The core players are showing their true colors again

[yubbers]

Dubas assembled Boyz II Men. Well that's what Mitch thinks.

Hopefully, they have to serenade Dubas with 'End of the Road' soon

 

[Nineteen67]

No, no, you can keep losing people and picks and just grab projects and hope it works out.

I said years ago, the only way this Dubas top heavy model works is if you have a steady influx of cheap young drafted players coming in. Last week I read it’s been years since we’ve added a homegrown bottom six player. We just keep letting guys walk and hope we can replace them. A Bunting a great pickup, but so many failures too, it always seems we are scrambling to round out our lineup, to makeup for the lack of cheap kids coming in.

I’m not sure what was worse, not having draft picks in middle of a rebuild, or not knowing they were in the middle of a rebuild.

 

[PromisedLand]

The season is definitely a referendum on both the front office as well as the core too.

If it flops, the front office will end up paying the price for making the bets they did and rightfully so.

But fair to say that also doesn't give the core a free pass. Guys like Matthews and Marner have now had multiple playoffs heading into games 6/7 to carry the team on their back to the next round, and haven't been able to get the job done. If the front office ends up getting removed, there
likely needs to be substantial changes to the core, and NOT necessarily the typical "trade Nylander for a D man" stuff we see here usually.

Obviously I'd still take as a preference deep playoff success this time around to shut us all up.

Dubas takes the lion's share of the blame

- contracts
- cap space
- cap allocation
- team structure
- team culture

blame the GM first before blaming the players. not saying dont blame the players; but Dubas is the major reason for all the failures

 

[rocketman588]

I vaguely remember Dubas going into detail on the positive impact of a mid-season coaching change from an analytic perspective years back, I don't think Keefe is as safe as people think under Dubas.

I mean he did that in part to justify the hire. We we're still 8th by the end of the season and looked like shit vs cbj anyways.

Not to mention the bombing of Babs that went on through the media after. Dude basically used the media to ruin the guy and justify hiring his friend

 

[PromisedLand]

If this team had any balls they would have rallied around Kadri and gave him a chance at redemption in later rounds. Instead he was scapegoated by management.

This!

Kadri had to go, all he did was hurt the Leafs, too bad he wasn't the player he is now a few years ago. He was given ample opportunity to succeed in Toronto, but failed.

this is #fakenews

 

[PromisedLand]

Dubas made me stop watching the Leafs for a couple years now. Ask me if I'd not care about the Leafs 5 years ago and I'd laugh at you. He's insufferable. Montreal series was the final straw. ANd they kept their jobs. LOL

Yup. Dubas has turned me off this team too. I haven't watched much this year either.

I have caught may be 2 games. I'll try to watch tonight....

 

[sxvnert]

Thats been the case for the last six years.

so who here wants to give matthews 14 mil per next contract? Lol

Keep Matthews and Marner as the top pairing, surrounded by an entirely new roster.

 

[HoweHullOrr]

No, no, you can keep losing people and picks and just grab projects and hope it works out.

I said years ago, the only way this Dubas top heavy model works is if you have a steady influx of cheap young drafted players coming in. Last week I read it’s been years since we’ve added a homegrown bottom six player. We just keep letting guys walk and hope we can replace them. A Bunting a great pickup, but so many failures too, it always seems we are scrambling to round out our lineup, to makeup for the lack of cheap kids coming in.

Ya, we were trading picks away early in the rebuild (2016-17). Why was this necessary or smart so early in the rebuild? We still needed young defenders, etc. and the fans were behind & supported the idea of a rebuild. Remember the old "there will be pain" messages from Shanny. Same old, same old - no patience & "Buy versus Build"!

Then it was a series of blunders from there - adding a $11 m forward when we needed defense, bad contract signings (TERM) with Matthews & Marner, thinking Barrie was going to solve our blueline problems, etc.

And over the last few years because we are capped out, we rearrange the deck chairs by tinkering around with bottom of the roster players like that is somehow supposed to actually accomplish something. A skillful GM & President has a plan that accommodates the future and the need to keep drafting good young prospects so that the ELCs fill roster holes when they graduate.

Pathetic. Fire all of Shanny, Keefe & Dubas if we don't win at least 2 rounds this year. Make sure all three are gone. I've said it before, Shanny is a brown nosing imposter.

