The Fall of Pierre

[Ice-Tray]

Dude what are you talking about.

I don't blame the Sens for letting Douglas walk. He's likely a career AHLer and doesn't have much value if any.

We should be trying out as many young marginal RD as possible considering we have not one but two holes on the right-side next season, and neither JBD or Thomson look like guarantees to hold down those spots.

Leafs and Habs picked up two similar quality cheap young RD for nothing while we sat there playing Zaitsev.

I mean it was you that brought in Douglas, and your post seemed to pretty clearly knock the team for ‘asset management’ until you were corrected.

As for trying out marginal talent, it makes me laugh. You are first in line to bash the team for trying marginal talent when it fails, while cherry picking teams that find success.

So what, we already have bottom pair quality guys on the team, and in the AHL, we don’t need anymore, and we definitely don’t need any more financial commitments on bottom players.

You Zaitsev post is disingenuous of course. We play him because we have him. And bringing in other bottom pairing guys to replace him is simply dumb.

JBD is already a better option.

 

[JD1]

Dude what are you talking about.

I don't blame the Sens for letting Douglas walk. He's likely a career AHLer and doesn't have much value if any.

We should be trying out as many young marginal RD as possible considering we have not one but two holes on the right-side next season, and neither JBD or Thomson look like guarantees to hold down those spots.

Leafs and Habs picked up two similar quality cheap young RD for nothing while we sat there playing Zaitsev.

I think JBD is guaranteed to hold one of those spots.

Let's take stock.

The team has 2 LDs that are PMDs that are locks. The team has a 3rd LD that is also a PMD that is maturing and looking good.

So what does the team need from an RD, knowing that it's not an RD that has PP capabilities?

The team needs a stable RD that plays responsible defensive minutes and, and this is critically important, that is cheap because we have cap issues

Now, take a look at JBD under that microscope. Barring injuries he'll have about 140 pro games under his belt, he'll be 23 years old, coached in the system we're trying to play, and from a defensive point of view, has been stellar at the AHL level.

As is your modus operandi, I grant that you've got the right to assess all NHL moves made between now and the start of next season and assess after 30 games next season which one is working out the best and then point at it as what the Sens should have done, but that level of crystal ball thinking isn't something most are blessed with. (Side note - I'm not sure what RD move the Habs made but not much is working out for them)

So, JBD probably looks pretty good in one of those slots.

 

[Sun God Nika]

From having infinite job security as a yes man to Eugene to now having to sell yourself as the best man for the job to someone you don’t know yet.

Pierre likely gets canned especially if new ownership is someone with NHL ties already and knows some GM candidates.

Big changes are likely coming after the ownership change which should be around the draft. Hopefully new management identifies the right players and doesn’t do something dumb like trade Batherson or Chabot before trying tHem with a different coach

 

[inthewings]

The perfect microcosm of Dorion's tenure here is the fact that he downgraded from Nick Paul to Mathieu Joseph and only ended up saving 200k a year in cap space. Paul is going to score 25 goals and 40+ points playing 17 minutes a night for one of the best teams in the league. Complete inability to evaluate talent.

 

[Loach]

From having infinite job security as a yes man to Eugene to now having to sell yourself as the best man for the job to someone you don’t know yet.

Pierre likely gets canned especially if new ownership is someone with NHL ties already and knows some GM candidates.

Big changes are likely coming after the ownership change which should be around the draft. Hopefully new management identifies the right players and doesn’t do something dumb like trade Batherson or Chabot before trying tHem with a different coach

Massive rehaul of the orgamization is coming I bet. New managment, coaching staff and the retool of the roster will start around Christmas next year. By the end of next summer, not the one coming up, it could be a very different roster.

 

[Xspyrit]

The perfect microcosm of Dorion's tenure here is the fact that he downgraded from Nick Paul to Mathieu Joseph and only ended up saving 200k a year in cap space. Paul is going to score 25 goals and 40+ points playing 17 minutes a night for one of the best teams in the league. Complete inability to evaluate talent.

