The Erik "Gudzilla" Gudbranson Thread

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Nice to know you can tell the future. Want to share tomorrow's lottery numbers?

I see no reason to expect Gudbranson to be here beyond this year, based on the rest of the roster and the salary cap. So until he's here beyond this year, I'm not going to assume he'll be here. It makes no logical sense for him to be here past this season, so I don't see any reason to start screaming about him being here long term right now.

I hope you're right.

But I saw no reason for Jack Johnson being an every day player this year. And yet we had to endure a presser telling us all what a bunch of meanie doo-doo heads we all are and how essential dude is.

I totally get that GM speak is a thing. But something tells me he and the entire management team WANT these guys and don't necessarily just see them as a stepping stone. It would line up with their recent "toughness and size" trend, too.

 

[MrBurghundy]

Right. The Pens were a speed and skilled puck possession team and Schultz fit that mold. Whether it would pan out or not was up for debate, but there was a clear fit. Whatever the hell JR keeps doing now is confusing as hell. What is the identity of this team? How do these players fit?

It just pisses me off to no end that we had an identity.

WE HAD A f***ING IDENTITY.

We won 2 cups with that identity.

Then we suddenly do a 180, and go directly in the opposite direction for no apparent reason.

Every other damn team saw that our identity was something to emulate, and now those teams are the top teams in the league. What the actual f***?

 

[Peat]

I will say I do like that he can admit his mistakes and undo a move. The problem is he keeps committing the same mistake, undoing it, and committing it again with a different player.

Yeah... loopy. No plan. Rudderless.

My best guess -

He wants a tough guy or two that'll play. Not easy in an up tempo team that tends to make big slow turning bodies look not so good. So he's cycling through the tough guys until he can find the one that sticks, backing himself to regain asset value every time he's wrong.

Does this sound plausible?

 

[Turin]

Nice to know you can tell the future. Want to share tomorrow's lottery numbers?

I see no reason to expect Gudbranson to be here beyond this year, based on the rest of the roster and the salary cap. So until he's here beyond this year, I'm not going to assume he'll be here. It makes no logical sense for him to be here past this season, so I don't see any reason to start screaming about him being here long term right now.

It makes no logical sense for him to be here NOW.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I hope you're right.

But I saw no reason for Jack Johnson being an every day player this year. And yet we had to endure a presser telling us all what a bunch of meanie doo-doo heads we all are and how essential dude is.

I totally get that GM speak is a thing. But something tells me he and the entire management team WANT these guys.

Like I said earlier, there is 1 big difference between Johnson and Gudbranson. There is no good justification behind either of them, but you can justify Johnson based on bad logic. You can assume that the team views him as something he's not, and he was brought in under faulty and wrong opinions. Gudbranson? You can't even justify it based on bad logic.

 

[deakka]

And then you have to play with 5D for 5 minutes or more.

Judging from Guds -29 and advanced stats that might not be the worst thing tbh....

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Isn't this kinda what he's always done as GM wherever he's been though?

Do you think he really has what it takes to take an honest introspection?

I dunno man... I hope he can. Nothing to base that on but me wishing it to be so.

Ever since I was told two summers ago this was how he wanted to start leaning, I didn’t want to believe it was true and he could be so misguided.

However, it’s pretty undeniable he has in fact shifted his philosophy and it’s been a pretty incredible feat of undoing what was an very successful blueprint.

I dunno about senile but I feel like dude is a little loopy, sometimes. The way that he explains a lot of his personnel decisions are utter fantasy.

I don’t think he’s loopy, just very misguided. He had a successful blueprint, and before anyone could stop it, he decided to undo it himself and go another way. It would be like Crosby completely changing how he prepares for the season because he wants to be like Phil...

 

[Empoleon8771]

It makes no logical sense for him to be here NOW.

No, it does make some sort sense. It's just wrong and a bad decision, but it does make sense. The Penguins just had injuries to Letang and Dumoulin, and Letang was injured trying to stand up for Dumoulin in a fight. They had 2 D spots open up, and JR wanted to get toughness because of how Letang was injured. Enter Gudbranson.

There is a logical thought process behind acquiring him, it's just a bad one. There is no logical thought process for keeping Gudbranson beyond the year once everyone is healthy.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

My best guess -

He wants a tough guy or two that'll play. Not easy in an up tempo team that tends to make big slow turning bodies look not so good. So he's cycling through the tough guys until he can find the one that sticks, backing himself to regain asset value every time he's wrong.

Does this sound plausible?

It does but that's a really, really, really, really dumb plan. Those guys are like leprechauns or unicorns. You don't just go fishing for them and expect to hit gold. You gotta draft and develop them yourself because no team is gonna give up a guy who is big, physical AND can play on a top line or in your top 4. He was able to overpay and get Reaves who would have maybe KIND of fit that mold. But that was as close as he was gonna get and he flipped him before the year was even out.

No plan.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

Nice to know you can tell the future. Want to share tomorrow's lottery numbers?

I see no reason to expect Gudbranson to be here beyond this year, based on the rest of the roster and the salary cap. So until he's here beyond this year, I'm not going to assume he'll be here. It makes no logical sense for him to be here past this season, so I don't see any reason to start screaming about him being here long term right now.

