock deal is only 2 years, if he doesnt get a contract the new guy can choose his own guy

 

[Cowumbus]

I dont know that it will be tied to standings and I dont think 1 year gets him off the hot seat completely. I think we'll have to see 2 years of legitimate improvement for him to earn himself another deal. Also potentially another reason the Babcock deal is only 2 years, if he doesnt get a contract the new guy can choose his own guy

Do you think if they finish bottom 5 he’s still here?

 

[5th Line Fanatic]

Do you think if they finish bottom 5 he’s still here?

No

 

[stevo61]

Do you think if they finish bottom 5 he’s still here?

Depends on how it looks I guess. If they are atleast competing then maybe? Could shorten his leash though and really take control of the moves hes allowed to make. After this much time Im guessing theyll have him finish out his deal. If its a repeat of this year and we are a legit threat to a top pick again then no probably not. Goalie is the only thing that makes me believe bottom 5 is even possible but I still find it highly unlikely

 

[Cowumbus]

Depends on how it looks I guess. If they are atleast competing then maybe? Could shorten his leash though and really take control of the moves hes allowed to make. After this much time Im guessing theyll have him finish out his deal. If its a repeat of this year and we are a legit threat to a top pick again then no probably not. Goalie is the only thing that makes me believe bottom 5 is even possible but I still find it highly unlikely

Fair enough.

Only asking because it seems like the mains are split between us being a bottom 5 club, or a bubble team. Not much in between.

 

[Youngguns1380]

What does the team need to do this year to get Jarmo off of the hot seat?

If they finish bottom 5 is he fired? Bottom 10?

Who knows other than the owner, JD & Jarmo. The owner has expectations and was embarrassed by the showing of the team in Finland and a network game against Buffalo (assumed).

Not only is it for our entertainment but it’s a business and needs to meet financial projections. You have to sell fans hope so a shot in the dark would be close to playoff spot but look competitive and drastically different than last season.

They probably have some metrics for measure like finish in the standings, major decrease in GA, increase in GF, single game ticket sales, season ticket renewals and fan sentiment analysis.

These are just guesses.

 

[stevo61]

Fair enough.

Only asking because it seems like the mains are split between us being a bottom 5 club, or a bubble team. Not much in between.

With Korpi in net they played at a pace out of the bottom 5. I obviously dont anticipate Korpi level goaltending this year but with the improvements to every other position plus coaching I just cant realistically see it. I think atleast expecting what we saw 2 years ago is a fair guess

 

[Byrral]

The CBJ must show improvement on the ice this season and they must make the playoffs by next season or Jarmo needs to be fired.

 

[tunnelvision]

What does the team need to do this year to get Jarmo off of the hot seat?

If they finish bottom 5 is he fired? Bottom 10?

Pretty safe to assume it will depend on numerous factors (point total, injuries, TDL, which players are carrying the team, what kind of impact Babcock has, ticket sales etc.) but I think bottom-5 finish would be inexcusable in any scenario from ownership's perspective. I can imagine Jarmo and JD surviving while being 6th-10th worst in the league but it's probably unlikely they would. 9th-12th in East and it's likely they will continue. Playoff spot would secure their jobs for at least another year.

I started thinking of different scenarios where Jackets would finish somewhere in the standings that would be tough to swallow for ownership but which wouldn't lead them to fire people necessarily -- suppose that would be around 12th in the East (80-85 points):

Scenario #1

- 25+ year old veterans play well or as expected, and for the most part are carrying the team (JG, Laine, Jenner, Kuraly, Merzlikins, Werenski, Severson, Provorov...)
- U25 players play as expected or worse. A lot of them spend time lower in the lineup, in the press box or in Cleveland (KJ, Fantilli, Marchenko, Voronkov, Texier, Chinakhov, Jiricek, Boqvist, Tarasov...)
- league average in man-games lost, goal differential and special teams

Scenario #2 (same amount of points as #1)

- 25+ year old veterans play as expected or worse, and are not carrying the team for the most part (JG, Laine, Jenner, Kuraly, Merzlikins, Werenski, Severson, Provorov...)
- U25 players play as expected or show significant development. A lot of them start to play higher in the lineup than some veterans and are at least temporarily carrying the team (KJ, Fantilli, Marchenko, Voronkov, Texier, Chinakhov, Jiricek, Boqvist, Tarasov...)
- league average in man-games lost, goal differential and special teams


In theory, which of these scenarios would be more "forgivable" for Jarmo and JD?

