The fact the Jets have the highest point percentage in the Central while having no players that are PPG is scary

[cneely]

So you’re not going to respond? Coward.



I was certainly rooting for the Jets in that game, for obvious reasons.

I’m not going to pretend I watched the whole 60 minutes, but I caught the late stages and it’s the same template they’ve followed all season. Get an ugly goal, take advantage of a defensive gaffe, pick one up on the PP. When your goalie puts up a .950 to the other guy’s .885 despite being massively outshot, that’s enough for a road win. It’s the playbook for a team that has a Hart contender in net.

LMAO. You should have stopped after saying you didn't watch the game.

 

[redwings25]

Very deep team that plays a mans game. There division is tough with the avalanche, stars and nashville has been unstoppable lately somehow. Best division in hockey and any of the top 4 teams could go on a run, win the cup. Hell the wild and blues are coming after vegas or la and i bet one of em make it in.

 

[LuGBuG]

The have a team-wide .920 save% while the next best teams have a .913. That’s a massive gap which easily accounts for and exceeds their offensive struggles.

But it also looks “scary” for their postseason outlook. Teams need to be well-rounded to make a deep run. All-defense teams are just as likely to hit an ill-timed slump as all-offense teams.

I wouldn’t say they are all Defense though either. Very balanced scoring that can do damage while keeping the puck out.

 

[Toby91ca]

I didn't realize they were ranked quite that low in team goal standings, I misremembered that one.

There were hardly any PPG players back then, barely clearing 100 points was all it took for an Art Ross.

But I just don't see the similarities between the cup winning Kings and this year's Jets. In 2012 they had two centers playing at a damn near Selke level (Kopitar and Richards), and in 2014 they had two recent 40 goal scorers (Carter and Gaborik) in an era where 40 goals was a lot.

If you breakdown the rosters by position, the Kings player is better than the Jets player almost every single time. Kopitar>Scheifele, Richards (2012)/Carter (2014)>Monahan, Doughty>Morrissey, Voynov>Pionk, I could keep going down the lineup... The only ones that're relatively even are Conner vs Carter (2012)/Gabroik (2014) and Hellebuyck vs Quick.

I don't know.....it's not as simple to just do a player vs. player assessment, more goes into a winning team than just a collection of players. The reality is that LA was a surprise winner both years really.....less so in 2014, but in 2012 they were coming into the playoffs as an 8 seed....getting out of the first round was a surprise. In 2014, format had changed, no longer 1-8 seed, they were 3rd place in their division, just above wild card.....but less doubt for them that year as they had done it before and people felt they were more built for playoffs, don't worry too much about regular season record.

I still look at those LA teams though....8 seed and 3rd place in division team and think Winnipeg is sitting in a better spot as a 1st place team in their division (currently anyway).

 

[Tasteless Beaver]

Part of the reason why individual scoring hasn’t been great for the Jets is because the power play has been putrid, it was an awful strategy and system that just didn’t work. It’s been warmer since Monahan showed up I believe, but we still have 38 power play goals to Colorado’s 60. Distribute 22 power play goals on the Jets PP players’ stat totals and far more would be over the 1.0 PPG mark. That’s hardly indicative of a team that lacks offensive talent, but this team makes its hay at 5v5, which is much more difficult. If they figure out PP scoring, I can’t wait to see what new excuse the naysayers come up with.

 

[RR44]

"I didn't watch the game but let me give me opinion anyways" is this forum in a nutshell

Mic drop comment of the day...actually this week, well done! And take a bow...

 

[Joe Hallenback]

The Carolina guy dumping on the Jets because we are a defense only/Hellysaveus team. Yes we are the best defensive team in the league but for the love of god the only thing that separates us in terms of scoring with Carolina is around 20 goals which is probably due to the fact are powerplay sucked to start the season and we didn't score much on it.

Give your head a shake we are good and yes our goalies(Brossoit has been lights out too) are part of that too.

We still have to get through Dallas, Colorado and the Preds so we know it won't be easy but we have the depth, size, skill to give any team a headache

 

[cneely]

The Carolina guy dumping on the Jets because we are a defense only/Hellysaveus team. Yes we are the best defensive team in the league but for the love of god the only thing that separates us in terms of scoring with Carolina is around 20 goals which is probably due to the fact are powerplay sucked to start the season and we didn't score much on it.

