Less than $4M for all three of them (non ELC). What were the realistic expectations.?
LOL noticed Jarnkrok is signed for 4 yrs.
The core players are showing their true colors again
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Less than $4M for all three of them (non ELC). What were the realistic expectations.?
LOL noticed Jarnkrok is signed for 4 yrs.
DarkKnight
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Throw More Waffles
Unprecedented Dramatic Overpayments
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Exactly this.
Boston sees their franchise as bigger than any player. Thornton didn't have that "edge" that they wanted in him (especially in the playoffs... sound familiar?), so they shipped him out. This is a guy that averaged about 110 points his previous 4 years before they traded him. lol
In Toronto, our star players are seen as bigger than the team. We're so scared of Matthews leaving that we coddle him. Our coach backtracked calling our star players out. It's created an entitlement culture. Boston isn't "scared" of a star player with a bad attitude leaving. They kick them out the door.
Arthur Morgan
Registered User
I dunno if it does for me even then. I swear we were more well rounded or had more to work with back then. feels like we are just so depleted, sure we got some nice prospects still but that doesnt really help us right now, and if we trade them then we are just risking more of our future.
Hard to believe in this team, I love them but I just dont think they even believe in them selves at this point.
kinda feels like we are back to the muskoka 5 except this time it's not the players that wont leave its us the fans and our GM who either don't know who to move or dont want to move our top 5. funny how we're almost right back where we began when the salary cap came into the league except this time we got a couple top 10 players and a few more prospects to work with... maybe
stickty111
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- Jan 23, 2017
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CJ said today everything is on the table this year. If they don't respond by mid November, the coaching question gets asked and picks up steam.
I said yesterday this isn't a coaching problem. It's a deeper problem. However one reason I could support a change is because these players have been coddled, so bring in Trotz who will make them uncomfortable
I said yesterday this isn't a coaching problem. It's a deeper problem. However one reason I could support a change is because these players have been coddled, so bring in Trotz who will make them uncomfortable
Arthur Morgan
Registered User
ended up being a big mistake though, yeah he didnt fit into their need but they went out and got one hell of a shitty deal for him. so yeah might be so but its a bad example for what we should follow unless we should sell extremely low on everyone. I agree with the mindset but man that was a shit deal
Menzinger
Kessel4LadyByng
The season is definitely a referendum on both the front office as well as the core too.
If it flops, the front office will end up paying the price for making the bets they did and rightfully so.
But fair to say that also doesn't give the core a free pass. Guys like Matthews and Marner have now had multiple playoffs heading into games 6/7 to carry the team on their back to the next round, and haven't been able to get the job done. If the front office ends up getting removed, there
likely needs to be substantial changes to the core, and NOT necessarily the typical "trade Nylander for a D man" stuff we see here usually.
Obviously I'd still take as a preference deep playoff success this time around to shut us all up.
If it flops, the front office will end up paying the price for making the bets they did and rightfully so.
But fair to say that also doesn't give the core a free pass. Guys like Matthews and Marner have now had multiple playoffs heading into games 6/7 to carry the team on their back to the next round, and haven't been able to get the job done. If the front office ends up getting removed, there
likely needs to be substantial changes to the core, and NOT necessarily the typical "trade Nylander for a D man" stuff we see here usually.
Obviously I'd still take as a preference deep playoff success this time around to shut us all up.
Jimmy Firecracker
Backcheck, Forecheck, Paycheque.
The core didn’t have the right veterans around in their formative playing years. JVR and Bozak are fine players to be sure but they aren’t warriors and don’t have that hate to lose attitude. Marleau is a loser who cares more about his games played record than winning and our best players latched onto him and absorbed all of his crappy wisdom. Tavares is a great player but he also lacks that intensity this team so desperately needs. Muzzin is a fine vet but he showed up perhaps too late to really drive home the point. And while Kadri wasn’t an old veteran while he was here, he did have that hate to lose attitude although the league and team punished him for it. You’d think Spezza would’ve imbued this core with the hate to lose attitude but maybe he was seen as too old and desperate to win for it to resonate. Simmonds is too old as well for the team to take seriously, and Thornton is the exact same as Marleau with his laissez faire attitude. Don’t know why Mitch bothered to visit him.
End of it all, we’ve got a core that too often takes nights off, doesn’t seem to be bothered by losses, and expects to coast to wins a lot of nights.