 

[usernamezrhardtodo]

Ya, we were trading picks away early in the rebuild (2016-17). Why was this necessary or smart so early in the rebuild? We still needed young defenders, etc. and the fans were behind & supported the idea of a rebuild. Remember the old "there will be pain" messages from Shanny. Same old, same old - no patience & "Buy versus Build"!

Then it was a series of blunders from there - adding a $11 m forward when we needed defense, bad contract signings (TERM) with Matthews & Marner, thinking Barrie was going to solve our blueline problems, etc.

And over the last few years because we are capped out, we rearrange the deck chairs by tinkering around with bottom of the roster players like that is somehow supposed to actually accomplish something. A skillful GM & President has a plan that accommodates the future and the need to keep drafting good young prospects so that the ELCs fill roster holes when they graduate.

Pathetic. Fire all of Shanny, Keefe & Dubas if we don't win at least 2 rounds this year. Make sure all three are gone. I've said it before, Shanny is a brown nosing imposter.

Watching the Prime series really opened my eyes. It seems like they are just throwing shit against the wall and hoping it will stick more than they are planning all of this out. It just seemed so depressing to witness the behind the scenes and see Keefe pleading with players all season long. That is the issue IMO. Stop pleading and start demanding...its really simple.

 

[34]

Yup. Dubas has turned me off this team too. I haven't watched much this year either.

I have caught may be 2 games. I'll try to watch tonight....

I have also lost interest in the team. Once Matthews walks/traded I am done.

 

[Pebble live]

I have also lost interest in the team. Once Matthews walks/traded I am done.

I started watching the Rangers about 3.5 years ago when it became obvious the direction Dubas was taking this team and Rangers were in rebuild mode. Watching the Rangers closely and comparing how they've handled their rebuild compared to the leafs makes it apparent Toronto management has no idea what they're doing.

 

[PromisedLand]

Watching the Prime series really opened my eyes. It seems like they are just throwing shit against the wall and hoping it will stick more than they are planning all of this out. It just seemed so depressing to witness the behind the scenes and see Keefe pleading with players all season long. That is the issue IMO. Stop pleading and start demanding...its really simple.

LMAO really? I didn't watch it that series. was keefe really pleading? Yikes!

 

[BrannigansLaw]

Thats been the case for the last six years.


Keep Matthews and Marner as the top pairing, surrounded by an entirely new roster.

I’d rather keep Matthews and Nylander. Blow the rest of it sky high.

 

[usernamezrhardtodo]

LMAO really? I didn't watch it that series. was keefe really pleading? Yikes!

Ya...it was when they were going through a bit of a slump and they had a big meeting of the "Leadership" group and Jumbo told Keefe to "relax bro" and that's how the season ended up...with the whole team relaxing at the cottage instead of playing in the 2nd round.

 

[PromisedLand]

Ya...it was when they were going through a bit of a slump and they had a big meeting of the "Leadership" group and Jumbo told Keefe to "relax bro" and that's how the season ended up...with the whole team relaxing at the cottage instead of playing in the 2nd round.

Oh man.....

 

[Notsince67]

Nice back check by Matthews on the 1st goal, Couture was behind him, outskated him to the other end and scores. Then with Nylander on the OT goal, Nylander watches himself turn the puck over and doesnt move, Karlsson was behind him and outskated him and scored. This isnt coach related. If i can see that the Leafs have 4 bottom pairing dmen on the squad, why wouldnt the top guys feel they have no chance to win this year in the playoffs based on what Dubas has built.

It kind of is coach related. There is an awful lot of cheating on defense going on lately and it shouldn't be tolerated. The leafs have a softness in defense for sure but the dmen shouldn't be trying high risk stretch passes to move the puck up. Keefe has to clamp down on that crap. Where are the forwards?
Dmen are trying to be heros in the ozone....get it to stop.

 

[ULF_55]

He said unfortunately our team is all white? My Bullshit meter is gong off..

He said it. It was in support of BLM.
It wasn't said in a disparaging manner.

This is such a political arena, and even on Bill Maher you'll see contradictory statement by spokespeople of all colours.

I'd suggest we end this discussion as it can't ever end up in a good place on a Hockey Board.

 

[killer1980]

Nothing will happen till:

 

[ULF_55]

Nothing will happen till:

Not just at the management level.

