The Fall of Pierre

[swiftwin]

That depends on what happens. Giroux will need to be replaced eventually and possibly Debrincat depending on what happens with his contract. A good young & inexpensive goalie would be helpful as well. That might be Sogaard or Merilainen, but its too early to tell and we don't know yet.

It isn't really a problem to have top level prospects. They can always be traded if it boils down to that and top level prospects will always have value and be coveted by teams. It's far better to have a pipeline and steady stream of top notch prospects. I have no idea why anyone would say that we don't need them.

I'm not saying we'll never need top prospects. All I'm saying is that all our top prospects have recently graduated, and most are locked in or are going to be locked in long term. A top prospect is not an immediate or even medium future need for us right now.

 

[Big Muddy]

I'm not saying we'll never need top prospects. All I'm saying is that all our top prospects have recently graduated

You probably should have stopped about here ^. That part I agree with. I disagree with the rest.

 

[Burrowsaurus]

You probably should have stopped about here ^. That part I agree with. I disagree with the rest.

I don’t think our prospect pool at the moment is that bad. I think it’s about average but obviously missing a sure fire elite player.

Boucher ostapchuk jarventie.

Jbd thomson guenette

This is a fine top 6. Remember jarventie is still very young even tho drafted with stutzle and Sanderson.

If you want additional elite prospects on top of stutzle and Sanderson who are only 20 and 21 you’re likely asking for too much. Other teams don’t have that either.

 

[Big Muddy]

I don’t think our prospect pool at the moment is that bad. I think it’s about average but obviously missing a sure fire elite player.

Boucher ostapchuk jarventie.

Jbd thomson guenette

This is a fine top 6. Remember jarventie is still very young even tho drafted with stutzle and Sanderson.

If you want additional elite prospects on top of stutzle and Sanderson who are only 20 and 21 you’re likely asking for too much. Other teams don’t have that either.

I've been pretty clear about my definition of top level. For example, at forward, which prospect would replace Debrincat or Giroux when that time comes. If you think we have that, great. I don't see that.

 

[Loach]

I don’t think our prospect pool at the moment is that bad. I think it’s about average but obviously missing a sure fire elite player.

Boucher ostapchuk jarventie.

Jbd thomson guenette

This is a fine top 6. Remember jarventie is still very young even tho drafted with stutzle and Sanderson.

If you want additional elite prospects on top of stutzle and Sanderson who are only 20 and 21 you’re likely asking for too much. Other teams don’t have that either.

That's a bad bottom 6. Lol

 

[Byron Bitz]

The less he opens his mouth the better it is for everybody.

We can just rewatch last year’s I’m sure hel say the same things, maybe add a line about how his girlfriend is proud of him for playing meaningful games in March

 

[Burrowsaurus]

That's a bad bottom 6. Lol

At least that fourth line will be able to defend!

I've been pretty clear about my definition of top level. For example, at forward, which prospect would replace Debrincat or Giroux when that time comes. If you think we have that, great. I don't see that.

I just said we don’t have a sure fire elite prospect. To replace debrincat and giroux you would need that.

I think jarventie has that potential though.

 

[Big Muddy]

At least that fourth line will be able to defend!


I just said we don’t have a sure fire elite prospect. To replace debrincat and giroux you would need that.

I think jarventie has that potential though.

I guess we are in to the definition of "elite" now. I am merely making the distinction between the top half of the roster and the lower half of the roster. If you use the word "elite" to describe the top half of the roster, then fine. I don't & that's not how I would define "elite". Debrincat is tied for 70th in scoring for skaters. I don't consider that to be elite.

 

[Golden_Jet]

I guess we are in to the definition of "elite" now. I am merely making the distinction between the top half of the roster and the lower half of the roster. If you use the word "elite" to describe the top half of the roster, then fine. Debrincat is tied for 70th in scoring for skaters. I don't consider that to be elite.

So “elite” for you is top half of roster ( first and second line) and 70th would make him a first line player, if there are supposedly 96 first line players.
But that Doesn’t make him elite, by your definition.

Sounds like you’re expecting too much for the word elite. Even though first line numbers, by average.
Seems like your confusing yourself.

 

[Big Muddy]

So “elite” for you is top half of roster ( first and second line) and 70th would make him a first line player, if there are supposedly 96 first line players.
But that Doesn’t make him elite, by your definition.

Sounds like you’re expecting too much for the word elite. Even though first line numbers, by average.
Seems like your confusing yourself.

NO, I think you are confused. I didn't say that a player that plays in the top half of the roster is elite. I said that I think someone else is using that definition, not me. Someone else mentioned the word elite - not me. I don't consider Debrincat as elite. McDavid is elite. Makar is an elite offensive defenseman. Just because you play in the top half of a team's roster does not make you elite imho. I have no idea where you came up with the idea or where you think I said that. A player who is tied for 70th is scoring for skaters is not elite imo. There are very few (a handful) "elite" players (imo).

The only point (in my posts) I made with regards to our prospects is that I don't see which of our prospects could fill the role of Debrincat or Giroux when they depart. That's it = full stop. I made no other point and somebody else brought the concept (or word) elite into this conversation.

I'm leaving this conversation. It's getting too bizarre to continue. I think some people just like to argue or play gotcha for the sake of it. Cheers.

 

[bashbros32]

Ouch!

So really, what we have in the prospect stable is all we really have for the next 3 years at least. That's a bit of a scary thought if Pinto doesn't improve and Norris continues to have shoulder woes.