 

[JacketsDavid]

What does the team need to do this year to get Jarmo off of the hot seat?

If they finish bottom 5 is he fired? Bottom 10?

Team has to show improvement especially in back half of the year.

I don't think anyone ill be surprised if the team starts slowly (new coach, new systems and likely several new players). I still think there is a high probability that some guys won't work under Babs so that may take some additional roster moves and configurations.

But IMO the team needs to play like a playoff team for the last 40 or so games.

 

[majormajor]

Pretty safe to assume it will depend on numerous factors (point total, injuries, TDL, which players are carrying the team, what kind of impact Babcock has, ticket sales etc.) but I think bottom-5 finish would be inexcusable in any scenario from ownership's perspective. I can imagine Jarmo and JD surviving while being 6th-10th worst in the league but it's probably unlikely they would. 9th-12th in East and it's likely they will continue. Playoff spot would secure their jobs for at least another year.

I started thinking of different scenarios where Jackets would finish somewhere in the standings that would be tough to swallow for ownership but which wouldn't lead them to fire people necessarily -- suppose that would be around 12th in the East (80-85 points):

Scenario #1

- 25+ year old veterans play well or as expected, and for the most part are carrying the team (JG, Laine, Jenner, Kuraly, Merzlikins, Werenski, Severson, Provorov...)
- U25 players play as expected or worse. A lot of them spend time lower in the lineup, in the press box or in Cleveland (KJ, Fantilli, Marchenko, Voronkov, Texier, Chinakhov, Jiricek, Boqvist, Tarasov...)
- league average in man-games lost, goal differential and special teams

Scenario #2 (same amount of points as #1)

- 25+ year old veterans play as expected or worse, and are not carrying the team for the most part (JG, Laine, Jenner, Kuraly, Merzlikins, Werenski, Severson, Provorov...)
- U25 players play as expected or show significant development. A lot of them start to play higher in the lineup than some veterans and are at least temporarily carrying the team (KJ, Fantilli, Marchenko, Voronkov, Texier, Chinakhov, Jiricek, Boqvist, Tarasov...)
- league average in man-games lost, goal differential and special teams


In theory, which of these scenarios would be more "forgivable" for Jarmo and JD?

I think if they show a lot of improvement but just get swamped by injuries and hit 80 pts then they'll get a pass.

If they hit 80 pts because the D is still bad (particularly Severson and Provorov) and Elvis and Tarasov are still terrible then that's clearly on Jarmo.

I really can't understand how they've invested so much into the team next year yet brought back two bad goalies and didn't bring in a third goalie.

I'm not as sure as others that Jarmo and JD are going down together, by the way. From what we know there's a chance that if Jarmo gets canned that it will be just him.

 

[tunnelvision]

I think if they show a lot of improvement but just get swamped by injuries and hit 80 pts then they'll get a pass.

If they hit 80 pts because the D is still bad (particularly Severson and Provorov) and Elvis and Tarasov are still terrible then that's clearly on Jarmo.

I really can't understand how they've invested so much into the team next year yet brought back two bad goalies and didn't bring in a third goalie.

And if they get 80 points with average D and goaltending and normal amount of injuries should they get fired as well?

I'm not as sure as others that Jarmo and JD are going down together, by the way. From what we know there's a chance that if Jarmo gets canned that it will be just him.

It's possible it would be just Jarmo (although it could leave a very awkward situation), my point is that at least one of them would go.