He wanted to be here. His friend and linemate Connor Brown who he had crazy good chemistry with and who was also an excellent ES player wanted to be here with him. Result : they're both gone and we suck at 5 on 5 hockey

Nick Paul could be scoring 10 pts and he would still be an useful player. They have no idea how to play 2-way hockey, which is the only way to consistently win in today's NHL

 

[Xspyrit]

The perfect microcosm of Dorion's tenure here is the fact that he downgraded from Nick Paul to Mathieu Joseph and only ended up saving 200k a year in cap space. Paul is going to score 25 goals and 40+ points playing 17 minutes a night for one of the best teams in the league. Complete inability to evaluate talent.

Oh and speaking of microcosm of Dorion's tenure, there has been many but I just can't get over the Derek Stepan trade... I mean, teams get paid to take on players but we spent a 2nd round pick (that ended 37th OA nonetheless) on a 6.5 AAV Derek Stepan...

Or when he decided to get Mikkel Boedker for Mike Hoffman instead of just picks or to trade him within the division, just to see the Sharks doing that just after. Like Stepan, Boedker was a decent/good player at some point but in both cases, it seemed that their scouting reports were seriously outdated lol

 

[Hale The Villain]

The perfect microcosm of Dorion's tenure here is the fact that he downgraded from Nick Paul to Mathieu Joseph and only ended up saving 200k a year in cap space. Paul is going to score 25 goals and 40+ points playing 17 minutes a night for one of the best teams in the league. Complete inability to evaluate talent.

Good point. Their inability to evaluate talent extends to their own players and team.

Dorion trading the Sens 1st in the Duchene trade and then watching as the team finished last in the entire league is a crystal clear example of this.

Not re-signing Paul, DeMelo and Duclair and replacing them with Joseph, Hamonic and Dadonov is additional evidence.

 

[Agent Zuuuub]

Good point. Their inability to evaluate talent extends to their own players and team.

Dorion trading the Sens 1st in the Duchene trade and then watching as the team finished last in the entire league is a crystal clear example of this.

Not re-signing Paul, DeMelo and Duclair and replacing them with Joseph, Hamonic and Dadonov is additional evidence.

not to mention the draft.

Konecny, Miller, Peterka, Kaliyev etc. feels like all us amateur's were pining for these players.

guess the amateur's were right or Dorion is actually the biggest amateur of them all.

and now we're playing guys like Watson, Kelly, Hamonic, Brassard, Gambrell. 6/7 years deep into a rebuild lol

 

[Hale The Villain]

not to mention the draft.

Konecny, Miller, Peterka, Kaliyev etc. feels like all us amateur's were pining for these players.

guess the amateur's were right or Dorion is actually the biggest amateur of them all.

and now we're playing guys like Watson, Kelly, Hamonic, Brassard, Gambrell. 6/7 years deep into a rebuild lol

Yeah for all the talk about the Sens being a strong drafting team their overall record is pretty mediocre when not selecting extremely high in the draft.

They've outsmarted themselves far too often to the detriment of the franchise.

 

[Micklebot]

not to mention the draft.

Konecny, Miller, Peterka, Kaliyev etc. feels like all us amateur's were pining for these players.

guess the amateur's were right or Dorion is actually the biggest amateur of them all.

and now we're playing guys like Watson, Kelly, Hamonic, Brassard, Gambrell. 6/7 years deep into a rebuild lol

Konecny had some serious injury concerns leading into the draft as I recall, there were questions if he could play his game at the next level and stay healthy.

Miller is definitely a miss, but I recall questions about his defensive game, he was the guy I wanted that year though .

Seems a bit early to be declaring we missed wrt Peterka and Kaliyev though, I'm certainly not ready to say I'd trade Pinto for Kaliyev. Peterka looks good though,

 

[stempniaksen]

Konecny had some serious injury concerns leading into the draft as I recall, there were questions if he could play his game at the next level and stay healthy.

Miller is definitely a miss, but I recall questions about his defensive game, he was the guy I wanted that year though .

Seems a bit early to be declaring we missed wrt Peterka and Kaliyev though, I'm certainly not ready to say I'd trade Pinto for Kaliyev. Peterka looks good though,

I'd be willing to bet most around here would swap Lassi for Kaliyev though.

