The Curious Case of Mitch Marner discussion thread.

[Throw More Waffles]

Marner is rightfully getting slammed for not offensively producing in the playoffs.
He is a remarkable defensive forward, probably our best who was a plus player in the playoffs, and averaged an unmanagable almost 25 mins a game against Montreal.
That is too many minutes for a forward especially in a playoff series.

I think there are two simplistic accounts about this.

1. "You NEVER trade a young superstar." Then they bombard us with his stats that make him look good. All other nuance is ignored.

2. "I hate Marner, his attitude, and his contract and just want him gone." Then they bombard us with all the stats that make him look bad. All other nuance is ignored.

But there is a third less simplistic stance. It's more nuanced. It takes actual thought.

3. "The half the cap on 4 forwards experiment is unprecedented and is seeming to be VERY ineffective when it matters most. As such, the experiment should end. Matthews is Matthews. Tavares has nmc. Nylander has a much better bang for your buck contract. That, unfortunately, leaves Marner." There are a ton of what if and could of's. If that cap increased as much as projections, maybe it could have worked. If the team stayed more healthy maybe it could have worked.

But at the end of the day an unprecedented experiment was attempted by the three highest people in management who came here as rookies. It hasn't worked. Experiment over. No other team has more than ONE 11 million dollar player. Most teams have ZERO players making over 10 mil. I'm sorry, this is just not sustainable. We're still mocked by the rest of the league as we lose and lose and lose. "Hey leafs, just add another 11 million dollar forward lol". Let's stop being the joke of the entire league. Just this one time.

 

[ToneDog]

on which planet do a "not a goal scorer" command a 11 AAV in the NHL?

On the planet of spineless GMs.

 

[PromisedLand]

Marner is being misused by the current management team plain and simple.

There is a reason Marner's best playoff season came in years #1 and #2 when Lou Lam was his GM and Babcock was his coach, and his worst least productive years have been the last 2 under GM Dubas and coach Keefe.

The reason is Marner due to his size and lack of physicality needs to be sheltered in your lineup design particularly come playoff time.

Marner's early success was due to playing on the 3rd line with JVR and Bozak and then 2nd year with Marleau and Kadri, while the focus was on Matthews line come playoff time. But using a balanced roster and sheltering your smaller skilled player creates mismatches against the opposition, which a good coach can exploit.

Ever since Dubas took over and JT was signed Marner has played in a prominent role on the top 2 lines and going against the best D pairing and best defensive forwards. The last 2 playoffs Keefe has kept Marner pinned to Matthews hip and then the opposition gets a 2-1 shutdown deal with a strong D pairing and a shutdown Centre.

At $11 mil AAV Marner has to be able to drive his own line and play sheltered minutes but strategically used as secondary offense behind the Leafs top 2 lines Centered by Auston and JT. All 3 X $11 mil players should have their own lines in Leafs top 9 and be able to role them out strategically against the opposition to create mismatches and put Marner in a position to succeed and not fail like is currently happening. Very few teams are deep enough to matchup their 3rd line against Leafs 3rd line if it say had Nylander at C and Marner on his wing.

Hyman ------ Matthews ----XXXX
Robertson -- Tavares ------ XXXX
Mikheyev ----Nylander ---- Marner
Simmonds -- Spezza ------ XXXX

Yup!

Called it in the Game 7 GDT; but Keefe+Dubas are MORONS

GDT: - Round 1 - Game 7 | SERIES TIED | Leafs Vs Habs - May 31, 2021 @ 7:00 pm EST

 

[PromisedLand]

... not really how Kane and Kucherov get/got used but sure.

Kane + Kucherov do not wuss out. Marner is built like 8 year old child.

My 90+ yr old grandma with one hand tied behind her back would kick marner's ass

 

[Aashir]

Sheltering a guy making $11 million?

But at this point you just have to accept it. He is overpaid, but doesn’t mean he isn’t insanely useful in a certain situation. If he got away from Matthews and danault line, I think he would’ve done much better. Kessel got sheltered, no one had a problem with that. It’s marners fault for not being able to overcome danault, but it’s keefes fault for seeing it happen and saying it’s cool and fine.

 

[ShaneFalco]

on which planet do a "not a goal scorer" command a 11 AAV in the NHL?

Not a pp specialist
No shot
No physical.plsy
But hey he can PK!

 

[Gary Nylund]

Boston received Marco Sturm, Wayne Primeau and Brad Stuart for a Hall of Famer in JT who has gone on to score 1500+ points.
Then Boston finished last in their division the following 2 seasons.

I would have this quite high on the regret meter.

They went on to have a ton of playoff success including winning the cup. Joe's still looking for that cup.

 

[myleafs]

the fake glasses dubas?

I have no idea if this is true or not so where does this statement come from? I've seen posters saying the same but I haven't seen any proof of this, is there any?

 

[Jimmy Firecracker]

on which planet do a "not a goal scorer" command a 11 AAV in the NHL?

The planet where the GM negotiating that deal is a massive pushover.

 

[keonsbitterness]

I have no idea if this is true or not so where does this statement come from? I've seen posters saying the same but I haven't seen any proof of this, is there any?

Probably not true, but it is damn funny.

