The Curious Case of Mitch Marner discussion thread.

[Bluelines]

Still better than us

Better coached for sure. Trotz is the best Coach in the league.

 

[Curt]

Get this loser off this team. No real leaf fan can cheer for a player this selfish.

 

[Bluelines]

Do playoff goals now

Why? Marner is not know to be a a goal scorer in the regular season or playoffs, most leaf fans know this.

 

[Bluelines]

Get this loser off this team. No real leaf fan can cheer for a player this selfish.

How is he selfish?

 

[daethfromabove1979]

Hey sport. I would agree with you but then we would both be wrong...

When the truth and uneducated opinions collide ... refer to the facts...

2019 to present

		GP	G	A	P
1	Connor McDavid	198	108	210	318
2	Leon Draisaitl	209	124	175	299
3	Patrick Kane	207	92	168	260
4	Nathan MacKinnon	199	96	161	257
5	Brad Marchand	202	93	163	256
6	Artemi Panarin	190	77	163	240
7	Jonathan Huberdeau	206	73	158	231
8	Mitchell Marner	196	62	166	228

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Can't wait till uneducated false hot takes are gone from this fan base ...

Hey I would argue he should have even more regular season points, he screws up constantly and misses so many opportunities. He's an absolute joke in the playoffs though. He can't play physical and is scared out there, can't shoot the puck either. He's not a winner, this isn't junior anymore, he's a straight up loser. I'm sure he'll do great in the regular season next year though yay. Don't know how you defend this guy with this contract.

 

[ShaneFalco]

It didn't even make one page before the pitch fork crowd started again...

You provoke it, and seem to enjoy it

 

[Antropovsky]

How is he selfish?

From the below Dubas statement after Mitch signed, it appears Dubas admits Marner wanted even more money but settled with 10.893. Unless I am reading the quote wrong.

Dubas quote from Marner agrees to six-year, $65.3 million contract with Maple Leafs :

We got a commitment from Mitch for six years and that should be as he enters his prime and then goes into his prime," Dubas said. "The way we evaluate things, and I know not everybody is going to agree, I think Mitch would want more and we'd want it less, but it's something we both agree on and can move ahead with. The way we evaluate things, we think all the contracts we signed, that the players with their production and output will match their level of pay, and we all hope they exceed it, which sets them up well for their next contract."

 

[Throw More Waffles]

LOL you see things more complicated eh? Did you see that in 2005 season, the season of that trade where they finished in 13th in the East or the year after in 2006 finished 13th out of 15 teams in the East? Before that trade 2003-4 Boston finished 2nd in the East. I can see how when you "think" you see things more complicated, you don't do the work or research to support your point, but hey maybe this is an opportunity for you to add facts to your tool chest... So to recap you want us to follow Boston's model where they go from one of the best teams in the league to cratering to the bottom? Awesome plan there sport.. sign me up!!!!

There is also precedent NOT to trade him. Washington lost in the 1st/2nd round many times with Ovechkin and Backstrom... how did they ever win by hanging on to their perennial failure forwards?

Thornton was crap in the playoffs so they moved him. Thornton continued being pretty crap in the playoffs. Seems they were right. Seemed pretty "smart" of them... especially when they started building a team around the right kind of players that lead them to a cup.

There is precedent either way.

No what there is NO precedent for? Half the cap on 4 forwards.

You would have been fine always losing in the first and 2nd rounds with players who score a lot of regular season points. Boston was more interested in a cup.

 

[Curt]

Why? Marner is not know to be a a goal scorer in the regular season or playoffs, most leaf fans know this.

Oh silly me to expect any goals in the playoff from a top 5 paid forward in the nhl. I guess the 11 million doesn’t include goals when it matters

 

[Antropovsky]

Why? Marner is not know to be a a goal scorer in the regular season or playoffs, most leaf fans know this.

Seemed like Montreal knew this too...

 

[Curt]

How is he selfish?

You might want to go look at how the negotiations went. How do you have so many posts on Mitch when you are so uninformed on the negotiations?


Big Paul marner vibes going on from you

 

[Mess]

I believe Mitch has it in him to perform in the playoffs, he showed it in junior when they won the Memorial Cup. But time is running out, he’ll likely only get one more chance here before the team explodes.

Marner is being misused by the current management team plain and simple.

There is a reason Marner's best playoff season came in years #1 and #2 when Lou Lam was his GM and Babcock was his coach, and his worst least productive years have been the last 2 under GM Dubas and coach Keefe.

The reason is Marner due to his size and lack of physicality needs to be sheltered in your lineup design particularly come playoff time.