End of it all, we’ve got a core that too often takes nights off, doesn’t seem to be bothered by losses, and expects to coast to wins a lot of nights.
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MattySnipes
Registered User
I don't get the "fans" who tell others to go out and get some air, don't be so emotionally invested, etc, etc.
We are all fans of the same team, a lot of us much longer than others. We haven't betrayed them or left. We continue to support and hope they'll be turned around and will figure it out.
It's just the same issues annually. People say oh who cares they lose to shit teams...they beat the really good ones. That's not the right attitude. They get paid ALOT of money for regular season, so they shouldn't be allowed to cherry pick which games they can choose to show up in.
Respect the game. Use your teammates. Show some backbone. Stand up for your teammates. Such a loser attitude on this team.
You question and raise your voice at these players and they start getting rattled and say don't talk to me like that...we're grown men. If you're grown men, have some respect for your historic team. Instead of making it more embarrassing annually.
We are all fans of the same team, a lot of us much longer than others. We haven't betrayed them or left. We continue to support and hope they'll be turned around and will figure it out.
It's just the same issues annually. People say oh who cares they lose to shit teams...they beat the really good ones. That's not the right attitude. They get paid ALOT of money for regular season, so they shouldn't be allowed to cherry pick which games they can choose to show up in.
Respect the game. Use your teammates. Show some backbone. Stand up for your teammates. Such a loser attitude on this team.
You question and raise your voice at these players and they start getting rattled and say don't talk to me like that...we're grown men. If you're grown men, have some respect for your historic team. Instead of making it more embarrassing annually.
Menzinger
Kessel4LadyByng
Not to rehash this old thing again( probably going to regret even mentioning it) but Marleau in particular was a fairly odd choice for mentorship.
The guys had a fairly "quite" career in the grand scheme of things, and had a very cerebral playing style, it's not as if he was an guy like Igilna who was willing to sacrifice the body or play agressively ect. And then you have the whole Sharks choking history (which should be fair isn't just on him).
AcerComputer
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Team is not constructed properly, you need balance. I would prefer us to have a two $5M players vs one $10M player, in order to create 3 scoring lines. That way if one line gets shutdown, we have 2 other lines that can do damage. We basically have to hope that guys who are on ELCs pan out, like Robertson and Knies and be top 6 guys.
With that said, I don't put much stock into the first 10 games of the season, and as bad as they have played their record has them as a playoff team still. But I don't have much hope for this team, and not hopeful they will do any damage in the playoffs. They are what they are.
With that said, I don't put much stock into the first 10 games of the season, and as bad as they have played their record has them as a playoff team still. But I don't have much hope for this team, and not hopeful they will do any damage in the playoffs. They are what they are.
CDN24
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The problem is the team has no middle and no ELC bargains
You have the big 4 and Rielly
You have 5 guys making More than $2M (Janrok 2.1M, Engval 2.2M Kerfoot 3.5M Brodie 5M, Muzzin 5.6M
There is only Robertson on an ELC and even he did not make roster out of Camp but should have.
You have a bunch of cast offs on minimum salaries or being paid less than $2M. Most guys post ELC that are making under $2M have significant flaws or weakness.
Cup winner Colorado has 11 Guys making between 2 and under 7M
Edmonton has 10
Boston has 14
Tampa only has 8 but that will like drop next year as some extensions (sergachev) kick in.
It is expected for a team that has been at the top to get capped out and have no players on ELC as they move them out at each deadline. Tampa is about to get there soon. It happened to the Hawks, the Kings after their cups.
The sad thing for the Leafs is its happened to them without even winning a playoff series let alone a cup.
You have the big 4 and Rielly
You have 5 guys making More than $2M (Janrok 2.1M, Engval 2.2M Kerfoot 3.5M Brodie 5M, Muzzin 5.6M
There is only Robertson on an ELC and even he did not make roster out of Camp but should have.
You have a bunch of cast offs on minimum salaries or being paid less than $2M. Most guys post ELC that are making under $2M have significant flaws or weakness.
Cup winner Colorado has 11 Guys making between 2 and under 7M
Edmonton has 10
Boston has 14
Tampa only has 8 but that will like drop next year as some extensions (sergachev) kick in.
It is expected for a team that has been at the top to get capped out and have no players on ELC as they move them out at each deadline. Tampa is about to get there soon. It happened to the Hawks, the Kings after their cups.
