The core players are showing their true colors again

[CDN24]

It should’ve been Simmonds and Perry, not Simmonds and Thornton. The “old skill guy” position was already filled by Spezza. Having an agitator in Perry and muscle in Simmonds would’ve been a much better combo. Also with the butterfly effect Perry wouldn’t have been on Montreal and knocked out JT.

Plus Perry can still play - way more in the tank than many (myself included) thought. since beginning of that season 2021, He has 30G and 65 total points in 139 regular season games and 10G and 21 points in 45 playoff games all at a minimal cap hit $1M or less.

 

[Arthur Morgan]

Yeah, they got poor value. But that wasn't the point. They determined he didn't have a winners attitude. They won the cup a few years later, he never did. To Boston, no player is bigger than the team. They must all literally laugh out loud when the see Dubas and co. groveling at Matthews feet.

I agree with that part but still that was really bad and pretty sure there was next to nothing left from the Jumbo Joe trade when they won.
Boston also moved on from Seguin and Hamilton, u might be right no player is bigger then the team but that doesnt mean we should sell low on all our players.
Im sure if u added Thornton to that lineup that won that year and they could have even done it earlier or won more than 1 cup. at the end of the day it was a piss poor decision
SJ also went on some nice runs and Thornton wasn't just some passenger for them, it's a big tough league and not all players win by the end of their careers

 

[Enniskillen]

Matthews is a new Marleau. Feisty but wins shit.

 

[ShaneFalco]

Dubas has cultivated an environment where losing is not only accepted, it's rewarded. Where "caring deeply" in the end of season interviews he has with players is more important than showing it on the ice. Where he hires his buddy instead of interviewing others
Too loyal, too set on his ways

 

[mapleleaf979]

Nice back check by Matthews on the 1st goal, Couture was behind him, outskated him to the other end and scores. Then with Nylander on the OT goal, Nylander watches himself turn the puck over and doesnt move, Karlsson was behind him and outskated him and scored. This isnt coach related. If i can see that the Leafs have 4 bottom pairing dmen on the squad, why wouldnt the top guys feel they have no chance to win this year in the playoffs based on what Dubas has built.

 

[leafan11]

CJ said today everything is on the table this year. If they don't respond by mid November, the coaching question gets asked and picks up steam.
I said yesterday this isn't a coaching problem. It's a deeper problem. However one reason I could support a change is because these players have been coddled, so bring in Trotz who will make them uncomfortable

The way he answered the question made it seem like Dubas could be gone too…

 

[ShaneFalco]

The way he answered the question made it seem like Dubas could be gone too…

why keep either of them if the team is still struggling and they won't be back next year? Do you want Dubas making deadline trades ?

 

[mapleleaf979]

The Leafs play like they dont care. Marner is one of the only guys, noticeable, engaged and seems like he wants to make a difference. Matthews is not engaged this year, he is ripping shots from the blueline like he doesnt care, missing the net wildly etc...its kind of odd. Nylander didnt show up last night at all, invisible. Reilly has very average hockey sense, they need a defenseman better than him to move anywhere in the playoffs. Reilly is a 2-3 dman on a good team. They have one defenseman who can defend, Brodie who looks old this year, Giordano is on the decline, Holl is embarassing....Dubas did this.

 

[Willchel Marlynder]

It’s becoming painfully clear that the make up of this core group does not work.
not much we can do about it this year but both Marner and Matthews needs to be traded for more competitive skilled guys. Before anyone jumps on me look at Calgary. They lost some of thier stars but went out and replaced them and are better then before.
also consider that there are some successful great teams out there and none of them have Matthews, Marner , Tavares or Willy. It can be done without those 4 if thier value is spent wisely on thier replacements

The Kadri trade will still go down as one of Dubas worst trades. Don't care that he got suspended twice it was clear that he had more heart the 99% of the roster and he scored 30 goals. we rail roaded out of town for "Swiss Army Knife" Kerfoot and Barrie..... Swap Kadri for anyone on the team not named Matthews (and if we're talking Playoffs then yes even Matthews) and the team gets better.

