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The Fate of Dubas

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Rubyblue said:
Dubas has done an excellent job, correcting bad signings. Done as good as any GM could finding cheap players to fill the roster. Unfortunately his drafting is abysmal which highlites the amount of money given to too few players. No team has yet won the Cup with a 10 million dollar player on it and relatively speaking, probably never will. He's lucky he's got a loyal boss in Shanahan or he'd been gone a year ago.
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How has the drafting been bad? Depending on the Sandin situation, we could be seeing as many as 4 of his draft picks playing on the Leafs this year and potentially another 2-3 the following year.
 
Rubyblue said:
Dubas has done an excellent job, correcting bad signings. Done as good as any GM could finding cheap players to fill the roster. Unfortunately his drafting is abysmal which highlites the amount of money given to too few players. No team has yet won the Cup with a 10 million dollar player on it and relatively speaking, probably never will. He's lucky he's got a loyal boss in Shanahan or he'd been gone a year ago.
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this argument two years ago was "no player with a 10 million dollar player has won a round", players with cap hits that are the equivalent have won the cup.
 
Stinger8 said:
EVERY big name free agent is signing for less than $10MM and you want to give one over $14MM and another almost $13MM??? This is the most preposterous thing I have read here in a looooong time
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Other teams will make those offers

While we're at it do you care to prognosticate the UFA type offers Mr. Draisatil or Mr McJeebuzz might be looking at when and if they become available, or what they themselves will ask the Oilers for when negotiations open?

If either one of them hear a number that sounds anything like 10m they will quietly chuckle and say "preposterous!" As would Mssrs Matthews or MM.

By the time either of the Leafs players are ready to open talks the cap could very well be at 90 to 92m which BTW what I was basing those cap hits on.

Preposterous indeed dear boy!
 
therealkoho said:
Other teams will make those offers

While we're at it do you care to prognosticate the UFA type offers Mr. Draisatil or Mr McJeebuzz might be looking at when and if they become available, or what they themselves will ask the Oilers for when negotiations open?

If either one of them hear a number that sounds anything like 10m they will quietly chuckle and say "preposterous!" As would Mssrs Matthews or MM.

By the time either of the Leafs players are ready to open talks the cap could very well be at 90 to 92m which BTW what I was basing those cap hits on.

Preposterous indeed dear boy!
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MnM is no where close to a $13MM player. He is over paid right now by about $1MM. Mathews I can understand. Mathews is a smidge below MacKinnon in my opinion and it will be interesting to see what Bic Mac signs for next year. If Mac signs for $11MM giving Mathews $14MM is ludicrous. As an aside I would take Tkachuk at $9.5 over Marner at $10.8MM every day of the week.
 
acrobaticgoalie said:
How has the drafting been bad? Depending on the Sandin situation, we could be seeing as many as 4 of his draft picks playing on the Leafs this year and potentially another 2-3 the following year.
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I can’t think of anyone other than Sandin and Robertson who would potentially be in the lineup next year.
 
Dreakmur said:
I can’t think of anyone other than Sandin and Robertson who would potentially be in the lineup next year.
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Holmberg and then Knies at the end of the year.

There might be too many bodies now with Kampf, Engvall, Jarnkrok, Simmonds, Clifford, Malgin, Gaudette and NAK all battling for bottom 6 spots but Robertson and Holmberg still have a very good chance at beating some of those guys out in camp or at least getting in some games to cover for injuries or getting a taste at the end of the year.

Holmberg played very well in Sweden and played well for the Marlies when he came over at the end of the year.
 
acrobaticgoalie said:
Holmberg and then Knies at the end of the year.

There might be too many bodies now with Kampf, Engvall, Jarnkrok, Simmonds, Clifford, Malgin, Gaudette and NAK all battling for bottom 6 spots but Robertson and Holmberg still have a very good chance at beating some of those guys out in camp or at least getting in some games to cover for injuries or getting a taste at the end of the year.

Holmberg played very well in Sweden and played well for the Marlies when he came over at the end of the year.
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Those guts are all battling for like 1 spot, so they can’t all make it.
 
Dreakmur said:
Those guts are all battling for like 1 spot, so they can’t all make it.
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Three spots on the 4th line open. I think only NAK will be a regular. Clifford and Simmonds will likely be either extras or buried on the Marlies. Malgin is either NHL or back to Europe. Gaudette could easily be beat out by Robertson or Holmberg.

Like I said Robertson, Holmberg and Knies will likely all get games at some point due to injury call ups or getting in some load management games at the end of the year. We might even see Kral get a few games if there's a lot of injuries on the left side.
 
acrobaticgoalie said:
Three spots on the 4th line open. I think only NAK will be a regular. Clifford and Simmonds will likely be either extras or buried on the Marlies. Malgin is either NHL or back to Europe. Gaudette could easily be beat out by Robertson or Holmberg.

Like I said Robertson, Holmberg and Knies will likely all get games at some point due to injury call ups or getting in some load management games at the end of the year. We might even see Kral get a few games if there's a lot of injuries on the left side.
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I thought you meant they would be regulars. If you mean they could get spot duty, then I agree you could see those guys.
 
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Bust said:
I’m going to ramble here…

I think that’s subjective. I mean, our paper tiger teams of the past have garnered us constant results. Maybe this is a better mix for Dubas. Who knows.