Well, rental implies expiring contract, no? Gudbranson's signed for two more years. I suppose he could be moved this summer or something, but I've no real confidence in that choice being made by the powers that be within this organization, after seeing the moves we've made and reading the transcript of JR's presser yesterday.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Well, rental implies expiring contract, no? Gudbranson's signed for two more years. I suppose he could be moved this summer or something, but I've no real confidence in that choice being made by the powers that be within this organization, after seeing the moves we've made and reading the transcript of JR's presser yesterday.

When I say "rental", I mean he's not going to be here next year and is only here for this playoff run. There is no justification for this team keeping Gudbranson based on the rest of the roster.

I think there are 2 different kind of "bad" decisions, a bad one and an unjustifiable one. Bringing in Jack Johnson was a bad decision. You can justify it based on what they thought of Johnson, but it was a bad decision because Johnson actually sucks. Bringing in Gudbranson right now is the same, it is a bad decision but you can justify it. Keeping Gudbranson beyond the year, when everyone is healthy? You can't even justify making that decision.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Like I said earlier, there is 1 big difference between Johnson and Gudbranson. There is no good justification behind either of them, but you can justify Johnson based on bad logic. You can assume that the team views him as something he's not, and he was brought in under faulty and wrong opinions. Gudbranson? You can't even justify it based on bad logic.

Like I said I hope you are right. But holding on to Gudbranson fits their misguided new philosophy so I suppose we'll have to wait and see. Obviously I would have to think how the rest of the season goes will be a big factor, too.

 

[Turin]

No, it does make logical sense. It may be bad logic, but it does make sense. The Penguins just had injuries to Letang and Dumoulin, and Letang was injured trying to stand up for Dumoulin in a fight. They had 2 D spots open up, and JR wanted to get toughness because of how Letang was injured. Enter Gudbranson.

There is a logical thought process behind acquiring him, it's just a bad one. There is no logical thought process for keeping Gudbranson beyond the year once everyone is healthy.

Every stupid thing can be called “bad logic” and keeping Gudbranson is the same thing as acquiring him. It’s hilarious, given the past year, that you’d just give them the benefit of the doubt.

 

[MartinS82]

Embrace it guys and girls. Have fun with it. Dis gun b gud!

This clip fails to show that there is like 30 seconds left in a 4-0 game. No need to try and paint him as worse then he is.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

When I say "rental", I mean he's not going to be here next year and is only here for this playoff run. There is no justification for this team keeping Gudbranson based on the rest of the roster.

I see. Well, I hope you're right, but there's no indication, in my eyes, that they went out and snagged him for the next two months as opposed to the duration of his contract.

There was no justification for this team to go out and trade for him either, to be fair. Justification isn't exactly this team's thing anymore.

 

[MrBurghundy]

I dunno man... I hope he can. Nothing to base that on but me wishing it to be so.

Ever since I was told two summers ago this was how he wanted to start leaning, I didn’t want to believe it was true and he could be so misguided.

However, it’s pretty undeniable he has in fact shifted his philosophy and it’s been a pretty incredible feat of undoing what was an very successful blueprint.

I just don't get it. He took a successful formula, threw it away, and replaced it with a formula that HIS SUCCESSFUL FORMULA beat twice in 2 years.

In what world is that sane?

Not only that, but other teams saw that formula was successful, and modeled themselves after it. Now they are some of the most successful teams in the league.

W.
T.
F.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Every stupid thing can be called “bad logic” and keeping Gudbranson is the same thing as acquiring him. It’s hilarious, given the past year, that you’d just give them the benefit of the doubt.

Sorry for thinking they wouldn't make a decision that they literally couldn't justify? I don't know what to tell you. Bringing in Gudbranson and signing Johnson were bad decisions, but you can't even justify keeping Gudbranson. There isn't an argument for keeping him at that salary, considering who else the Penguins have. You just can't do it. It's not even me having confidence in JR, it's me thinking that no GM would make a decision that has literally no argument behind it.

Like I said I hope you are right. But holding on to Gudbranson fits their misguided new philosophy so I suppose we'll have to wait and see. Obviously I would have to think how the rest of the season goes will be a big factor, too.

My hope is that Gudbranson doesn't suck, they realize Johnson is a mess and trade Johnson. I hate the idea of keeping Gudbranson much less than I hate the idea of keeping Johnson. Realistically, you're not getting rid of both, so I'll pick the less bad option.

 

[Jaded-Fan]

I will say I do like that he can admit his mistakes and undo a move. The problem is he keeps committing the same mistake, undoing it, and committing it again with a different player.

How about learn from your mistakes rather than lose assets constantly correcting them?

 

[Empoleon8771]

I see. Well, I hope you're right, but there's no indication, in my eyes, that they went out and snagged him for the next two months as opposed to the duration of his contract.

There was no justification for this team to go out and trade for him either, to be fair. Justification isn't exactly this team's thing anymore.