Not that this is a criticism of the drafting in general though, that's basically the only area that gets a passing grade these last few years (despite some misses, some obvious and some TBD).

 

[Hale The Villain]

Konecny had some serious injury concerns leading into the draft as I recall, there were questions if he could play his game at the next level and stay healthy.

Miller is definitely a miss, but I recall questions about his defensive game, he was the guy I wanted that year though .

Seems a bit early to be declaring we missed wrt Peterka and Kaliyev though, I'm certainly not ready to say I'd trade Pinto for Kaliyev. Peterka looks good though,

Konecny had some concussion issues I believe and had a disappointing draft season. Personally I liked Boeser at 21 that year. Either would have been much better selections than White.

Miller was the obvious pick at that spot. He was a recent convert to defense having played forward only a few years before, so the defensive game was a work in progress but his tools were unreal. Weirdly he seems like the type of prospect we'd absolutely love to pick, so that makes it sting even more.

I'd add Lassi and Boucher to the list of players we reached for that are looking worse than the "consensus" picks. Thought Tomasino and Sillinger were the obvious picks at those spots.

 

[bicboi64]

Good point. Their inability to evaluate talent extends to their own players and team.

Dorion trading the Sens 1st in the Duchene trade and then watching as the team finished last in the entire league is a crystal clear example of this.

Not re-signing Paul, DeMelo and Duclair and replacing them with Joseph, Hamonic and Dadonov is additional evidence.

Buying out Ryan, and then having to go out and sign a top 6 forward. Dorion created that problem, and his creation of that problem is still messing with our cap.

Having said that, I think the Dadanov gamble was fair.

Also, still waiting on the Winter of Dorion thread

 

[Cosmix]

The perfect microcosm of Dorion's tenure here is the fact that he downgraded from Nick Paul to Mathieu Joseph and only ended up saving 200k a year in cap space. Paul is going to score 25 goals and 40+ points playing 17 minutes a night for one of the best teams in the league. Complete inability to evaluate talent.

And that was one of his most recent screw-ups. I remember, Zibby, Stone, Hoffman, Pageau and other dumb trades.

Buying out Ryan, and then having to go out and sign a top 6 forward. Dorion created that problem, and his creation of that problem is still messing with our cap.

Having said that, I think the Dadanov gamble was fair.

Also, still waiting on the Winter of Dorion thread

I did not like the Dadonov pickup; he was too old, and not a center.

 

[aragorn]

He wanted to be here. His friend and linemate Connor Brown who he had crazy good chemistry with and who was also an excellent ES player wanted to be here with him. Result : they're both gone and we suck at 5 on 5 hockey

Nick Paul could be scoring 10 pts and he would still be an useful player. They have no idea how to play 2-way hockey, which is the only way to consistently win in today's NHL

View attachment 635799

My understanding was that Conner Brown was going to free agency regardless of what Paul did? He believed his numbers were good enough to be a top six player & get paid like one. The Joseph for Paul is definitely one that pissed me off. I liked Paul who could play up & down the lineup at LW or C but a lot of people on here didn't & wanted him traded & liked the Joseph acquisition as I remember it. If they bring up Sokolov he will likely replace Joseph on the 3rd line RW IMO he would bring much more offence. Next yr's TC will be interesting given there will be a few guys that will need to go through waivers if they don't make Ottawa to go to Belleville.

 

[bicboi64]

And that was one of his most recent screw-ups. I remember, Zibby, Stone, Hoffman, Pageau and other dumb trades.


I did not like the Dadonov pickup; he was too old, and not a center.

I do agree that there could've been better options, but personally I was a bit surprised that anyone wanted to sign in Ottawa at all. Gave me some faith that we could still attract free agents and Dadonov was on pace for 25 goals.