 

[majormajor]

And if they get 80 points with average D and goaltending and normal amount of injuries should they get fired as well?

I think that season outcome would be unlikely.

If it unfolds like that it's not as obvious, in the abstract.

Unlike some I don't believe there is some ticking clock that Jarmo is on with the team. I think the moves and the judgment are what matters.

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

Unlike some I don't believe there is some ticking clock that Jarmo is on with the team. I think the moves and the judgment are what matters.

Agreed. It doesn't feel like this ownership/leadership group is setting benchmarks or deadlines without allowing for various types of context. The McConnells and Priest seem very happy to be silent types, meaning all we really know about anything is what Davidson tells us. And mostly he is getting asked about the work Jarmo is doing, but not to evaluate it - emphasis on "mostly."

This is also one of those discussions where it's not clear whether each individual poster is talking about what they think will happen (predicting what ownership will do) or what they think should happen (if they were making the decisions).

 

[traffic cone]

What does the team need to do this year to get Jarmo off of the hot seat?

If they finish bottom 5 is he fired? Bottom 10?

He’d first need to be on the hot seat to get off from it.

And should he leave or get fired he’ll be the most sought after GM in the whole league.

 

[CBJWerenski8]

I'm not as sure as others that Jarmo and JD are going down together, by the way. From what we know there's a chance that if Jarmo gets canned that it will be just him.

Agreed. I pretty much believe that JD has a job here until he doesn’t want it. Practically untouchable

 

[majormajor]

He’d first need to be on the hot seat to get off from it.

And should he leave or get fired he’ll be the most sought after GM in the whole league.

I think that's pretty much true despite the fact that half of his moves piss me off.

 

[JacketsDavid]

He’d first need to be on the hot seat to get off from it.

And should he leave or get fired he’ll be the most sought after GM in the whole league.

How many teams trying to tank for the next decade and are looking for the perfect GM to lead that?

Look he would be sought after as an assistant GM - you know a guy who puts trades together. But I can't image his ability to construct a roster would have too many other NHL franchises lining up?

I mean who would have guessed that adding Gudbranson last off season wouldn't have fixed our blue line?
Likely the same folks that understand that not bringing in a 1A goalie will be the downfall this year.

 

[CBJx614]

How many teams trying to tank for the next decade and are looking for the perfect GM to lead that?

Look he would be sought after as an assistant GM - you know a guy who puts trades together. But I can't image his ability to construct a roster would have too many other NHL franchises lining up?

I mean who would have guessed that adding Gudbranson last off season wouldn't have fixed our blue line?
Likely the same folks that understand that not bringing in a 1A goalie will be the downfall this year.

Lol okay.



Gudbranson was never brought in to fix the D. Also it's hard to fix a D when half of the regulars are hurt... But yeah let's leave that bit out.

Also how do you go about acquiring a 1A? Whose available? What assets are you using to get said goalie, and what are you doing with Elvis?


You talk a lot of shit without providing a lot of solutions. Everything we see is a tiny little percentage of what's going on and there are so many variables to consider, this isn't EA NHL where you can wheel and deal without worrying about all the little intricacies. Relationships with players, GMs, agents, scouts, coaches.

There aren't many GMs available that have the connections that Jarmo has. Both here and internationally. How many of us knew that Jarmo and Babcock go back 20+ years?

 

[Viqsi]

Lol okay.



Gudbranson was never brought in to fix the D. Also it's hard to fix a D when half of the regulars are hurt... But yeah let's leave that bit out.

Also how do you go about acquiring a 1A? Whose available? What assets are you using to get said goalie, and what are you doing with Elvis?


You talk a lot of shit without providing a lot of solutions. Everything we see is a tiny little percentage of what's going on and there are so many variables to consider, this isn't EA NHL where you can wheel and deal without worrying about all the little intricacies. Relationships with players, GMs, agents, scouts, coaches.

There aren't many GMs available that have the connections that Jarmo has. Both here and internationally. How many of us knew that Jarmo and Babcock go back 20+ years?