 

[keonsbitterness]

So tests are not being passed? So hard to keep up.

My high school years in a nutshell.

 

[Willchel Marlynder]

That's a lot of money wrapped up in that core and only 1 guy (JT) in it is currently playing at even 1 PPG level,

Meanwhile, in Boston, all of Pasta, Marchand, Bergeron, and Krejci are all at 1 PPG or better....
Pasta is almost at 2 PPG and Marchand is is at 3 PPG (only played one game, but scored 2 G and 1 A)

How much money is going to Toronto's top 4 guys compared to what Boston is paying their top 4 guys?
Boston top 4 are making a combined $16.3M.
Toronto's top 4 are making a combined $40.5M.

How much hardware does Boston's top 4 have compared to Toronto's top 4?
Why exactly is Toronto paying these players this much money?

and some people in Toronto still think their GM isn't to blame for these troubles. LOL

To be fair, to Dubas you can't win when it comes to contract negotiations. If Dubas pulled the same shit with Marner and Matthews like he did with Nylander, a lot of people who are screaming at him now would have probably screamed at him for holding out with our franchise #1 centre. In the long run it would have probably been the smart thing to do, but he would be crucified having two straight years of holdouts with 3 of your top players. In situations like that you have to hope your stars will take less (even though they are 100% not obligated to do so) aside from Nylander who went through a 3 month hold out, Matthews and Marner cashed in.

 

[keonsbitterness]

Exactly this.

Boston sees their franchise as bigger than any player. Thornton didn't have that "edge" that they wanted in him (especially in the playoffs... sound familiar?), so they shipped him out. This is a guy that averaged about 110 points his previous 4 years before they traded him. lol

In Toronto, our star players are seen as bigger than the team. We're so scared of Matthews leaving that we coddle him. Our coach backtracked calling our star players out. It's created an entitlement culture. Boston isn't "scared" of a star player with a bad attitude leaving. They kick them out the door.

I don't know if Shanny and Dubas really see it that way, but team being bigger than any player should be a core principle for every team.

 

[mikeyz]

Hayes on Overdrive is absolutely destroying Holl for that 1st goal last night and asked the fans if Holl should be a top 4 D-man for the Leafs right now?

Its debatable Holl should be a top 4 for the Marlies nevermind the Leafs IMO.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

The Leafs play like they dont care. Marner is one of the only guys, noticeable, engaged and seems like he wants to make a difference. Matthews is not engaged this year, he is ripping shots from the blueline like he doesnt care, missing the net wildly etc...its kind of odd. Nylander didnt show up last night at all, invisible. Reilly has very average hockey sense, they need a defenseman better than him to move anywhere in the playoffs. Reilly is a 2-3 dman on a good team. They have one defenseman who can defend, Brodie who looks old this year, Giordano is on the decline, Holl is embarassing....Dubas did this.

I thought I was only 1 seeing all of this .. I am going to give a 1 game pass to Willy as anyone can have a bad game here and there and he and Mitch look to be only guys we got so far this season (and 1 game from Robertson) .. behind da scene you gotta think Willy is completely fed up with JT and Mitch same with Matty .. those 2 guys have been dead weights this season .. we are literally getting caved in at C every game so far .. last night Couture just fed Matty all night long .. it was an embarrassment .. and when JT and Matty are our 2 highest paid guys well guess what other guys start to stop drinking da koolaid .. untl Matty gets in game shape we are in deep deep sh*t

 

[GoonieFace]

The reality is this current core is simply not good enough, nothing more to it than that. A lot of people saw this coming years ago.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

Nice back check by Matthews on the 1st goal, Couture was behind him, outskated him to the other end and scores. Then with Nylander on the OT goal, Nylander watches himself turn the puck over and doesnt move, Karlsson was behind him and outskated him and scored. This isnt coach related. If i can see that the Leafs have 4 bottom pairing dmen on the squad, why wouldnt the top guys feel they have no chance to win this year in the playoffs based on what Dubas has built.

