The fans here have been asking for a team like this for years now, they got what they wanted. This is the monkey's paw

[Dreakmur]

We bring in players who fans think have more bite than they do, and then fans think they get neutered...

Reaves fights 4 times a year and throws a good hit every 20 games... Domi uses his stick and fights like once a year... Bertuzzi gets in the odd scrum and finishes his forecheck like you've seen here...

I think the expectations of the players being brought in are a little higher than what they actually bring...

I'd rather Clifford up at this point and I think most people would prefer him after a few games, he actually causes some chaos and has some bite.

They bring in players who thrive as part of a pack, and they hang them out to dry.

 

[TMLAM34]

I think the team is anything but what the fans wanted…

 

[CabanaBoy5]

I wanted some "snot" added to this team, not the clear nasal passages that Reaves, Domi, and Bertuzzi have delivered.

 

[Darcy Tucker]

I wanted some "snot" added to this team, not the clear nasal passages that Reaves, Domi, and Bertuzzi have delivered.

Yes , we demand more mucus.

 

[CabanaBoy5]

Yes , we demand more mucus.

I'd settle for a little phlegm at this point.

 

[Nineteen67]

Did Tampa ever have a Reaves type?

The Tampa model is to get the best goalie in the league, the best D in the league, and a top 5 forward, and then surround them with other high end talent and the odd grinder with skill. Their team was built mostly on skill and good players, nothing like what Brad is trying to do.

10 yrs ago Reaves is great for entertainment. Keeps the flies away in during the dog days. I wish the players policed the game and not the DOPS.

Does annyone disagree with your assessment of Tampa building their team properly. They had some great players with a high hockey IQ and once they decided to play with a pack mentality, they got over the hump.

The Leafs on the other hand go into every season with several unanswered questions, because they mismanaged the rebuild. If player A can do something he’s never done, same with player B, C, D, and so on, then maybe they'll will win a couple of rounds. You can overcome a couple of unknowns, but you can’t have so many.

 

[frog]

First off this team currently has no snarl in the top 6.. Bertuzzi and Domi have been softer this season than nylander.

Second if Reaves being in our lineup in the 4th line as our 18th player is the reason we are losing we have major problems. Leafs should be too talented to worry about our 18th player scoring goals or chipping in defensively.

This team is more skilled than most and still suck..Leafs need toughness, emotion and grit in their lineup. Reaves seems to be the only one that cares even though he sucks.

If I was Keefe Id tell Bertuzzi and Domi if you arent gonna score or contribute then play mean and chippy and hit and fight to rile up the lifeless softies like tavares and Klingberg so they dont fall asleep on the ice anymore. Bertuzzi and Domi need to stop playing like tavares and play like they used to when they beat up kesler and go after kadri and talk shit

 

[kevsh]

You wanted a big name D-man, you got John Klingberg.

Your entire post is way off base but this one is just silly.
Apparently you misunderstood. We wanted a Big D-man who can play in the top 4. Don't care if his name is Anonymous Brown. We got none of those things in Klingberg.

We also wanted a puck moving D-man who could push Reilly off the first PP unit. In that regard, yes, we got a guy that can QB the power play, but unfortunately he can't do anything else.

 

[notbias]

They bring in players who thrive as part of a pack, and they hang them out to dry.

Reaves has never thrived, Bertuzzi and Domi are mixed results, but they play low IQ hockey, Klingberg has been bad for a few years and the trend has continued. Not sure they really thrive as a pack.

Still think Domi/Bertuzzi are skilled enough that they can find their role on the team... Klingberg I have less confidence in and Reaves I have 0.

 

[thewave]

Did Tampa ever have a Reaves type?

The Tampa model is to get the best goalie in the league, the best D in the league, and a top 5 forward, and then surround them with other high end talent and the odd grinder with skill. Their team was built mostly on skill and good players, nothing like what Brad is trying to do.

Sounds like a smart strategy! Who should we trade to get the smart thing going on here as well? I mean now that Dubas basically left us with a G hole and D hole and the core are actually starting to get to the age where those holes should have been filled a few years ago...