See, that's where I don't agree. They wanted to get a tough guy because Letang got hurt fighting, and they had 2 D spots open up due to an injury. I totally see their justification for acquiring him. I think it's just a bad decision, but I can at least understand it. I don't see their justification for keeping him when everyone is healthy, mainly because of the cap and the rest of the roster. You're either going to have to trade a much better player or Johnson than Gudbranson to keep him or you can't keep him. I genuinely can't see this team making that decision, no matter how low I am on JR right now.

 

[DegenX]

Would that be an issue given he already played for Florida all those years?

I doubt there will be any issues. It's just different paperwork that has been done and approved if you're living and working here than if you're just occasionally working here. I think the process is expedited, but it's government stuff so it can still take a couple of days.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I just don't get it. He took a successful formula, threw it away, and replaced it with a formula that HIS SUCCESSFUL FORMULA beat twice in 2 years.

In what world is that sane?

Not only that, but other teams saw that formula was successful, and modeled themselves after it. Now they are some of the most successful teams in the league.

W.
T.
F.

I'm starting to think the easier answer is that JR didn't actually have a formula in mind, and he just fell into a fast and successful team based on the reclamation projects he acquired. It's easier to argue that he was incompetent and got lucky, which matches the rest of his GM tenure, than he actually had a formula in mind and abruptly changed course.

 

[Peat]

It does but that's a really, really, really, really dumb plan. Those guys are like leprechauns or unicorns. You don't just go fishing for them and expect to hit gold. You gotta draft and develop them yourself because no team is gonna give up a guy who is big, physical AND can play on a top line or in your top 4. He was able to overpay and get Reaves who would have maybe KIND of fit that mold. But that was as close as he was gonna get and he flipped him before the year was even out.

No plan.

Tbf, he can't just draft and develop them in the sort of time scale he's got (not that we've haven't had some hilarious results from him trying to do so (pray for Angello and Pavs)). And I'm not sure he can do nothing after Sid and Geno asked for protection post cup. So... I dunno, should he have traded for Evander Kane last year? Go all out to sign Ferland in FA this year? They seem to be the only other plans.

Not that I'm saying its a good plan mind - just that its a plan. But compared to the alternatives?

I'll say this for it - he got some value out of Reaves and got his pick back for Oleksiak. And he hasn't tried to force those ones too much - not working, out.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

I just don't get it. He took a successful formula, threw it away, and replaced it with a formula that HIS SUCCESSFUL FORMULA beat twice in 2 years.

In what world is that sane?

Not only that, but other teams saw that formula was successful, and modeled themselves after it. Now they are some of the most successful teams in the league.

W.
T.
F.

It really is mind boggling. Though much like what we saw with Shero/Disco.

I would even argue that the Penguins and their philosophy that won them B2B Cups changed the dynamic of the whole league. Scoring has absolutely been on the rise since. I'm well aware there are other factors but I can't help but think it plays into it.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

See, that's where I don't agree. They wanted to get a tough guy because Letang got hurt fighting, and they had 2 D spots open up due to an injury. I totally see their justification for acquiring him. I think it's just a bad decision, but I can at least understand it. I don't see their justification for keeping him when everyone is healthy, mainly because of the cap and the rest of the roster. You're either going to have to trade a much better player or Johnson than Gudbranson to keep him or you can't keep him. I genuinely can't see this team making that decision, no matter how low I am on JR right now.

I suppose that's where we disagree. I see the justification in acquiring a warm body to occupy a roster spot due to injury, for sure. This is a business and regardless of what we the fans think about the season following Dumo/Letang's injuries, JR's job is to win games and at least make the playoffs. He can't just pack it in and run with Prow and Trotman as his replacements for the remainder of a desperate and difficult push to the playoffs. But there were several players dealt that were cheaper, on expiring contracts, or simply better options than Gudbranson. It's the who, not the why, that I take issue with, I think. I don't think this was a "we need somebody" move, I think this was a "I want Gudbranson" move. That's what's so bewildering about it.

 

[Speaking Moistly]

My best guess -

He wants a tough guy or two that'll play. Not easy in an up tempo team that tends to make big slow turning bodies look not so good. So he's cycling through the tough guys until he can find the one that sticks, backing himself to regain asset value every time he's wrong.

Does this sound plausible?

I think the problem is he still looking for something he can’t get. He’s never going to get the result of stopping shit happening to his players and stars.

Reaves a 4th liner and top end enforcer was going to stop it. He didn’t.
Oleksiak would play more than a 4th liner and would be more likely to be on the ice with Crosby and Malkin. Wilson got him after JR honestly put the guy in a bad spot.
Johnson is big and tough or something. I’m sure other teams like seeing him on the ice and somehow Pettersson is more fighty than him.
Now Gudbranson will be another failure for that.
A blast from the past. Downie would be a deterrent because he was insanely and a nuclear option. Go to penalized a lot.


He doesn’t want tough guys that can play. He’s had those tough guys who can play, he’s only short trying a top 6 winger version since they brilliantly play Johnson so much and act like he can play. He wants someone to stop other players from being dirty against the Pens and that isn’t possible.

He better not f*** up the 1st looking for his very own Wilson. Wilson also doesn’t prevent anything.