The core players are showing their true colors again

[NewEraGM]

Wow

 

[SoVi3t]

Realistically, why can't we bench a couple core players? Why can't we tell Mitch he isn't showing up for games, and we need him to watch from the press box for awhile, so that he remembers how to hockey?

 

[Havoc]

You're right. What was our old 1st line?

JVR - Bozak - Kessel
Phaneuf Gunnerson -

These players have 4 cup rings

The team with kessel kadri phaneuf franson etc that blew game 7 to the Bruins would sweep this current team in the playoffs.

My heart is just broken that we have two superstars and two all stars of a core and they handed it to Kyle f***ing Dubas rookie GM.

 

[Shooter2x]

The team with kessel kadri phaneuf franson etc that blew game 7 to the Bruins would sweep this current team in the playoffs.

My heart is just broken that we have two superstars and two all stars of a core and they handed it to Kyle f***ing Dubas rookie GM.

Matthew Knies, 2026 savior consolation prize washes away all of Dubas' sins

Maybe Robertson will score more often than he falls down too by then, just maybe.

Then 30 year old Marner and 31 year old Nylander finally hit their prime and we're ready to go. Dubas is so modern and progressive he knows modern medicine will advance to the point it can delay the onset of prime years

I don't know if I'm so rude towards Dubas because of how much I dislike him as a GM, or if it has become a coping mechanism to keep me from crying over what happened to my team.

 

[capfit9]

Dubas will probably waive Malgin or Aube Kubel or sent down Robertson and call it a day, then Keefe will present it as 'changing the mix' of the team.

 

[Mickey Marner]

Realistically, why can't we bench a couple core players? Why can't we tell Mitch he isn't showing up for games, and we need him to watch from the press box for awhile, so that he remembers how to hockey?

Because that would be mean and might hurt someone’s feelings. We need to helicopter parent these “men” in their mid-20’s in order to shield them from this cruel world.

 

[Gallagbi]

But I think in particular Matthews has looked the most unlike himself. Matthews is shooting at what 4/5%? It’s not like his line mates haven’t gotten him the puck. He’s not finishing and my main issue with Marner playing with Matthews has always been that Matthews’ cookies always have to come first. I argued it before on here, Marner plays better with Tavares because he’s free to just kind of play and create.

When he’s with Matthews you see how much he is forcing plays to try and get Matthews to score instead of focusing on what he needs to do to be successful.

A lot of people will disagree but the more I watch, the more I’ve come to the conclusion that Matthews does bring his teammates play down when he isn’t playing well because the rest of the line is hyper focused on getting him the puck to score instead of making plays for themselves to score.

They all feel out of sync. Marner isnt skating well or creating much, with means less good looks for Matthews. Who also isnt creating or finishing. Bunts just looks like ass overall

 

[Blowfish]

Zeke take?

 

[LeafGrief]

I think what we're seeing now is the natural progression of years of this team believing that the playoffs are the only thing that matters. The media, the fans, and management are all telling the players that success in the spring doesn't matter. Why on earth would they work hard in October when they know that two weeks from now nobody will care if they've resumed playing well? They know that if they win three straight, all of the angst will be forgiven. That in February this will all just be a bad dream. They know that they had 115 points last year and nobody cared because they lost in the first round again. They believe that the regular season doesn't matter, so they play like it.

This core is not hungry. This team plays like they have lost the joy of the game. This core has proven time and time and time again that they need to hit rock bottom before they change. They have proven that they are motivated by fear of being embarrassed, rather than a desire to win. They have to stumble out of the gate to engage in the regular season. They need to lose to the Habs and CBJ in what should have been gimme series before they play a hard series against Tampa.

There is very little doubt in my mind that this team has enough talent. This core had 115 points last year and that matters. They gave the defending champs an intense series and that matters. They have what it takes on paper, but they just don't have the mental makeup of an elite NHL team. It doesn't matter if you fire the coach and the management unless the next guys seriously shake up the team. The big 4 experiment has run its course. As a group of human beings working towards a common goal, this team is not working.

This team needs to get hungry again. This core needs to be broken up and new players brought in. We have enough talent, we don't need to rebuild, but we need a massive shakeup of who the core are. Calgary levels of shakeup, the team must believe that they are a new group with a new story to write. The team must believe that they have something to prove again.

