The Curious Case of Mitch Marner discussion thread.

[keonsbitterness]

"I like big butts and I cannot lie."
-Mike Babcock-

 

[57 Years No Cup]

This quacked me up...

 

[Confucius]

Well Matthews wanted 14M. Maybe that would have been enough motivation to actually score in series clinching games.


Front loading is still a huge benefit to the players. A dollar today is worth more than a dollar tomorrow. How these guys got these crazy front loaded deals with NMC's included yet still got these insane dollar value deals is beyond belief. I legit don't know how Dubas had sign off to do this. Just baffling

and in Mathews case ony give up 1 year of U F A status. Unbelievable...

 

[Dreakmur]

Fair for lesser parts. Not franchise players

Less money is valuable at any level of player.

 

[Stonehands1990]

Less money is valuable at any level of player.

I think you missed my original point. You SHOULD front loading to get a lower AAV

it’s a tool just like NMC

 

[myleafs]

For some reason my response ended up in the body of your text……

You can edit it after the fact and fix it...just look at your response post and it says edit right on it.

 

[ToneDog]

I think you missed my original point. You SHOULD front loading to get a lower AAV

it’s a tool just like NMC

The only tool is Dubas.

 

[Racer88]

You can edit it after the fact and fix it...just look at your response post and it says edit right on it.

Hey, thx

 

[Throw More Waffles]

Front-loading contracts makes them more valuable when traded later.

So you’re saying Dubas signed the core 3 with the intention of trading them in a couple years before their nmc’s kick in?
I mean come on…

 

[cookie]

Anybody defending him to the death I would think but I believe Mitch did for sure

You have a coach that likes to play him 25 minutes a night, glued to the team's top talent, so there's someone who's "happy" with Marner's performance. Some blame should go to Matthews but Marner's numbers absolutely tanked without his buddy beside him - a competent coach should notice that. If the second line seems to be scoring without Tavares, a competent coach wouldn't limit the driving force to 17 minutes a night.

I think part of Marner's poor performance is part and parcel of how over-relied upon he was by a lazy coach that didn't have the foresight to prepare for the playoffs. Keefe will mar Dubas's shrewd moves and sidestep the kind of criticism that was levied Babcock's way.

If Campbell didn't have the season he did, the Leafs' season would have turned out much more differently.

 

[613Leafer]

So you’re saying Dubas signed the core 3 with the intention of trading them in a couple years before their nmc’s kick in?
I mean come on…

It makes sense if the line of thinking was... I'm getting bent over in these negotiations, so I'll give myself a few years to try to make it work with this overpaid core, but if it doesn't work out, at least with the declining salary I should be able to sell them for top dollar before the NMCs kick in and before they hit free agency.

Though I agree, I don't think Dubas was really thinking that. I think he was just giving them whatever they wanted, and not really thinking about much at all.

 

[egd27]

Unless they have some kind of stat that zero's in who is shooting...its useless. How can a shot by Engvall be equal to the same shot placement as Matthews? It's just stupid.

Not to mention the fact that who or what ever determines an expected goal, never actually "sees" the shot.

 

[Racer88]

Not to mention the fact that who or what ever determines an expected goal, never actually "sees" the shot.

Ya, expected goals is the most pure nonsense stat I have ever heard.
Just like high danger shots. 4 point blank shots right into the goalies crest are not what I would consider high danger especially if they are taken bu Marner and his muffin shot

 

[egd27]

Ya, expected goals is the most pure nonsense stat I have ever heard.
Just like high danger shots. 4 point blank shots right into the goalies crest are not what I would consider high danger especially if they are taken bu Marner and his muffin shot

or a Mikheyev breakaway

 

[Racer88]

or a Mikheyev breakaway

Yup, there’s always that……..lol

 

[Dreakmur]

So you’re saying Dubas signed the core 3 with the intention of trading them in a couple years before their nmc’s kick in?
I mean come on…

No, I didn’t say anything like that.

 

[hobarth]

I don't get this Marner hate, he's a great player and has played insanely well during the regular season and is TO's top scoring playoff scorer since he's become a Leaf, yes TO gets more offense from Marner than Matthews during the last 5 playoffs/qualifiers.