Hopefully, they are not already in entitlement mode.

Muskoka 5 got roasted but at least they had traveled beyond the first round.

 

[Stamkos4life]

Dubas takes the lion's share of the blame

- contracts
- cap space
- cap allocation
- team structure
- team culture

blame the GM first before blaming the players. not saying dont blame the players; but Dubas is the major reason for all the failures

It's amazing how often the dubas fan boys will tell us it's the players fault when the gm is literally responsible for said players being on the team.

I mean, if the players can't get it done, clearly the person in charge hasn't assembled the proper team.

Yet they just continue making excuses for dubas. I've never seen anything like thise before.

 

[mikeyz]

The Kadri trade will still go down as one of Dubas worst trades. Don't care that he got suspended twice it was clear that he had more heart the 99% of the roster and he scored 30 goals. we rail roaded out of town for "Swiss Army Knife" Kerfoot and Barrie..... Swap Kadri for anyone on the team not named Matthews (and if we're talking Playoffs then yes even Matthews) and the team gets better.

I am going to have to wash my mouth out with soap after this post, because anybody who knows me on here knows that I am probably the president of the “Fire Dubas” club on these boards and I hate defending him in any way. Lol.

But, I really cannot blame Dubas for that Kadri trade if I am being honest. At the time, it HAD to be done. Kadri was increasingly becoming a determent to the team with him coming off getting suspended in the playoffs for the 2nd year in a row. You can’t have a guy like that on your team, no matter how much heart and grit he has. Plus, didn’t he get suspended in the playoffs in Colorado as well the following year or the year after?

So, as much as I can’t stand Dubas and as bad as that return for Kadri in the trade was, this is one of the very few things that I can’t fault him for.

It's amazing how often the dubas fan boys will tell us it's the players fault when the gm is literally responsible for said players being on the team.

I mean, if the players can't get it done, clearly the person in charge hasn't assembled the proper team.

Yet they just continue making excuses for dubas. I've never seen anything like thise before.

Lol. Inject this post into my veins after my most recent one.

 

[ShaneFalco]

Dubas has put together a very good pond hockey team

I am going to have to wash my mouth out with soap after this post, because anybody who knows me on here knows that I am probably the president of the “Fire Dubas” club on these boards and I hate defending him in any way. Lol.

But, I really cannot blame Dubas for that Kadri trade if I am being honest. At the time, it HAD to be done. Kadri was increasingly becoming a determent to the team with him coming off getting suspended in the playoffs for the 2nd year in a row. You can’t have a guy like that on your team, no matter how much heart and grit he has. Plus, didn’t he get suspended in the playoffs in Colorado as well the following year or the year after?

So, as much as I can’t stand Dubas and as bad as that return for Kadri in the trade was, this is one of the very few things that I can’t fault him for.


Lol. Inject this post into my veins after my most recent one.

Yeah the return was bad but I agree Kadri had to go

 

[Menzinger]

Dubas takes the lion's share of the blame

- contracts
- cap space
- cap allocation
- team structure
- team culture

blame the GM first before blaming the players. not saying dont blame the players; but Dubas is the major reason for all the failures

At the end of the day for me, if things don't work out it doesn't particularly matter which one deserves more of the blame when they're both obviously at fault. Both will require significant changes made if it comes down to it. The front office will have made.the wrong bets and will need to go - as will many of the players they made those bets on.

I don't see it as a one or the other situation.

 

[mikeyz]

Dubas has put together a very good pond hockey team


Yeah the return was bad but I agree Kadri had to go

I mean, can you imagine if Dubas actually decided to give Kadri a 3rd chance and as a result, we missed out on JT and he went to San Jose?? Now, remember, JT did have a good 1st year in that deal and Kadri did get suspended AGAIN in the playoffs with Colorado before finally getting his shit together. Can you imagine the vitriol that would have been spewed Dubas and Shanny’s way in the short term has that happened??

 

[DraftSchmaft]

My allegiance is cracking when it comes to marner. I never understood why everyone is so hell bent picking on Nylander, when marner shows the least heart out of the 4. Nylander still crashed the net a good 5 times before he pissed everyone off. Marner makes 2 blocks in 2017 on Pasta and suddenly nobody can question his work ethic in the playoffs even to this day because he hides behind his xGF.