I think it all boils down to pressure and culture. I think there’s a certain personality type out there that we need to be chasing. Unlike other clubs, I truly think this is an area we’ve overlooked. I think we get caught up in “player types” (power forward, playmaker, big-RHD, ext) vs “personally types” that we should be focusing on.

We got really, really lucky with Matthews. Outside of him being an absolute elite, high end player, he’s a gamer in the truest sense. He loves the spotlight. He loves the cameras on him. He’s built for it. He’s a rockstar. I think we got lucky with Reilly aswell, while he’s not that “franchise” level of player - he consistently plays his game and plays very well under pressure. Muzzin is cut from that same cloth.

Even if we compare these guys directly to some of our other high end players, you can certainly see the difference in how they deal with pressure. Let’s take Marner for example: the kid is unreal, some of the best vision and hockey IQ I’ve ever seen in a player. But we’ve all seen it, the puck over the glass, the “D-zone” gaffs while on the power play, the slowwwww start he got off too after the contract when he knew fans/media were questioning him.

Look at all the players we’ve “broken”/couldn’t cut it over the last few years: Andersen, Campbell, Mzarek, Gardiner, Kessel (his last season), phaneuf, Barrie, the list goes on. I think it’s VERY telling that we chew up goalies and Dmen, the pressure is immense on these positions.

But that is never going to change here; what needs to change is how we’re vetting these guys. I hate to be that guy, but we need more
Toronto born players, leaf fans, guys that not only get it, but have a track record of “getting it”. Players and coaches with swagger, tough guy energy. Players and coaches who exude what it takes to win IN TORONTO.

As for culture, we are way too nice. I’m sick of it. I love Willy, I was at his first ever game. I love the guy. But the fact that he talks about the promise dubas made that he won’t be traded while dubas is GM, I’m sorry but that’s bullshit. And that’s not on Nylander. Accountability needs to come from the top.

I love JT. I love that he came home. I love that he walked in, as our first legitimate top-line captain since Sundin and had a monster season. Love the guy. I was ready to hurt someone after the first NYI game. But none of the boys showed up. No guts. No balls. And that’s been a constant since JT was named captain. It’s a culture - again, that needs to come from the top.

How can guys gain confidence from that soft, nurturing, elementary culture, who may not have those levels to their personality? They can’t. When it’s all pats on the back in the room afterwards. There’s no aggression, no passion, no commitment to each other. Everyone is safe.

I knew it after the NYI game and especially after the MTL series. This isn’t the team. I’m sorry boys this just isn’t it.

Sorry for the ramble.
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Dubas has worked every year to try and improve the team and help the core. They haven't gotten it done and thus none of them have earned any position of entitlement. In sports no one is untouchable and when you lose the final game in a series six straight in the First Round...I don't know what to say.

Basically they need more personalities like Muzzin, preferably in their prime. The problem is that others teams are aware that such players lift the team into that zone. It's what a clear headed Kane did for the Oilers. Swagger, sacrifice, a desire to win and prove the world wrong. It's why some of us like Clifford and Simmonds because they care, even if they aren't always the most skilled. These types seem to be in short supply and it's difficult to watch at times.

Dubas has been shortchanged as far as I am concerned. Yes, he has to own the outcome but that first round reffing against T.B was horrific to the point of it reeking of something. It defied the reasonable expectation of reffing over the last four decades I have watched hockey.

This team isn't lacking skill, it never has in Dubas era. They need a clique in that dressing room that is lead by a handful of competititve, "won't take losing" players.

Dubas used the term "presence". I like the term. It's easier said than done since every GM knows what the other needs. These issues aren't pressed until both sides need to gamble a bit, deadline is the prime time, though I'm sure Dubas and his team are keeping tabs on available players on top of what he has in the system.
 
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Stinger8 said:
MnM is no where close to a $13MM player. He is over paid right now by about $1MM. Mathews I can understand. Mathews is a smidge below MacKinnon in my opinion and it will be interesting to see what Bic Mac signs for next year. If Mac signs for $11MM giving Mathews $14MM is ludicrous. As an aside I would take Tkachuk at $9.5 over Marner at $10.8MM every day of the week.
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Trust me no you wouldn't.
 
Pretty sure the decisions made 4-5 yrs ago are what should be concerning, the results from those signings back then are the cause of the signings today. Not much you can do when you are at the cap threshold, sign fringe players is the only option.
Other than trading away one of your top 4 guys for cap space.
 
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Dekes For Days said:
He signed a 17.30% x 5 year contract. The highest value post-ELC contract ever.
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Again, he signed a year early and that skewes things. Based on the year his contract started, Crosby signed at 15.2%. This would also apply to Matthews and he signed at 14.2%.

So 1% difference. For a player with a 69 career high in points and another with 120 career high in points.

The agents would 100% bring this up you know. If cap hits are based on cap percentage, those that sign a year early will use future cap projections, not the current cap.
 
Throw More Waffles said:
Again, he signed a year early and that skewes things.
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What would be "skewed" would be looking at a cap hit percentage based on a cap that didn't exist and wasn't known at time of signing, and pretending it's based off of that. Signings are based off of the cap at time of signing. Crosby signed a 17.30% x 5 year contract - the highest value post-ELC contract ever.
Throw More Waffles said:
For a player with a 69 career high in points and another with 120 career high in points.
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Ah, I see we're back to this wildly inaccurate description of the players.
 
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