The sad thing for the Leafs is its happened to them without even winning a playoff series let alone a cup.
Notsince67
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CDN24
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And then double down on that by bringing in Thornton, even Giordano, I like him but he is hardly the vet you want for playoffs been there done that experience. Really missed an opportunity in 2020-21 in not picking up Perry. That's the type of veteran they needed, not a broken down Simmonds also with no playoff success
HockeyVirus
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8 games into the season, 4-3 record, and fans are ready to run Matthews out of town.
Short memory here. We went through pain to get these guys. The answer is to retool and move maybe a Nylander or Marner not a Matthews ffs
Short memory here. We went through pain to get these guys. The answer is to retool and move maybe a Nylander or Marner not a Matthews ffs
Eternal Leaf
Registered User
It's unfortunate but the Leafs have a blend of stars that can't handle adversity.
Matthews is a bonafide superstar but the others leave a lot to be desired in key situations. They don't have the mental makeup for it and this has been proven on multiple occasions in do-or-die games.
These early-season struggles will go away but the overarching issues remain and I don't see them changing.
Matthews is a bonafide superstar but the others leave a lot to be desired in key situations. They don't have the mental makeup for it and this has been proven on multiple occasions in do-or-die games.
These early-season struggles will go away but the overarching issues remain and I don't see them changing.
Dubas thinks kiddie gloving the kids will be reciprocated in a meaningful and mutually respectful relationship.
Instead, they bent him over backwards and show up when they want to.
Know they are on the verge of being deemed coach killers, and you have the inmates running the asylum.
Only thing I see Dubas can do is grow a pair, fire Keefe and hire Trotz. Then hold a players meeting being clear that this is the last coaching change, and the next things to change are the players, and that means everyone.
Dubas is good at the draft, but I think Shanahan has to take over trades and negotiations of contracts. They are not Dubas’ strengths and he loses far more trades and negotiations than he wins. We simply can’t have that happening.
Dubas has a horrible track record of squandered assets in trades that don’t work out, and end up costing us picks to get out from under.
Dubas doesn’t like it? Then he’s not a winner and he doesn’t get it. There’s the door Kyle, if that’s the case.
We are the goddamn Toronto Maple Leafs. Everyone can take a flying fcuk at a rolling donut if the name on the back means more than the crest on the front.
Instead, they bent him over backwards and show up when they want to.
Know they are on the verge of being deemed coach killers, and you have the inmates running the asylum.
Only thing I see Dubas can do is grow a pair, fire Keefe and hire Trotz. Then hold a players meeting being clear that this is the last coaching change, and the next things to change are the players, and that means everyone.
Dubas is good at the draft, but I think Shanahan has to take over trades and negotiations of contracts. They are not Dubas’ strengths and he loses far more trades and negotiations than he wins. We simply can’t have that happening.
Dubas has a horrible track record of squandered assets in trades that don’t work out, and end up costing us picks to get out from under.
Dubas doesn’t like it? Then he’s not a winner and he doesn’t get it. There’s the door Kyle, if that’s the case.
We are the goddamn Toronto Maple Leafs. Everyone can take a flying fcuk at a rolling donut if the name on the back means more than the crest on the front.
Jimmy Firecracker
Backcheck, Forecheck, Paycheque.
It should’ve been Simmonds and Perry, not Simmonds and Thornton. The “old skill guy” position was already filled by Spezza. Having an agitator in Perry and muscle in Simmonds would’ve been a much better combo. Also with the butterfly effect Perry wouldn’t have been on Montreal and knocked out JT.
Jmo89
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Martin Skoula
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I vaguely remember Dubas going into detail on the positive impact of a mid-season coaching change from an analytic perspective years back, I don't think Keefe is as safe as people think under Dubas.
Martin Skoula
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He got stripped of the C, milked us for every penny and trade protection he could, and in the only actual test of his mentorship he gave Matthews the worst possible advice on how to deal with his legal problem and neglected to tell management himself. The only reason to pay attention to Marleau is to teach your young players how not to play. Shame to see the GP record go to a guy on a pity contract just barely going through the motions since 2018.
Throw More Waffles
Unprecedented Dramatic Overpayments
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Yeah, they got poor value. But that wasn't the point. They determined he didn't have a winners attitude. They won the cup a few years later, he never did. To Boston, no player is bigger than the team. They must all literally laugh out loud when the see Dubas and co. groveling at Matthews feet.