Give your head a shake we are good and yes our goalies(Brossoit has been lights out too) are part of that too.

We still have to get through Dallas, Colorado and the Preds so we know it won't be easy but we have the depth, size, skill to give any team a headache

By my math, Carolina has 157 goals at even strength (5v5, 4v4 and 3v3)
The Jets have 151. Carolina has played one more game.

 

[HamiltonNHL]

The have a team-wide .920 save% while the next best teams have a .913. That’s a massive gap which easily accounts for and exceeds their offensive struggles.

is this the stat you are talking about ?

NHL Team Stats Save Percentage | StatMuse

The Montreal Canadiens have a save percentage of .879 this season.

www.statmuse.com

team save percentage sure is on the decline.

source - https://www.stat.cmu.edu/cmsac/sure/2023/showcase/hockey_saves/report.html

 

[RR44]

The thing is, you need both depth and top end players. The Jets have proven they have the depth. But their top end pieces are all well below Colorado, Vegas, Dallas, Vancouver, and Edmonton. The first 3 all have just as good depth too

Colorado, Edmonton, L.V., Dallas and Vancouver would all find room on their top 6 forwards for Scheifele, Connor, Toffoli and perhaps Ehlers and Monohan. Morrissey at worst would be a #3 on L.V., Dallas and Colorado and I'd make the arguement he'd be a #1 or 2 in Dallas...he'd unquestionably be the #1 in Edmonton and #2 in Vancouver. And other than Vancouver, Hellebuyck would be the #1 goalie in Dallas, Edmonton, Colorado and L.V.

 

[Whileee]

So you’re not going to respond? Coward.



I was certainly rooting for the Jets in that game, for obvious reasons.

I’m not going to pretend I watched the whole 60 minutes, but I caught the late stages and it’s the same template they’ve followed all season. Get an ugly goal, take advantage of a defensive gaffe, pick one up on the PP. When your goalie puts up a .950 to the other guy’s .885 despite being massively outshot, that’s enough for a road win. It’s the playbook for a team that has a Hart contender in net.

So you watched the last couple minutes at 6v5? Because if you had watched enough of the game, you wouldn't have been so wrong in your assessment of the game. Jets dominated in xG at EV until a late push by the Rangers who were behind by 2 in the 3rd.

 

[cneely]

Colorado, Edmonton, L.V., Dallas and Vancouver would all find room on their top 6 forwards for Scheifele, Connor, Toffoli and perhaps Ehlers and Monohan. Morrissey at worst would be a #3 on L.V., Dallas and Colorado and I'd make the arguement he'd be a #1 or 2 in Dallas...he'd unquestionably be the #1 in Edmonton and #2 in Vancouver. And other than Vancouver, Hellebuyck would be the #1 goalie in Dallas, Edmonton, Colorado and L.V.

Yeah, certainly the Avs and Oilers have better top end offensive talent, but I'm having a hard time finding multiple players on Vegas, Dallas and Vancouver better than the Jets group.

Eichel and maybe Stone if he's healthy, but neither is better offensively than Scheifele and Connor.
Robertson?
Elias and JT? Is Miller a 1.3 PPG player now?

 

[JKG33]

I don't know.....it's not as simple to just do a player vs. player assessment, more goes into a winning team than just a collection of players. The reality is that LA was a surprise winner both years really.....less so in 2014, but in 2012 they were coming into the playoffs as an 8 seed....getting out of the first round was a surprise. In 2014, format had changed, no longer 1-8 seed, they were 3rd place in their division, just above wild card.....but less doubt for them that year as they had done it before and people felt they were more built for playoffs, don't worry too much about regular season record.

I still look at those LA teams though....8 seed and 3rd place in division team and think Winnipeg is sitting in a better spot as a 1st place team in their division (currently anyway).

Sure it's not that simple, some teams are worse than the sum of their parts and others are better. But nobody's going to argue a team that won 2 cups and went to a 3rd conference final is worse than the sum of its parts.

The 2012 Kings were a surprise in the same way the 2019 Blues were. Horrible first half of the season, but one of the best teams in the league for the final third or so. Not exactly a Cinderella run when a team is as dominant as they were.

In 2013 and 14 the Kings and Hawks were the easy favorites no matter where they finished in the regular season. You knew one of them was winning the cup. The regular season really doesn't matter for teams that good, and the Jets just don't fall into that category yet.

