The Fall of Pierre

[BankStreetParade]

Great work on offense, but our defense was a glaring issue and he basically did nothing to address it. He did an half-assed job.

Also, coaching is on him as well, so I can't see how you can say he did "good".

So if he traded assets for Chychrun, presumably including a Brannstrom or a Pinto, what would have changed so far?

 

[Hale The Villain]

Are we seeing that right now? Dorion was handcuffed by Eugene. That we can agree.

What if the last years are biting us in the ass right now? The lack of a top 4 d? That’s it? The most infamously hard to find and hard to acquire position in the league.

If by handcuffed you mean unable to spend to the cap, I agree. That was probably for the best if anything, given how badly Dorion has managed his cap space.

His pro scouting acquisitions have been absolutely awful over the years, and that's his main job as GM - to sign and trade for players.

Spending 3.25M in salary on Hamonic and then passing on Marino because of his contract was a massive mistake.

 

[Micklebot]

So if he traded assets for Chychrun, presumably including a Brannstrom or a Pinto, what would have changed so far?

Well nothing positive considering Chychrun hasn't played yet. Swap Chychrun for Marino and adjust the acquisition cost appropriately maybe we can have a good faith discussion though.

 

[Burrowsaurus]

Dorion is in a tough spot but imo his two failings are the D, and coaching.

Both can be partially attributed to constraints prior to Melnyk passing away.

The coaching he needs to fix. The D. He’s been saved by the fact that Sanderson looks very good very quick. When I watch our team it’s not the 6 guys in defence that f*** us. It’s the entire team playing the way it does that f***s us. That’s coaching. And that’s what we can put at dorions feet. Because as of right now ..hes let DJ and co dig us into waaaay too big of a hole

If by handcuffed you mean unable to spend to the cap, I agree. That was probably for the best if anything, given how badly Dorion has managed his cap space.

His pro scouting acquisitions have been absolutely awful over the years, and that's his main job as GM - to sign and trade for players.

Spending 3.25M in salary on Hamonic and then passing on Marino because of his contract was a massive mistake.

Those things are currently not burying us tho.

 

[Agent Zuuuub]

And they aren't losing because of those guys

Perhaps not individually but as a collective they are absolutely losing games because of them.

Look around the league, bottom 6s on good teams have playmking and two way play. This team is the opposite.

Our depth are liabilities. You can't be a good team when you have so many liabilities. Constant feature of Dorion teams.

 

[BankStreetParade]

Well nothing positive considering Chychrun hasn't played yet. Swap Chychrun for Marino and adjust the acquisition cost appropriately maybe we can have a good faith discussion though.

Well they weren't interested in Marino due to his contract and they were, and continue to be, very interested in Chychrun. So, no, that's not a good faith discussion if we want to discuss things that have some likelihood of happening.

 

[BondraTime]

Never understood the Ceci trade. Could literally have rode it out for the season and either trade him at the deadline for something, or let him go.

Instead, he did a move on the beckoning of the head coach.

We took on much, much more risk long term, and it’s currently biting us in the ass, and cussing out fans in DM’s.

Brown was a good revolving door type player, but in reality did nothing other than fill a spot in the lineup for a few years.

Leafs were able to saddle us with that contract for another 5 years, and just walk away from Ceci saving room, while adding a high pick. We got a few years service of Brown which amounted to absolutely nothing, and a growing headache in Zaitsev.

To be fair, don’t blame Zaitsev for going after some of these jokers.

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

Never understood the Ceci trade. Could literally have rode it out for the season and either trade him at the deadline for something, or let him go.

Instead, he did a move on the beckoning of the head coach.

We took on much, much more risk long term, and it’s currently biting us in the ass, and cussing out fans in DM’s.

Brown was a good revolving door type player, but in reality did nothing other than fill a spot in the lineup for a few years.

Terrible deal imo. Didn't like it at the time and don't like it now.

 

[L'Aveuglette]

Well they weren't interested in Marino due to his contract and they were, and continue to be, very interested in Chychrun. So, no, that's not a good faith discussion if we want to discuss things that have some likelihood of happening.

The fact that they weren't even interested in Marino is the actual issue here.

 

[Hale The Villain]

The fact that they weren't even interested in Marino is the actual issue here.

And were interested in Hamonic, and before him acquired Gudbranson, J.Brown and Zaitsev.

DJ loves physical "defensive" D who play hard like he did back in his playing days.

Never mind if they can move a puck, contribute offensively or even play defense well.

Dorion let's his coaches do his pro scouting for him and it's backfired tremendously.

 

[Burrowsaurus]

The fact that they weren't even interested in Marino is the actual issue here.

Alledgedly

Terrible deal imo. Didn't like it at the time and don't like it now.

I never actually understood why we had to take Zaitsev. Except that maybe the coach really wanted him. Cuz ceci was still valued around the league.