There are many essential players like Marner on Cup winning teams and when conditions/chemistry is right TO will need him to win the Cup.

TO lost to Mtl after having them down 3 to 1 then it was like Mtl woke up, chemistry kicked in, and it was a different story, Price was Price and the rest of their team thrived on his leadership skill. It seems that TO didn't have enough talent or whatever to win but 2 of those final 3 losses were in overtime and except for Drouin Mtl was healthy. Let's not forget TO had no JT, no Muzzin, Simmonds played with a broken thumb, Foligno constantly hurting, Nash nowhere near the Nash we saw in the qualifier last year and Hy, who returned from injury for the playoffs, wasn't Hy until the final game. We are also forgetting that Mtl went on to play in the finals which is/should be an indication of the quality of their team during these playoffs.

There are other teams like Colorado which struggles in the playoffs, they might win a round here and there but the quality of their talent equals TO's. They don't have Boston, Wash. and TB to go thru to advance in the playoffs. Those 3 teams are talented and much older and experienced than TO and like TO they had growing pains when their stars were younger. TO's time will come, that TO isn't succeeding in the playoffs is probably mostly a problem that time and experience will remedy.

I think we've seen a lot of progress from TO this year, they looked like a team that was worthy of a playoff run, no long inexplicable losing streaks like in the past which can probably be attributed to the many vets TO had in the lineup. TO looked like it should've won most nights instead of being outplayed more frequently than not.

This was a very good and consistent team that simply needs time to grow into it's potential.

Back to Marner, the one player that I would say is similar to him is Backstrom from Wash., an overall great player that isn't physical but needed time to figure out how to be productive in the playoffs, it took him and Ovie to be in their 30's before they won the Cup and if you removed either from their team I doubt Wash. would've won. Marner and Backstrom might not appear to be the right types of players to be essential to Cup winners but they are, so I'm just hoping it won't take Marner and Matthews 6/7 more years before TO wins the Cup.

 

[Aashir]

I don't get this Marner hate, he's a great player and has played insanely well during the regular season and is TO's top scoring playoff scorer since he's become a Leaf, yes TO gets more offense from Marner than Matthews during the last 5 playoffs/qualifiers.

There are many essential players like Marner on Cup winning teams and when conditions/chemistry is right TO will need him to win the Cup.

TO lost to Mtl after having them down 3 to 1 then it was like Mtl woke up, chemistry kicked in, and it was a different story, Price was Price and the rest of their team thrived on his leadership skill. It seems that TO didn't have enough talent or whatever to win but 2 of those final 3 losses were in overtime and except for Drouin Mtl was healthy. Let's not forget TO had no JT, no Muzzin, Simmonds played with a broken thumb, Foligno constantly hurting, Nash nowhere near the Nash we saw in the qualifier last year and Hy, who returned from injury for the playoffs, wasn't Hy until the final game. We are also forgetting that Mtl went on to play in the finals which is/should be an indication of the quality of their team during these playoffs.

There are other teams like Colorado which struggles in the playoffs, they might win a round here and there but the quality of their talent equals TO's. They don't have Boston, Wash. and TB to go thru to advance in the playoffs. Those 3 teams are talented and much older and experienced than TO and like TO they had growing pains when their stars were younger. TO's time will come, that TO isn't succeeding in the playoffs is probably mostly a problem that time and experience will remedy.

I think we've seen a lot of progress from TO this year, they looked like a team that was worthy of a playoff run, no long inexplicable losing streaks like in the past which can probably be attributed to the many vets TO had in the lineup. TO looked like it should've won most nights instead of being outplayed more frequently than not.

This was a very good and consistent team that simply needs time to grow into it's potential.

Back to Marner, the one player that I would say is similar to him is Backstrom from Wash., an overall great player that isn't physical but needed time to figure out how to be productive in the playoffs, it took him and Ovie to be in their 30's before they won the Cup and if you removed either from their team I doubt Wash. would've won. Marner and Backstrom might not appear to be the right types of players to be essential to Cup winners but they are, so I'm just hoping it won't take Marner and Matthews 6/7 more years before TO wins the Cup.