Was Norris' injury from last year a shoulder injury (same shoulder) as well? If not I see no reason why he would continue to have shoulder injuries, Pinto didn't... Also I see a 35 point 3C as a pretty big positive personally.

 

[Tnuoc Alucard]

We getting a Dorion end of season press conference?

Yes

 

[Burrowsaurus]

I guess we are in to the definition of "elite" now. I am merely making the distinction between the top half of the roster and the lower half of the roster. If you use the word "elite" to describe the top half of the roster, then fine. I don't & that's not how I would define "elite". Debrincat is tied for 70th in scoring for skaters. I don't consider that to be elite.

And now we’re talking about debrincat one sub bar season lol.

And even then. If a team has a prospect who can score 27 and 39 assists… that’s a top tier prospect/elite prospect lol.
Jarventie is the only guy we have who I think can play in the top 6 if everything goes right. He isn’t a top tier prospect at the moment. But if he blows up next year in the AHL he will be.

If you had a bunch of prospects that could put up debrincat level numbers (to you, not elite) then that’s not a below average prospect pool that’s an unbelievable prospect pool.

You need an elite prospect to step in and replace debrincat.


I get it’s all business but amazing one one season can do to the perception of a player.

Instill remember in January reading about “debrincat for Jack Matier”

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

And now we’re talking about debrincat one sub bar season lol.

And even then. If a team has a prospect who can score 27 and 39 assists… that’s a top tier prospect/elite prospect lol.
Jarventie is the only guy we have who I think can play in the top 6 if everything goes right. He isn’t a top tier prospect at the moment. But if he blows up next year in the AHL he will be.

If you had a bunch of prospects that could put up debrincat level numbers (to you, not elite) then that’s not a below average prospect pool that’s an unbelievable prospect pool.

You need an elite prospect to step in and replace debrincat.


I get it’s all business but amazing one one season can do to the perception of a player.

Instill remember in January reading about “debrincat for Jack Matier”

@BondraTime already debunked that bit of "Fake News"

 

[Burrowsaurus]

@BondraTime already debunked that bit of "Fake News"

I didn’t see the reply. But it was absolutely talked about here.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

I didn’t see the reply. But it was absolutely talked about here.

Proposal: - Trade Rumours/Proposals [MOD - Stay on Topic]

You guys need to chill lol. What am I saying this board produced “what do we need to add to debrincat to get Jack Matier” This is what the board understands not what the board produced

forums.hfboards.com

 

[Burrowsaurus]

Proposal: - Trade Rumours/Proposals [MOD - Stay on Topic]

You guys need to chill lol. What am I saying this board produced “what do we need to add to debrincat to get Jack Matier” This is what the board understands not what the board produced

forums.hfboards.com

I seen’t. There was follow up discussion.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

I seen’t. There was follow up discussion.

 

[Burrowsaurus]

I ain’t lying. Why can’t people just say yeah I want Jack matier in exchange for debrincat. I wanted Evan see Kane for mark stone. Don’t be ashamed.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

I ain’t lying. Why can’t people just say yeah I want Jack matier in exchange for debrincat. I wanted Evan see Kane for mark stone. Don’t be ashamed.

too convenient. Just show us the evidence. Gotta put in the work to be elite.

 

[Burrowsaurus]

too convenient. Just show us the evidence. Gotta put in the work to be elite.

Been on these boards a long time. My brand is my brand.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

Been on these boards a long time. My brand is my brand.

You've been shifting your brand lately. But ok. Still just joking around I appreciate that.

 

[Burrowsaurus]

You've been shifting your brand lately. But ok. Still just joking around I appreciate that.

DJs interviews swayed me. What can I say

 

[Xspyrit]

Pittsburgh fires their entire top-level Hockey Operations staff after 1 season of missing the playoffs.

Our standards are just not the same here. You can see the narrative already building up : we missed the playoffs because of goaltending and injuries (like if other teams don’t face the same challenges)

We don’t aim for excellence and are called out for even having a « loser mentality » for demanding it (how is that even possible lol?). Being satisfied with what has been way below mediocrity is exactly why we are about to bring back Dorion and DJ’s coaching staff… There was absolutely no reason for this rebuild to be at least 7 years given the assets wealth at the beginning

Something is clearly wrong

At least there’s hope that new ownership will have a different vision and will want to start with a clean slate

After a scorching earth rebuild going on 6 years now, I demand nothing short of excellence. I will spend spend spend when that starts happening

 

[boxbox]

I've been pretty clear about my definition of top level. For example, at forward, which prospect would replace Debrincat or Giroux when that time comes. If you think we have that, great. I don't see that.

Giroux was signed as a FA, he was singed to fill a need/void. Hes here for one more year so his replacement can very well materialize in that time.

Debrincat is 25 years old, he is just entering the prime of his career. Ottawa didn't give up any prospects for him, only drafts picks. I have no issue when a team gives up draft picks to land a player like Debrincant; the chances any one of those draft picks shapes into a top tier goal scorer as AD has been last few seasons are very slim. Draft picks/ don't come with a result guarantee. Good scouting, picks # of selection .. do improve the chances of success but neither guarantees them. A rebuilding team does not make trades similar to this one without the intention of wanting to keep player. I would not worry too much about his replacement neither; more then one possible option available to get one if it comes to that

Any rebuilding team entering the latter final stages of the rebuild will gradually see the number of quality prospects decrease. Its a common cycle among prospects pools...team sucks/high draft picks/ better talent....team gets better/low draft picks/ less draft picks due to trades....the lack of currently available top prospects in the pool is by no means a gloom and doom scenario , more so a positive indicator of the pools high graduation rate amongst its prospects