 

[MilkofthePoppy]

Dubas has cultivated an environment where losing is not only accepted, it's rewarded. Where "caring deeply" in the end of season interviews he has with players is more important than showing it on the ice. Where he hires his buddy instead of interviewing others
Too loyal, too set on his ways

All while projecting the opposite. He is a masterful politician. Talks about equity, equality, and diversity but gives all the most important jobs to his Soo buddies.

 

[supermann_98]

Yeah that selke trophy ain’t getting added to his collection anytime soon

 

[Pebble live]

The reality is this current core is simply not good enough, nothing more to it than that. A lot of people saw this coming years ago.

The core is good enough. The CORE on paper is decent. It's the surrounding players that Dubas has done a shit job with. The only change I'd make to this core is the JT signing and Kadri trade.

Give me Kadri at 2C all day and that possibly leads us to keeping Hyman.

JT signing
Kadri trade
Marchment for Malgin

In my opinion are the three events that have leads us to this spot. Each of those events has had a major domino effect.

Dubas handcuffed himself and can't surround the core with quality now because of it. He is the problem here and needs to go. The longer he's in the GM role the more Shanahan starts taking responsibility for this team.

 

[MilkofthePoppy]

The Kadri trade will still go down as one of Dubas worst trades. Don't care that he got suspended twice it was clear that he had more heart the 99% of the roster and he scored 30 goals. we rail roaded out of town for "Swiss Army Knife" Kerfoot and Barrie..... Swap Kadri for anyone on the team not named Matthews (and if we're talking Playoffs then yes even Matthews) and the team gets better.

If this team had any balls they would have rallied around Kadri and gave him a chance at redemption in later rounds. Instead he was scapegoated by management.

 

[Racer88]

The Kadri trade will still go down as one of Dubas worst trades. Don't care that he got suspended twice it was clear that he had more heart the 99% of the roster and he scored 30 goals. we rail roaded out of town for "Swiss Army Knife" Kerfoot and Barrie..... Swap Kadri for anyone on the team not named Matthews (and if we're talking Playoffs then yes even Matthews) and the team gets better.

Agreed 100%. I worked with one of Kadri’s uncles for 10 years and he was in my Sons class in high school. He was always polite and respectful to my son. He was a passionate player…….something that we sorely miss with these robots we have right now

 

[nsleaf]

Kadri had to go, all he did was hurt the Leafs, too bad he wasn't the player he is now a few years ago. He was given ample opportunity to succeed in Toronto, but failed.

 

[CDN24]

Couture was in front of Matthews when he (AM34) turned in Offensive zone - he should have identified Couture as the dangerous guy and his guy at that point. He skates (rather leisurely) all the way down the ice without once checking where Couture is. Did not see him until Couture had passed him and was taking the pass. Lazy play and you are down one.

 

[Pebble live]

If this team had any balls they would have rallied around Kadri and gave him a chance at redemption in later rounds. Instead he was scapegoated by management.

By management and ownership. MLSE is owned by the most corporate ownership in the league can't have a player looking a little dirty.

They want a clean image so mom and dad can take their kids to the game.

Shanahan even mentioned in his remarks when he took the job that the team has lost a generation of fans to the penguins, black hawks, and other successful teams.

They care about one thing, growing the brand as far and wide as possible and making money.

As long as the casual fan keeps going to the games, nothing will change.

 

[IPS]

Kadri had to go, all he did was hurt the Leafs, too bad he wasn't the player he is now a few years ago. He was given ample opportunity to succeed in Toronto, but failed.

Says you.

He showed balls in the playoffs when nobody else did. Was utterly disgraceful how the fanbase crucified him, what he did to get suspended wasn't even the worst thing to happen in those games alone. And to top it off the same goofballs who criticized him said he can't be relied upon in the playoffs only for him to win a cup while being a very valuable piece while doing so.

But hey I get it, he didn't play Dubas' PG friendly hockey so he had to go.