Colorado, Edmonton, L.V., Dallas and Vancouver would all find room on their top 6 forwards for Scheifele, Connor, Toffoli and perhaps Ehlers and Monohan. Morrissey at worst would be a #3 on L.V., Dallas and Colorado and I'd make the arguement he'd be a #1 or 2 in Dallas...he'd unquestionably be the #1 in Edmonton and #2 in Vancouver. And other than Vancouver, Hellebuyck would be the #1 goalie in Dallas, Edmonton, Colorado and L.V.

Of course those teams would "find room" to have one teams 1st liners be their own 2nd line. But McD/Drai, Mac/Rantanen, Eichel/Stone, Miller/EP are all far better than anyone the Jets have. And that's my point. Their depth is fine but their top end talent doesn't match the other contenders.

Heiskanen vs Morrissey is a toss up for sure, but again teams like Vegas and Colorado where he'd be a #3 is certainly a problem. And the difference between Hellebuyck and the goalies in Colorado/Dallas/Vegas is much smaller than the gap in high end talent at F and D.

 

[Romang67]

Heiskanen vs Morrissey is a toss up for sure, but again teams like Vegas and Colorado where he'd be a #3 is certainly a problem. And the difference between Hellebuyck and the goalies in Colorado/Dallas/Vegas is much smaller than the gap in high end talent at F and D.

Is it? This season the difference between the goalies has been pretty big. Hill has been pretty bad since returning from injury, Georgiev has the 26th highest save percentage among starters, and Oettinger has the 34th highest save percentage among starters.

 

[JKG33]

Is it? This season the difference between the goalies has been pretty big.

Regular season is pretty meaningless, all of these players have a large enough playoff sample size to use.

Vegas won the cup with Hill and a team that on paper looks worse than this years (when healthy). They'll be fine.

Otter is having a tough year in Dallas, but if he shows up in the playoffs like he has the last few years there's no goalie I'd rather have, including Hellebuyck.

Georgiev is trash ill give you that, but I also think there's the biggest gap between the Jets vs Avs top end guys.

 

[GreatSaveEssensa]

The thing is, you need both depth and top end players. The Jets have proven they have the depth. But their top end pieces are all well below Colorado, Vegas, Dallas, Vancouver, and Edmonton. The first 3 all have just as good depth too

Connor is top 10 in the league in goals scored since he came into it in 2017. He’s no slouch at scoring.

Scheifele had 42 goals last season. This season he is playing at ppg pace and his 2 way game and effort level is light years better than the last 3 seasons. He has played himself back into the running to make team Canada for the Olympics.

Morrissey is one of the best dmen in the league and is criminally underrated. And of course Hellebuyck is the best goalie in the world.

The also have Toffolli who is on pace for 36g, Monahan who is a really good 2c option with 20g 50 pts. Ehlers who can give a team fits with his blinding speed, agility and world class shot. Vilardi, who would be on pace for around 35g if not for his freak injury at the start and his spleen injury now.

Colorado, Edmonton, L.V., Dallas and Vancouver would all find room on their top 6 forwards for Scheifele, Connor, Toffoli and perhaps Ehlers and Monohan. Morrissey at worst would be a #3 on L.V., Dallas and Colorado and I'd make the arguement he'd be a #1 or 2 in Dallas...he'd unquestionably be the #1 in Edmonton and #2 in Vancouver. And other than Vancouver, Hellebuyck would be the #1 goalie in Dallas, Edmonton, Colorado and L.V.

Morrissey would be a 1b on Vegas. He is criminally underrated

 

[JKG33]

Connor is top 10 in the league in goals scored since he came into it in 2017. He’s no slouch at scoring.

Scheifele had 42 goals last season. This season he is playing at ppg pace and his 2 way game and effort level is light years better than the last 3 seasons. He has played himself back into the running to make team Canada for the Olympics.

Morrissey is one of the best dmen in the league and is criminally underrated. And of course Hellebuyck is the best goalie in the world.

The also have Toffolli who is on pace for 36g, Monahan who is a really good 2c option with 20g 50 pts. Ehlers who can give a team fits with his blinding speed, agility and world class shot. Vilardi, who would be on pace for around 35g if not for his freak injury at the start and his spleen injury now.