Definitely think you have a valid point though

 

[Micklebot]

My understanding was that Conner Brown was going to free agency regardless of what Paul did? He believed his numbers were good enough to be a top six player & get paid like one. The Joseph for Paul is definitely one that pissed me off. I liked Paul who could play up & down the lineup at LW or C but a lot of people on here didn't & wanted him traded & liked the Joseph acquisition as I remember it. If they bring up Sokolov he will likely replace Joseph on the 3rd line RW IMO he would bring much more offence. Next yr's TC will be interesting given there will be a few guys that will need to go through waivers if they don't make Ottawa to go to Belleville.

The rumours that Brown was going to test free agency only came out in the summer after Paul was traded, don't recall who, but one of the sens insider posters suggested Brown was upset about Paul being traded.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

Good point. Their inability to evaluate talent extends to their own players and team.

Dorion trading the Sens 1st in the Duchene trade and then watching as the team finished last in the entire league is a crystal clear example of this.

Not re-signing Paul, DeMelo and Duclair and replacing them with Joseph, Hamonic and Dadonov is additional evidence.

The Duchene trade is a good example of not being able to evaluate their own roster.

The rumours that Brown was going to test free agency only came out in the summer after Paul was traded, don't recall who, but one of the sens insider posters suggested Brown was upset about Paul being traded.

I think there is something to that. Hard to say how things actually went down with Brown as well. He's not the type to say much to the media either.

 

[aragorn]

The rumours that Brown was going to test free agency only came out in the summer after Paul was traded, don't recall who, but one of the sens insider posters suggested Brown was upset about Paul being traded.

That I haven't heard anywhere, but who knows for sure, we may neevr know the truth.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

Mornings Hour 1

JR can't find his keys, who will Simmer cheer Bucs were ousted, Sens fall in St. Louis, bottom 6 can't score and take a late penalty, Cam Talbot mistake, strong game for JBD, Cowboys end Tom Brady's season and Brett Maher steals the show.

www.tsn.ca

discuss roster discussion and current big gap between top 6 and bottom 6
and the "Bottom 6 isn't scoring"

 

[Tnuoc Alucard]

Oh and speaking of microcosm of Dorion's tenure, there has been many but I just can't get over the Derek Stepan trade... I mean, teams get paid to take on players but we spent a 2nd round pick (that ended 37th OA nonetheless) on a 6.5 AAV Derek Stepan...

Or when he decided to get Mikkel Boedker for Mike Hoffman instead of just picks or to trade him within the division, just to see the Sharks doing that just after. Like Stepan, Boedker was a decent/good player at some point but in both cases, it seemed that their scouting reports were seriously outdated lol

OMG, that lost 2nd round draft pick was the last piece of the puzzle…….Would have been the difference maker for this and subsequent seasons, and multiple Stanley Cup Wins.

 

[YouGotAStuGoing]

OMG, that lost 2nd round draft pick was the last piece of the puzzle…….Would have been the difference maker for this and subsequent seasons, and multiple Stanley Cup Wins. View attachment 636672

Hard to say anything positive or negative about Josh Doan (picked at 37 by Arizona) at this stage since he hasn't played a game yet. But in the interim, we can still accept that the process was flawed in moving a relatively high value pick for a player on the decline.

 

[BankStreetParade]

not to mention the draft.

Konecny, Miller, Peterka, Kaliyev etc. feels like all us amateur's were pining for these players.

guess the amateur's were right or Dorion is actually the biggest amateur of them all.

and now we're playing guys like Watson, Kelly, Hamonic, Brassard, Gambrell. 6/7 years deep into a rebuild lol

This is pretty disingenuous. We have depth who are out because they're injured or had a contract dispute. If Motte, Joseph, Norris and Formenton were all healthy and signed, today, would any of Gambrell, Kelly, Watson, Brassard be playing? What's the point you're making? That we didn't have 4 more high quality bottom 6 forwards ready and waiting in Belleville? Brassard came on a PTO. Gambrell signed as the 13F. Kelly and Watson are 4th liners. What exactly is the expectation here and why is it so unrealistic?

 

[Senovision]

After 8 years of drafting players at the draft we have 2 players that play defense on a nightly basis for us Chabot and Sanderson. And Sanderson only started playing for us this year.
After 6 years of rebuilding look at our defensemen.
Not good enough is an understatement. Pathetic.