The Great Cam Barker Appreciation thread (And former Hawks talk vol 7)

[BobbyJet]

As generally happens in these situations, people talk past each other because of a failure to define terms at the outset. It's not really possible to meaningfully debate whether Saad is a mini-Hossa without defining what is a mini-Hossa.

But how can you define it? Not many players, past or present, can stack up to Hossa as a complete hockey player. I think we can all agree with that. He grew on me as seasons went by and was my favourite Hawk when he hung it up. He would probably be playing still if he didn't acquire that nasty skin problem.

 

[Hawkaholic]

Are you talking about career or in Hossa's days in Chicago? Hossa was a prolific scorer early in his career but that tapered off significantly. Not that he wasn't a valuable player but we all saw that Hossa didn't score a lot in the playoffs in his Chicago days. I repeat, Saad's offense comes alive in the PO's. Take a look at his contribution last season as another example.

Career, we are talking about 2 players here, not their time with the Hawks.
Fine, let's do time with Hawks

Saad playoff goals for Hawks 17 in 74GP = 0.23 goals per game
Hossa playoff goals for Hawks 21 in 107GP = 0.20 goals per game

And I literally just showed you that Saads offense actually goes down in the playoffs in the previous post, compared to regular season. Or did you just ignore that?

Saad regular season -
192 goals in 646GP = 0.3 goals per game
380pts = 0.59pts/GP

Saad playoffs
25 goals in 91GP - 0.27 goals per game
50pts = 0.55pts/GP

 

[BobbyJet]

Career, we are talking about 2 players here, not their time with the Hawks.
Fine, let's do time with Hawks

Saad playoff goals for Hawks 17 in 74GP = 0.23 goals per game
Hossa playoff goals for Hawks 21 in 107GP = 0.20 goals per game

And I literally just showed you that Saads offense actually goes down in the playoffs in the previous post, compared to regular season. Or did you just ignore that?

Saad regular season -
192 goals in 646GP = 0.3 goals per game
380pts = 0.59pts/GP

Saad playoffs
25 goals in 91GP - 0.27 goals per gae
50pts = 0.55pts/GP

You're also comparing the stats of a guy who just entered the league vs an established veteran who played with Jonathon Toews and on PP1 much of his time in Chicago. Saad steadily improved as he gained experience and has shown a penchant for performing up in the playoffs and scoring some key goals. He's durable as hell, hard on the puck, an excellent skater and penalty killer. To me, he is a Hossa lite.

 

[Hawkaholic]

You're also comparing the stats of a guy who just entered the league vs an established veteran who played with Jonathon Toews and on PP1 much of his time in Chicago. Saad steadily improved as he gained experience and has shown a penchant for performing up in the playoffs and scoring some key goals. He's durable as hell, hard on the puck, an excellent skater and penalty killer. To me, he is a Hossa lite.

And again, Saad scores more in the regular season, than he does in the playoffs. He doesn't perform up in the playoffs, his scoring goes down.

He isn't even that great defensively, meanwhile, Hossa was one of the best.

 

[hawksrule]

But how can you define it? Not many players, past or present, can stack up to Hossa as a complete hockey player. I think we can all agree with that. He grew on me as seasons went by and was my favourite Hawk when he hung it up. He would probably be playing still if he didn't acquire that nasty skin problem.

I'm not the one who used the term mini-Hossa, so I don't know what it means. I'm noting the futility in debating the accuracy of an apparently tendentious assertion in which the key underlying term remains undefined.

 

[Hawkaholic]

mini Hossa to me would be a 60-70pt winger who is pretty good defensively.

Saad is a 50pt winger who is OK defensively.

 

[featherhawk]

boqvist lights the lamp for the jackets

 

[Larmer83]

Strange. Jokiharju the TOI leader for Buffalo dmen in tonight's game against the Habs.

 

[Kaners Bald Spot]

BTW Kudos to those that realized Bowman was a problem before everyone jumped on board.
I was willing to give him the benefit of the doubt for the Cup teams for waaaay too long.

 

[Kaners Bald Spot]

Boqvist scored again today for CBJ.

 

[BobbyJet]

Boqvist scored again today for CBJ.

It was a bit of a gift goal but it is good to see Boqvist healthy and getting involved in the offense.... which he has to do to be successful.

 

[BobbyJet]

I'm not the one who used the term mini-Hossa, so I don't know what it means. I'm noting the futility in debating the accuracy of an apparently tendentious assertion in which the key underlying term remains undefined.

Someone here gave Saad that tag early in his career and it seemed appropriate being the man-child right out of Junior.

 

[Marotte Marauder]

Saad is the closest to a 200' player on Hawks other than Hossa.

That his P/O scoring is nearly the same as R/S is pretty damn good.

Hossa R/S .87 ppg
P/O .73 ppg.

So there's that

 

[BK]

Saad is the closest to a 200' player on Hawks other than Hossa.

That his P/O scoring is nearly the same as R/S is pretty damn good.

Hossa R/S .87 ppg
P/O .73 ppg.

So there's that

TT was good defensively from the start.

PD was a really good defensive player as well but showed zero offense.

 

[Larmer83]

Boqvist with a one-time snipe against the Blues. He had a secondary assist in the 1st period. Both on the PP. 4 points in 3 games.

 

[clydesdale line]

 

[ClydeLee]

That's where he needs to be. I always didn't like him at the point less he was gonna train more at the AHL there. He was a weapon in the OHL from the circles

 

[featherhawk]

2 G 1 assist for Boqvist tonight

 

[DisgruntledHawkFan]

Ryan Hartman has 11+4 in twenty games. Always felt he had forty plus point buzz saw talent.

 

[Northernhawk]

Ryan Hartman has 11+4 in twenty games. Always felt he had forty plus point buzz saw talent.

Meh
Was never that impressed with him

 

[TLEH]

If Boqvist figures it out, which he played 20 minutes last night and had 2 G and 1 A, this trade gets even MORE f***ed.

 

[BobbyJet]

If Boqvist figures it out, which he played 20 minutes last night and had 2 G and 1 A, this trade gets even MORE f***ed.

That's always been the argument. It was bad enough to trade youth for a Dougie or a Seth but it made it way worse to offer up Hawks' most promising young Dman in Boqvist and a #1 draft pick.

 

[Kaners Bald Spot]

If Boqvist figures it out, which he played 20 minutes last night and had 2 G and 1 A, this trade gets even MORE f***ed.

It already looks f***ed with Boqvist/Sillinger/Bean and they haven't even used the Hawks 1st rounder this year yet.

Jarmo had nowhere near the amount of leverage to get what he did from Bowman.

 

[Hattrick Kane]

This place is ridiculous. The same people saying this trade is extremely messed up are the ones who shit on Boqvist non-stop last year.

Boqvist is not anywhere near Jones’ level and likely never will be unless he improves his skating and isn’t ridiculously weak along the boards. But he got hot on the powerplay for a game so people overreact.

 

[BK]

It already looks f***ed with Boqvist/Sillinger/Bean and they haven't even used the Hawks 1st rounder this year yet.

Jarmo had nowhere near the amount of leverage to get what he did from Bowman.

Wtf are you talking about? Boqvist has not played well in Columbus. Bean has nothing to do with this.