 

[notbias]

10 yrs ago Reaves is great for entertainment. Keeps the flies away in during the dog days. I wish the players policed the game and not the DOPS.

Does annyone disagree with your assessment of Tampa building their team properly. They had some great players with a high hockey IQ and once they decided to play with a pack mentality, they got over the hump.

The Leafs on the other hand go into every season with several unanswered questions, because they mismanaged the rebuild. If player A can do something he’s never done, same with player B, C, D, and so on, then maybe they'll will win a couple of rounds. You can overcome a couple of unknowns, but you can’t have so many.

But the core of Tampa lost in 4 the year before they won... I guess the role players fixed the core?

Not sure we have the same kind of role players though. Bertuzzi is the closest to the Colemans and Goodrows, no one else is.

Sounds like a smart strategy! Who should we trade to get the smart thing going on here as well? I mean now that Dubas basically left us with a G hole and D hole and the core are actually starting to get to the age where those holes should have been filled a few years ago...

If we bring in worse defensive players like Treliving did this year, it will fix the holes you speak of, clearly.

 

[CabanaBoy5]

Your entire post is way off base but this one is just silly.
Apparently you misunderstood. We wanted a Big D-man who can play in the top 4. Don't care if his name is Anonymous Brown. We got none of those things in Klingberg.

We also wanted a puck moving D-man who could push Reilly off the first PP unit. In that regard, yes, we got a guy that can QB the power play, but unfortunately he can't do anything else.

But unfortunately, he has sucked on PP1. I heard he had a booming shot, haven't seen it. He doesn't get pucks through, way too many are into the defender's shin pads. He is said to walk the line well, haven't seen it. He's got a ton of defensive deficiencies, he can at least deliver on what was promised. Put him into the "disappointing thus far" box along with Domi, Bertuzzi, and Reaves.

 

[notbias]

It's not realistic to expect that Dubas' flawed approach could be corrected in such a short period of time.

So do the Colorado approach? Make the team bad and then hope you get a generational D? Is that the strategy of far this year? It looks like it so far.

 

[thewave]

But the core of Tampa lost in 4 the year before they won... I guess the role players fixed the core?

Not sure we have the same kind of role players though. Bertuzzi is the closest to the Colemans and Goodrows, no one else is.



If we bring in worse defensive players like Treliving did this year, it will fix the holes you speak of, clearly.

Are we supposed to expect star defenders for peanuts? Our team is a mess defensively and Keefe isn't helping

 

[TheTotalPackage]

None of these things were solved in the offseason. But the foundation for these problems was laid by the previous regime.

 

[notbias]

Are we supposed to expect star defenders for peanuts? Our team is a mess defensively and Keefe isn't helping

Our team was good defensively last year and we had essentially the same goalies and coach... something changed in the offseason...

It isn't a secret we sacrificed D for offensive power this year... why is this Keefe's fault? Teaching Domi, Reaves, Bertuzzi, and Klingberg to play defensively is not an easy task, no other coach has succeeded.

We also had 2x the most expensive D in cap space this summer.

 

[Guided by Veseys]

Our team was good defensively last year and we had essentially the same goalies and coach... something changed in the offseason...

But the only D change really is Klingberg in for Holl. Klingberg sucks but Holl actually full out lost games for the leafs (which Klingberg will surely do in time). Hopefully we don’t see a wistful overvaluation of Justin Holl; I can’t remember a more maligned leaf over his tenure.
Kerfoot was a good defensive player but nothing special. Bunting is not good defensively. Lafferty is good defensively but only played sparingly. Not sure what’s going on but the team isn’t much different in terms of defensive skill and overall talent from last season.

 

[ACC1224]

But the only D change really is Klingberg in for Holl. Klingberg sucks but Holl actually full out lost games for the leafs (which Klingberg will surely do in time). Hopefully we don’t see a wistful overvaluation of Justin Holl; I can’t remember a more maligned leaf over his tenure.
Kerfoot was a good defensive player but nothing special. Bunting is not good defensively. Lafferty is good defensively but only played sparingly. Not sure what’s going on but the team isn’t much different in terms of defensive skill and overall talent from last season.