Morrissey would be a 1b on Vegas. He is criminally underrated

Thats good for them. But all of those players are well below McDavid, Draisaitl, Petersson, Miller, MacKinnon, Rantanen, Eichel, Stone, Hughes, Makar, Toews, Pietrangelo, Theodore. That's an elite group and being below them isn't an insult at all. But those are the horses on playoff competitors, and all of those teams with the exception of Edmonton have comparable depth too.

 

[Romang67]

Regular season is pretty meaningless, all of these players have a large enough playoff sample size to use.

Vegas won the cup with Hill and a team that on paper looks worse than this years (when healthy). They'll be fine.

Otter is having a tough year in Dallas, but if he shows up in the playoffs like he has the last few years there's no goalie I'd rather have, including Hellebuyck.

Georgiev is trash ill give you that, but I also think there's the biggest gap between the Jets vs Avs top end guys.

Adin Hill's large enough sample size is 16 games, all in one playoff run.

What do you think Oettinger did in the playoffs last year? I know he's for all intents and purposes a mythological figure after his one series in 2022, but he didn't exactly replicate that last year.

 

[RR44]

Connor is top 10 in the league in goals scored since he came into it in 2017. He’s no slouch at scoring.

Scheifele had 42 goals last season. This season he is playing at ppg pace and his 2 way game and effort level is light years better than the last 3 seasons. He has played himself back into the running to make team Canada for the Olympics.

Morrissey is one of the best dmen in the league and is criminally underrated. And of course Hellebuyck is the best goalie in the world.

The also have Toffolli who is on pace for 36g, Monahan who is a really good 2c option with 20g 50 pts. Ehlers who can give a team fits with his blinding speed, agility and world class shot. Vilardi, who would be on pace for around 35g if not for his freak injury at the start and his spleen injury now.

Morrissey would be a 1b on Vegas. He is criminally underrated

I rarely miss Winnipeg games on TSN and if they're featured on SN...31 other GM's would give their right arm to have Morrissey. And other than 3 maybe 4 teams (Vancouver, NYR, Florida, T.B.) given their goalies are probably an equal, every other GM would take Hellebuyck in a millisecond as their #1 goalie.

 

[JKG33]

Adin Hill's large enough sample size is 16 games, all in one playoff run.

What do you think Oettinger did in the playoffs last year? I know he's for all intents and purposes a mythological figure after his one series in 2022, but he didn't exactly replicate that last year.

Connor Hellebuyck career playoffs: 40GP .916SV%

Jake Oettinger career playoffs: 28GP .917SV%

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

They play the best team defense in the league and have a Vezina winner (likely soon to be a two-time winner) backstopping the team.

In the playoffs I have my doubts they’ll score enough, but they are in every game they play because of the way they are structured and the structure within their system.

Potentially the only team in the league you could call a defensive team. You could probably call 25 teams an offensive team.

 

[Romang67]

Connor Hellebuyck career playoffs: 40GP .916SV%

Jake Oettinger career playoffs: 28GP .917SV%

You're moving the goal posts. Are you picking Oettinger because he always shows up in the playoffs, or because his 28 game sample in the playoffs has him at .001 sv% higher than Hellebuyck?

 

[Toby91ca]

The 2012 Kings were a surprise in the same way the 2019 Blues were. Horrible first half of the season, but one of the best teams in the league for the final third or so. Not exactly a Cinderella run when a team is as dominant as they were.

I don't know, without doing a real deep analysis, I think LA was pretty mediocre all the way through the 2011/12 season. First 2/3 = 27-18-10 record (0.582 pt%) vs. last 1/3 = 13-9-5 (0.574 pt%).

Anyway, it doesn't matter that much. At the end of the day, the Playoffs is basically a tournament and the best team doesn't always win. A lot of things have to go your way and the better teams have the better chances of that happening, but you are basically looking to get on a hot streak at that right time.

 

[JKG33]

You're moving the goal posts. Are you picking Oettinger because he always shows up in the playoffs, or because his 28 game sample in the playoffs has him at .001 sv% higher than Hellebuyck?

I'm not moving goal posts at all. You're the one trying to cherry pick sample sizes.

I'm saying he's every bit as good as the great Hellebuyck, and I personally would take him to steal me a series as opposed to Hellebuyck (who wouldn't be very far down the list to be fair)

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

Boring defensive team, I guess.