We are sitting here waiting for a round to be won. Hell we want 1 goal in the playoffs from this guy. We don’t have the time ovi and the caps had, they were given 10 year contracts which are now illegal, we don’t know if Matthews and nylander are Leafs in 3 years. A lot to be worried about if next year is the same as always

 

[mikeyz]

I don't get this Marner hate, he's a great player and has played insanely well during the regular season and is TO's top scoring playoff scorer since he's become a Leaf, yes TO gets more offense from Marner than Matthews during the last 5 playoffs/qualifiers.

There are many essential players like Marner on Cup winning teams and when conditions/chemistry is right TO will need him to win the Cup.

TO lost to Mtl after having them down 3 to 1 then it was like Mtl woke up, chemistry kicked in, and it was a different story, Price was Price and the rest of their team thrived on his leadership skill. It seems that TO didn't have enough talent or whatever to win but 2 of those final 3 losses were in overtime and except for Drouin Mtl was healthy. Let's not forget TO had no JT, no Muzzin, Simmonds played with a broken thumb, Foligno constantly hurting, Nash nowhere near the Nash we saw in the qualifier last year and Hy, who returned from injury for the playoffs, wasn't Hy until the final game. We are also forgetting that Mtl went on to play in the finals which is/should be an indication of the quality of their team during these playoffs.

There are other teams like Colorado which struggles in the playoffs, they might win a round here and there but the quality of their talent equals TO's. They don't have Boston, Wash. and TB to go thru to advance in the playoffs. Those 3 teams are talented and much older and experienced than TO and like TO they had growing pains when their stars were younger. TO's time will come, that TO isn't succeeding in the playoffs is probably mostly a problem that time and experience will remedy.

I think we've seen a lot of progress from TO this year, they looked like a team that was worthy of a playoff run, no long inexplicable losing streaks like in the past which can probably be attributed to the many vets TO had in the lineup. TO looked like it should've won most nights instead of being outplayed more frequently than not.

This was a very good and consistent team that simply needs time to grow into it's potential.

Back to Marner, the one player that I would say is similar to him is Backstrom from Wash., an overall great player that isn't physical but needed time to figure out how to be productive in the playoffs, it took him and Ovie to be in their 30's before they won the Cup and if you removed either from their team I doubt Wash. would've won. Marner and Backstrom might not appear to be the right types of players to be essential to Cup winners but they are, so I'm just hoping it won't take Marner and Matthews 6/7 more years before TO wins the Cup.

You haven’t watched any playoff games in the last 3 years have you?

 

[HarryLime]

Marner wouldn't be criticized nearly as badly if his play on ice was the only issue. You can keep posting his regular season point totals and using other players as examples to be patient but there are as many players that didn't turn it around. For Marner, he literally looks like a little boy out there in the last 3 playoff series. I don't see how that's gonna change and his contract has the team crippled.

 

[Cleetus]

or a Mikheyev breakaway

leafs have a breakaway!!! "I look up excited" its Mikheyev " I look down and shake my head"

 

[egd27]

leafs have a breakaway!!! "I look up excited" its Mikheyev " I look down and shake my head"

 

[hullsy47]

So you’re saying Dubas signed the core 3 with the intention of trading them in a couple years before their nmc’s kick in?
I mean come on…

Dubas is in love with his core
Poor sap will be out of hockey while these guys are going to UFC fights and Bieber concerts

 

[tmlfan98]

Some people here really believe others want Marner gone just for the sake of it. I guarantee if anyone else on the team had more puck over glass penalties than even strength goals in the playoffs I would want them gone regardless of what their name is lol. Marner just doesn't have what it takes to be successful in the NHL playoffs. Junior playoffs was his peak.

 

[ToneDog]

Some people here really believe others want Marner gone just for the sake of it. I guarantee if anyone else on the team had more puck over glass penalties than even strength goals in the playoffs I would want them gone regardless of what their name is lol. Marner just doesn't have what it takes to be successful in the NHL playoffs. Junior playoffs was his peak.

One could argue that those over the glass penalties were as stupid as Kadri's suspensions. Chicken sh1t $11m player avoiding contact. At least Kadri, a player who lives on the edge, showed some heart and backbone.