Reaves in for Simmonds is the real culprit.

 

[Gallagbi]

Its a stupid thread to rub salt in the wounds of many.

The team isnt playing well. New additions have been poor, but so have many existing Leafs.

Now we get the hyperbolic responses of Tre's approach being Neanderthals and Dubas approach being speedskating pixie dust. Both added a mixed bag of players to varying success.

At the end of the day, our top players need to control play more and not JUST produce. Domi/Bert/Knies need to find a fit. Reaves/Kampf need to find a role because they don't have one right now. Kling needs to remove his head from his ass. And our D needs to get healthy

 

[notbias]

But the only D change really is Klingberg in for Holl. Klingberg sucks but Holl actually full out lost games for the leafs (which Klingberg will surely do in time). Hopefully we don’t see a wistful overvaluation of Justin Holl; I can’t remember a more maligned leaf over his tenure.
Kerfoot was a good defensive player but nothing special. Bunting is not good defensively. Lafferty is good defensively but only played sparingly. Not sure what’s going on but the team isn’t much different in terms of defensive skill and overall talent from last season.

Domi, Bertuzzi, and Reaves are all really bad defensively, especially compared to the players they are replacing.

I think that is bigger than Klingberg, but still, 20+ minutes a night of Klingberg means there is one of the worst defenders on for 1/3 of the game.

Bunting was with Marner/Matthews, he didn't need to be anything defensively, if we put any of the players there, they would be hidden too.

We had a defensive line last year too, we don't have that, it was supposed to be the 4th but Gregor/Kampf/Reaves was terrible.

Holl is actually good defensively despite his mistakes.

Its a stupid thread to rub salt in the wounds of many.

The team isnt playing well. New additions have been poor, but so have many existing Leafs.

Now we get the hyperbolic responses of Tre's approach being Neanderthals and Dubas approach being speedskating pixie dust. Both added a mixed bag of players to varying success.

At the end of the day, our top players need to control play more and not JUST produce. Domi/Bert/Knies need to find a fit. Reaves/Kampf need to find a role because they don't have one right now. Kling needs to remove his head from his ass. And our D needs to get healthy

Serious question, which existing Leafs have been bad? It is a very short list. But because of this, I hope it is just growing pains.

Samsanov, Holmbeg, and Kampf were re-signed.

 

[rumman]

But the only D change really is Klingberg in for Holl. Klingberg sucks but Holl actually full out lost games for the leafs (which Klingberg will surely do in time). Hopefully we don’t see a wistful overvaluation of Justin Holl; I can’t remember a more maligned leaf over his tenure.
Kerfoot was a good defensive player but nothing special. Bunting is not good defensively. Lafferty is good defensively but only played sparingly. Not sure what’s going on but the team isn’t much different in terms of defensive skill and overall talent from last season.

Klingberg would be fine if he was used appropriately, like on the power play only appropriately………

 

[notbias]

"Why are we worse defensively?"

Spoiler: This is why

Spoiler: Bonus

 

[egd27]

Did Tampa ever have a Reaves type?

The Tampa model is to get the best goalie in the league, the best D in the league, and a top 5 forward, and then surround them with other high end talent and the odd grinder with skill. Their team was built mostly on skill and good players, nothing like what Brad is trying to do.

or the last guy

 

[rumman]

"Why are we worse defensively?"

Spoiler: This is why

View attachment 763846
View attachment 763847
View attachment 763848
View attachment 763849

Spoiler: Bonus

View attachment 763850

Holl’s being properly utilized with Detroit, with Toronto…..not so much……

Did Tampa ever have a Reaves type?

The Tampa model is to get the best goalie in the league, the best D in the league, and a top 5 forward, and then surround them with other high end talent and the odd grinder with skill. Their team was built mostly on skill and good players, nothing like what Brad is trying to do.

Patrick Maroon says hi……..

 

[notbias]

Patrick Maroon says hi……..

0.15PPG vs 0.40PPG tells me they are slightly different players...

Which team regularly played a plug who couldn't do anything but fight in the playoffs and won?

MacDermid played a little for Colorado due to injuries, maybe the best example.