Marner's early success was due to playing on the 3rd line with JVR and Bozak and then 2nd year with Marleau and Kadri, while the focus was on Matthews line come playoff time. But using a balanced roster and sheltering your smaller skilled player creates mismatches against the opposition, which a good coach can exploit.

Ever since Dubas took over and JT was signed Marner has played in a prominent role on the top 2 lines and going against the best D pairing and best defensive forwards. The last 2 playoffs Keefe has kept Marner pinned to Matthews hip and then the opposition gets a 2-1 shutdown deal with a strong D pairing and a shutdown Centre.

At $11 mil AAV Marner has to be able to drive his own line and play sheltered minutes but strategically used as secondary offense behind the Leafs top 2 lines Centered by Auston and JT. All 3 X $11 mil players should have their own lines in Leafs top 9 and be able to role them out strategically against the opposition to create mismatches and put Marner in a position to succeed and not fail like is currently happening. Very few teams are deep enough to matchup their 3rd line against Leafs 3rd line if it say had Nylander at C and Marner on his wing.

Hyman ------ Matthews ----XXXX
Robertson -- Tavares ------ XXXX
Mikheyev ----Nylander ---- Marner
Simmonds -- Spezza ------ XXXX

 

[IPS]

The reason is Marner due to his size and lack of physicality needs to be sheltered in your lineup design particularly come playoff time.

... not really how Kane and Kucherov get/got used but sure.

 

[Antropovsky]

Marner is being misused by the current management team plain and simple.

There is a reason Marner's best playoff season came in years #1 and #2 when Lou Lam was his GM and Babcock was his coach, and his worst least productive years have been the last 2 under GM Dubas and coach Keefe.

The reason is Marner due to his size and lack of physicality needs to be sheltered in your lineup design particularly come playoff time.

Marner's early success was due to playing on the 3rd line with JVR and Bozak and then 2nd year with Marleau and Kadri, while the focus was on Matthews line come playoff time. But using a balanced roster and sheltering your smaller skilled player creates mismatches against the opposition, which a good coach can exploit.

Ever since Dubas took over and JT was signed Marner has played in a prominent role on the top 2 lines and going against the best D pairing and best defensive forwards. The last 2 playoffs Keefe has kept Marner pinned to Matthews hip and then the opposition gets a 2-1 shutdown deal with a strong D pairing and a shutdown Centre.

At $11 mil AAV Marner has to be able to drive his own line and play sheltered minutes but strategically used as secondary offense behind the Leafs top 2 lines Centered by Auston and JT. All 3 X $11 mil players should have their own lines in Leafs top 9 and be able to role them out strategically against the opposition to create mismatches and put Marner in a position to succeed and not fail like is currently happening. Very few teams are deep enough to matchup their 3rd line against Leafs 3rd line if it say had Nylander at C and Marner on his wing.

Hyman ------ Matthews ----XXXX
Robertson -- Tavares ------ XXXX
Mikheyev ----Nylander ---- Marner
Simmonds -- Spezza ----- XXXX

But then there is Keefe sending out a line of all 3 - 11 million dollar players.

This is how I imagine things go:

Keefe: (yelling across the bench) "Send out The Super Line!!..muahhahhahahhaha!

Dubas: oh my - shanny, SHANNY!! Keefe is sending out The Super Line!!!

Keefe: GO SUPER LINE ! PLAY TO YOUR GOD GIVEN TALENTS!

 

[Stonehands1990]

You took my post as bitching... LOL... wow we got some overly sensitive little fellas on this forum.... safe space was apparently crossed?

As a rule of thumb stay clear of people who think every discussion is an argument aha

 

[Antropovsky]

As a rule of thumb stay clear of people who think every discussion is an argument aha

Arguments are healthy.... stay clear of people who think arguments are fights.

 

[Stonehands1990]

But then there is Keefe sending out a line of all 3 - 11 million dollar players.

This is how I imagine things go:

Keefe: (yelling across the bench) "Send out The Super Line!!..muahhahhahahhaha!

Dubas: oh my - shanny, SHANNY!! Keefe is sending out The Super Line!!!

Keefe: GO SUPER LINE ! PLAY TO YOUR GOD GIVEN TALENTS!

This is exactly what I’ve been preaching and many others. This is what I would run next season with somewhat current personnel

12-34-88 - still a #1 line
65-91-11 - Tavares excels with grinders
89-15-16 - sheltered scoring line, 16 feeding 89s big shot

 

[Thissiteisgarbage]

I'm sure we don't know the half of the demands made by Marner - for all we know he has been verbally guaranteed a spot with Matthews' line and on the PP.
Anyone think Marner and Marner Sr. wouldn't try something like that??
Could help to explain Keefe's obviously insane lack of movement in the playoffs at least.