It's really quite remarkable to consider the number of people who play fantasy hockey and EA NHL and therefore think they know all the substantial parts of how this works. I don't claim to know how to organize a country because I play Civilization*. Or build a railroad company because I'm a fan of Empire Builder and its spinoffs.

*: specifically, Civ4; I will never accept 1UPT

 

[tunnelvision]

There aren't many GMs available that have the connections that Jarmo has. Both here and internationally.

 

[JacketsDavid]

Lol okay.



Gudbranson was never brought in to fix the D. Also it's hard to fix a D when half of the regulars are hurt... But yeah let's leave that bit out.

Also how do you go about acquiring a 1A? Whose available? What assets are you using to get said goalie, and what are you doing with Elvis?


You talk a lot of shit without providing a lot of solutions. Everything we see is a tiny little percentage of what's going on and there are so many variables to consider, this isn't EA NHL where you can wheel and deal without worrying about all the little intricacies. Relationships with players, GMs, agents, scouts, coaches.

There aren't many GMs available that have the connections that Jarmo has. Both here and internationally. How many of us knew that Jarmo and Babcock go back 20+ years?

So if Zach was healthy you think out blue line was fine last year?
I mean our blue line sucked the year before and you think adding a 3rd pairing guy that you're paying like a 2nd pairing guy solves anything?

I do talk a lot of shit I guess. I usually crap on the Jackets and the Jackets play down to that standard.

You live in a fantasy world. Also every GM knows each other. Not like there are 1000 guys to sort thru and Jarmo is the top of the food chain with some rolodex no one else has. Looks folks like to trade with him - he usually has cap room and it's a safe place to trade with (meaning the CBJ aren't very good, so it won't come back to haunt a team in the playoffs).

My solution if I was the GM since you asked:
-Don't sign Elvis to a big extension. That solves that problem. It was a bad contract to a guy who didn't deserve it.
-Don't sign a rookie head coach that had no idea what a defensive system was while he was on the bench.
-Don't sign Gudy to that big of a deal. Listen we needed toughness, but not a 4x4 for a 3rd pairing dman.

 

[Stubu]

Pretty safe to assume it will depend on numerous factors (point total, injuries, TDL, which players are carrying the team, what kind of impact Babcock has, ticket sales etc.) but I think bottom-5 finish would be inexcusable in any scenario from ownership's perspective. I can imagine Jarmo and JD surviving while being 6th-10th worst in the league but it's probably unlikely they would. 9th-12th in East and it's likely they will continue. Playoff spot would secure their jobs for at least another year.

I started thinking of different scenarios where Jackets would finish somewhere in the standings that would be tough to swallow for ownership but which wouldn't lead them to fire people necessarily -- suppose that would be around 12th in the East (80-85 points):

Scenario #1

- 25+ year old veterans play well or as expected, and for the most part are carrying the team (JG, Laine, Jenner, Kuraly, Merzlikins, Werenski, Severson, Provorov...)
- U25 players play as expected or worse. A lot of them spend time lower in the lineup, in the press box or in Cleveland (KJ, Fantilli, Marchenko, Voronkov, Texier, Chinakhov, Jiricek, Boqvist, Tarasov...)
- league average in man-games lost, goal differential and special teams

Scenario #2 (same amount of points as #1)

- 25+ year old veterans play as expected or worse, and are not carrying the team for the most part (JG, Laine, Jenner, Kuraly, Merzlikins, Werenski, Severson, Provorov...)
- U25 players play as expected or show significant development. A lot of them start to play higher in the lineup than some veterans and are at least temporarily carrying the team (KJ, Fantilli, Marchenko, Voronkov, Texier, Chinakhov, Jiricek, Boqvist, Tarasov...)
- league average in man-games lost, goal differential and special teams


In theory, which of these scenarios would be more "forgivable" for Jarmo and JD?

Wild guess: you are 25 years old. Any close?

Looking at your strict "25+ veterans" and "U25" dividing lines. I wouldn't draw them that way.