 

[saffronleaf]

Right!? The whole Leaf fans are so impatient, always complain, never happy etc. Seriously!? The team is a laughing stock. And this new flashy regular season version, perennial playoff chokers who will not put the effort in to win. Players have called the team out ffs it's not just the fans

lol I remember Ovechkin called the Leafs out before playing the Leafs in the regular season. And then scored on the Leafs and won the game IIRC. Good stuff

 

[saffronleaf]

DAILY REMINDER

• 11 AAV
• 0 goals in last 18 playoff games
• 0 PP goals in the entire regular season
• Out competed by 5'9 Gallagher and rookies (suzuki, caufield)
• refuses to take responsibility (I played well)
  
• Two games in a row had back breaking plays (Game 6: puck over the glass giving habs 5 on 3 and game 7 when game was tied gave away the puck in the offensive zone and habs scored to take 1-0 lead and momentum)
• 5 years in the league hasn't improved his shot or his physical attributes. Body of a 10 year kid and scared to take hits, go to corners
• Money is everything to the marner family. Paul and Mitch whine, bitch and moan about money every chance they get.
• Entitled brat that doesn't put the work in; takes significant portion of the cap and lays an egg in the playoffs
• Was found partying/vacationing after the playoffs instead of in the gym working out or working on his shot

There is ZERO justification why he should be Leaf and why Dubas should be a GM or Shanahan a President or Keefe a coach.

Shoot them all into the sun.

lmao I love this daily reminder

 

[PromisedLand]

I agree with that. But it's Marner's job to get him to 60. It sure would be nice if Marner had a legitimate second option to pass to.

there is no money left to get the so called "legitimate second option" because dubas spent it all

 

[Racer88]

DAILY REMINDER

• 11 AAV
• 0 goals in last 18 playoff games
• 0 PP goals in the entire regular season
• Out competed by 5'9 Gallagher and rookies (suzuki, caufield)
• refuses to take responsibility (I played well)
  
• Two games in a row had back breaking plays (Game 6: puck over the glass giving habs 5 on 3 and game 7 when game was tied gave away the puck in the offensive zone and habs scored to take 1-0 lead and momentum)
• 5 years in the league hasn't improved his shot or his physical attributes. Body of a 10 year kid and scared to take hits, go to corners
• Money is everything to the marner family. Paul and Mitch whine, bitch and moan about money every chance they get.
• Entitled brat that doesn't put the work in; takes significant portion of the cap and lays an egg in the playoffs
• Was found partying/vacationing after the playoffs instead of in the gym working out or working on his shot

There is ZERO justification why he should be Leaf and why Dubas should be a GM or Shanahan a President or Keefe a coach.

Shoot them all into the sun.

I can’t argue with anything you just posted

 

[saffronleaf]

Marner in the playoffs is like Kyle Wellwood

 

[PromisedLand]

I have no idea if this is true or not so where does this statement come from? I've seen posters saying the same but I haven't seen any proof of this, is there any?

This is all I could find

Former NHLer Says Leafs Will Regret Choosing Dubas Over Hunter.

If I am not mistaken they were ripping dubas either on tsn overdrive or tim and sid show for it too... i cant find the clip

 

[saffronleaf]

On the planet of spineless GMs.

Planet Mdubas

 

[leafsfan5]

Yup!

Called it in the Game 7 GDT; but Keefe+Dubas are MORONS

GDT: - Round 1 - Game 7 | SERIES TIED | Leafs Vs Habs - May 31, 2021 @ 7:00 pm EST

reading that GDT is so depressing......

lowest low we've ever hit

 

[666]

there is no money left to get the so called "legitimate second option" because dubas spent it all

I'm hoping Roberts can step up but if not I'd put Tavares on the left wing as it's the only way he can earn his $11M but that is for another discussion.

 

[saffronleaf]

But at this point you just have to accept it. He is overpaid, but doesn’t mean he isn’t insanely useful in a certain situation. If he got away from Matthews and danault line, I think he would’ve done much better. Kessel got sheltered, no one had a problem with that. It’s marners fault for not being able to overcome danault, but it’s keefes fault for seeing it happen and saying it’s cool and fine.

Nylander's line was doing really well and they weren't the main focus of danault and co. You'd think Marner could do something similar on the 3rd line playing sheltered.

 

[myleafs]

Probably not true, but it is damn funny.

meh, he is already getting bashed pretty good in here for valid concerns, making shit up about him to trash him even more just seems wrong to me. It's a deliberate attempt to skew reality and is dishonest. Opinions lose validity and interest to me when this tactic is used on anyone. But that's just me.

 

[myleafs]

This is all I could find

Former NHLer Says Leafs Will Regret Choosing Dubas Over Hunter.

If I am not mistaken they were ripping dubas either on tsn overdrive or tim and sid show for it too... i cant find the clip

Thanks for at least trying to back up those claims but all I got out of that was maybe he wears reading glasses? I do and they are not prescription. And how would Prust have any idea what kind of glasses Dubas wears? If he does in fact wear glasses when he doesnt need to and its only for looks then I guess that says something about his character? or does it? I don't know, it just seems like a silly thing to focus on when there is so much else hockey related to lambaste him about.

 

[PromisedLand]

Thanks for at least trying to back up those claims but all I got out of that was maybe he wears reading glasses? I do and they are not prescription. And how would Prust have any idea what kind of glasses Dubas wears? If he does in fact wear glasses when he doesnt need to and its only for looks then I guess that says something about his character? or does it? I don't know, it just seems like a silly thing to focus on when there is so much else hockey related to lambaste him about.

Nope it just tells you about the "character" of the person and how they are changing to be perceived and deceive people with their lies.

To each his/her/their own I guess

 

[myleafs]

Nope it just tells you about the "character" of the person and how they are changing to be perceived and deceive people with their lies.

To each his/her/their own I guess

Maybe it does and that could be an interesting discussion if true but unverified slander of someone taken as gospel is a slippery slope.

 

[myleafs]

Marner in the playoffs is like Kyle Wellwood[/
.

While Wellwood only had 20 pts in 40 playoff games compared to MM's 25pts in 32 games, his highest paid season was 1.6 mill and the rest of them 1.2 or lower. Comparing the two seems misguided