 

[Antropovsky]

This is exactly what I’ve been preaching and many others. This is what I would run next season with somewhat current personnel

12-34-88 - still a #1 line
65-91-11 - Tavares excels with grinders
89-15-16 - sheltered scoring line, 16 feeding 89s big shot

Fact is we shouldn't have to find a magical formula for Mitch to find success... and be certainly shouldn't have to try to find easier matchups for him. Same goes for Matthews, Tavares or anyone in the league making more than 8 million I'm sure.

 

[keonsbitterness]

I absolutely want to trade him in a deal that makes sense.

Now, in a world where: nobody is offering us anything good, or Dubas has decided not to trade him...

Can we picture an outcome where we are successful? I think I can envision Mitch scoring 2-3 goals in a playoff series...But I can't picture them winning the series lol. Shop Mitch Dubas, we're broke as a joke and can't fill 95% of a roster with 50% of our available cash.

And therein lies the problem.

How many teams would offer what the Leafs consider fair value for Marner and satisfy the cap considerations for both teams? That's gotta be very few teams.

 

[Mess]

But then there is Keefe sending out a line of all 3 - 11 million dollar players.

This is how I imagine things go:

Keefe: (yelling across the bench) "Send out The Super Line!!..muahhahhahahhaha!

Dubas: oh my - shanny, SHANNY!! Keefe is sending out The Super Line!!!

Keefe: GO SUPER LINE ! PLAY TO YOUR GOD GIVEN TALENTS!

"Never put all your eggs in one basket"

This is a wise piece of advice which means that one should not concentrate all efforts and resources in one area as one could lose everything in the event that, that thing fails or does not come to fruition.

It plays right into the hand of the opposition coach as he plays his top D pairing and best shutdown line against them as well a strong defensive system and you nullify the Leafs greatest assets all at the same time. Phillip Danault & Shea Weber and Carey Price was all that was needed to turn Leafs greatest strength into its greatest weakness by holding Leafs top line to 2 ES goals in 7 game series. Then allow your secondary scoring to create mismatches against the rest of Leafs roster made of bargain bin spare parts particularly after you physically knocked JT out to of series.

You would have hoped Keefe would have learned that lesson against CBJ the previous year when again Boone Jenner & Jones/Werenski and goalie shutout the Leafs in the 1st, last and almost a 3rd game.Where the leagues 3rd highest scoring team was smothered and choked out by the leagues 3rd lowest scoring team in 5 games.

Marner is so easy to defend because he plays a soft game on the perimeter, has a muffin for a shot that no goalie fears from a distance so you just have to take away his passing options as a pass first player and leave him alone on the outside were he is harmless, and then intimidate him physically from time to time and he becomes less and less involved in the outcome of the game.

A deep roster where you can role all 4 lines and have them serve a purpose and be able to create mismatches and exploit them is the key to playoff success.

 

[keonsbitterness]

The reason is Marner due to his size and lack of physicality needs to be sheltered in your lineup design particularly come playoff time.

Sheltering a guy making $11 million?

 

[Willchel Marlynder]

4th leading point generator... garbage, trade him, spoiled brat, bench him, he's been garbage since his new contract.

Rocket Richard winner, garbage, no killer instinct, not a face puncher

Goalie with the 2nd best stats in last years play-ins/playoffs... he is the root of all our problems in the playins/ playoffs...

You act like our fan base is the most rationale mob.

 

[666]

snip

Hyman ------ Matthews ----XXXX
Robertson -- Tavares ------ XXXX
Mikheyev ----Nylander ---- Marner
Simmonds -- Spezza ------ XXXX

Wow, just wow. You REALLY think that putting Hyman on the top line WITHOUT Marner is going to make things better? The same Zack "Hands" Hyman who got one single point in the playoffs playing with two superstars? Maybe, just maybe, putting a 3-4th liner with absolutely zero IQ or hands on the top line is a big part of the reason for it's failure. We can be very thankful that Hands will not be on this team next season.

 

[Antropovsky]

Wow, just wow. You REALLY think that putting Hyman on the top line WITHOUT Marner is going to make things better? The same Zack "Hands" Hyman who got one single point in the playoffs playing with two superstars? Maybe, just maybe, putting a 3-4th liner with absolutely zero IQ or hands on the top line is a big part of the reason for it's failure. We can be very thankful that Hands will not be on this team next season.

Hyman has 2 goals and 4 points in his past 12 post season games. Meanwhile Marner has 8 assists.

To be honest it seems your chances of success are about the same for both players... maybe even more for Hyman considering he actually MIGHT score a goal.