 

[NyQuil]

Our depth are liabilities. You can't be a good team when you have so many liabilities. Constant feature of Dorion teams.

Our depth is supposed to have Formenton and Pinto.

I never actually understood why we had to take Zaitsev. Except that maybe the coach really wanted him. Cuz ceci was still valued around the league.

You think we could have traded Cody Ceci for Connor Brown?

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

I never actually understood why we had to take Zaitsev. Except that maybe the coach really wanted him. Cuz ceci was still valued around the league.

Hard to say, but it probably had to do with DJ liking Zaitsev and the Leafs needing dollars out to fit Ceci's next contract.

I never liked the deal at the time and similar to the Phaneuf deal, the consequences down the line make it a valid question of whether or not it was the right deal to make even if someone liked it then.

 

[Micklebot]

Well they weren't interested in Marino due to his contract and they were, and continue to be, very interested in Chychrun. So, no, that's not a good faith discussion if we want to discuss things that have some likelihood of happening.

Idk, if I'm criticizing the team for not addressing the D, them not being interested in Marino due to his contract is pretty close to the top of my list of grievances. You can't just reframe it as they weren't interested in Marino therefore he wasn't a viable option to address the need, that's disingenuous as hell.

 

[Senator Stanley]

Never understood the Ceci trade. Could literally have rode it out for the season and either trade him at the deadline for something, or let him go.

Instead, he did a move on the beckoning of the head coach.

We took on much, much more risk long term, and it’s currently biting us in the ass, and cussing out fans in DM’s.

Brown was a good revolving door type player, but in reality did nothing other than fill a spot in the lineup for a few years.

Leafs were able to saddle us with that contract for another 5 years, and just walk away from Ceci saving room, while adding a high pick. We got a few years service of Brown which amounted to absolutely nothing, and a growing headache in Zaitsev.

To be fair, don’t blame Zaitsev for going after some of these jokers.

We have the worst pro scouting in hockey. It's been this way for years under Jim Clark.

 

[Burrowsaurus]

Our depth is supposed to have Formenton and Pinto.



You think we could have traded Cody Ceci for Connor Brown?

Why not

 

[Senator Stanley]

Why not

Ceci had very little value at that point. The only reason we got Brown was because we took on Zaitsev.

 

[swiftwin]

Brown was a good revolving door type player, but in reality did nothing other than fill a spot in the lineup for a few years.

I disagree. Brown was an extremely important stabilizing presence throughout the worst days of the rebuild. There's no doubt he had a positive impact on the development of many of the young players on the team right now.

Even Zaitsev was at times a serviceable #4 defenseman. It's only recently that his game has taken a big nose dive.

 

[Burrowsaurus]

I disagree. Brown was an extremely important stabilizing presence throughout the worst days of the rebuild. There's no doubt he had a positive impact on the development of many of the young players on the team right now.

Even Zaitsev was at times a serviceable #4 defenseman. It's only recently that his game has taken a big nose dive.

Zaitsev was never serviceable

 

[ksens]

If you can post something on that, I'd appreciate it. I must have missed that news.

The last thing I saw that mentioned a timeline was that a lease agreement needed to be in place by Fall 2023. There was also news about several potential buyers being interested in the team and approaching the company they've hired to help with the sale. Maybe the timing was included in that info but I just missed it.

Nobody knows for sure. I'm going on what I know about the process and what I've seen reported by Mendes - that an agreement is expected to be in place in the new year, and then it will take some time to formally close.

Obviously things could change based on various factors (how many groups are interested, vetting by the NHL, legal / due diligence process on the part of the buyers, etc.) but generally I get the feeling that this will be done within about 4-5 months.

 

[FunkySeeFunkyDoo]

I disagree. Brown was an extremely important stabilizing presence throughout the worst days of the rebuild. ....

When did that end?

 

[swiftwin]

When did that end?

I know you're trying to make a joke. But, the answer is when we stopped getting hemmed in our zone for 3/4 of the game and constantly doubled up on the shot clock. Having someone like Brown to throw on the ice to relieve pressure off the kids getting pounded, and push the puck to the offensive zone was huge.

 

[h2]

...and I'm done with supporting the team now until the entire management is cleaned out!

 

[BondraTime]

...and I'm done with supporting the team now until the entire management is cleaned out!

Once new ownership comes the whole slate will be clean.

Until then, just have to hope for the best moving forward this year.

This has been the expected outcome for a while now, ever since rumours of ownership change and financial troubles started to gain heavy traction a long time ago.

 

[h2]

Once new ownership comes the whole slate will be clean.

Until then, just have to hope for the best moving forward this year.

This has been the expected outcome for a while now, ever since rumours of ownership change and financial troubles started to gain heavy traction a long time ago.

Agreed. New ownership cleaning house is the next thing I'm holding onto now.