 

[Gallagbi]

I think what we're seeing now is the natural progression of years of this team believing that the playoffs are the only thing that matters. The media, the fans, and management are all telling the players that success in the spring doesn't matter. Why on earth would they work hard in October when they know that two weeks from now nobody will care if they've resumed playing well? They know that if they win three straight, all of the angst will be forgiven. That in February this will all just be a bad dream. They know that they had 115 points last year and nobody cared because they lost in the first round again. They believe that the regular season doesn't matter, so they play like it.

This core is not hungry. This team plays like they have lost the joy of the game. This core has proven time and time and time again that they need to hit rock bottom before they change. They have to stumble out of the gate to engage in the regular season. They need to lose to the Habs in what should have been a gimme series before they play a hard series the next year.

There is very little doubt in my mind that this team has enough talent. This core had 115 points last year and that matters. They gave the defending champs an intense series and that matters. They have what it takes on paper, but they just don't have the mental makeup of an elite NHL team. It doesn't matter if you fire the coach and the management unless the next guys seriously shake up the team. The big 4 experiment has run its course. As a group of human beings working towards a common goal, this team is not working.

This team needs to get hungry again. This core needs to be broken up and new players brought in. We have enough talent, we don't need to rebuild, but we need a massive shakeup of who the core are. Calgary levels of shakeup, the team must believe that they are a new group with a new story to write. The team must believe that they have something to prove again.

Feels like they enjoy being good, but have no willingness to sacrafice for greatness.

 

[killer1980]

Watched Calgary/Edmonton game last night. The announcers talked time after time about the guts and determination of Kadri and Hyman. Even if you say they both had to go, they had to be replaced with players having the same characteristics. As stated in previous posts Dubas has exorcised the heart and sould of the team and all he has left is an empty, hollow shell.

 

[DarkKnight]

Matthews,Marner,Nylander,Rielly,Kadri,
Kapanen,jonsson,Jvr,Hyman,brown.
A very young,very fast,skilled core.
Just work on improving the D and watch them grow.
Dubas then went after Tavares.
He was supposed to be a superstar difference maker. A mini crosby.
Look at what happened.
Fire the whole management team.
And for me i would keep Matthews,Marner, and Rielly and move the rest or at least try.

Wow, there’s no way anyone can possibly argue we’re as deep or skilled as we were. Well, maybe for most people

 

[Malachi Crunch]

I mean if you just trade Mathews to Arizona you'd probably get Keller, Cooley, and Guenther from them. Thats a haul and the Leafs gain $4.4 million in cap space.

Normally, I don't love Matthews trade talks, but for that haul? I would do it.

 

[LeafGrief]

Feels like they enjoy being good, but have no willingness to sacrafice for greatness.

They don't look like they enjoy being good right now. Somehow we ended up with a team that neither enjoys winning nor hates losing. I think the pressure has destroyed them. How can a team believe that it's cup or bust when they haven't even made it out of the first round?

I don't think that words like "passion" or "sacrifice" describe what's going on with this team. I think it's about "purpose".

 

[Throw More Waffles]

All I’m going to say is, maybe this market really is the problem. Every player we say that has a “character flaw” has moved on and did well once they leave this place.

Phil Kessel - Lazy, unmotivated, bad at defense, not passionate, not a good role model (goes on to win 2 cups and plays a vital role)

Dion Phanuef - bad leader (was an integral part of two deep runs in Ottawa)

Nazem Kadri - immature, undisciplined, (goes on to win a Stanley Cup and was an integral piece to Colorado’s win)

I’m sure there’s more that we can list from the 80’s to 90’s to early 2000’s.

Alex Steen, Larry Murphy, Codi Ceci, Tyson Barrie

One thing is for sure, this market loves to hate their own players. Playing in Toronto is a dream and nightmare. It’s probably amazing being a Toronto Maple Leaf, original six team, all the lights and attention, but I get why players excel after leaving here. This market is a sesspool for hate.

I’m gonna cut it short here, but I personally think people project their own feelings of the team onto Marner and it’s pretty funny that people think that the playoff failure of this team is due to Marner rubbing off on the team. That’s a load of shit, I’m sorry. This team as a group sucks in the playoffs. Matthews, Marner, Nylander’s production is about the same in the playoffs. So it doesn’t all fall on Marner’s shoulders. How many goals has Matthews scored in game deciding games again?

I don't know...

Everybody knew Kessel wasn't the type of player to build around. He was more of a "final piece" on a team with players like Crosby/Malkin.

Phaneuf was solid with the leafs as well as with Ottawa... he just had too high a cap hit on both teams compared to what he brought to the table.

Kadri got suspended his next playoff series as well.

We could create an even longer list of players who were decent with the leafs, but sucked elsewhere. Kapanen, Johnsson, JVR, etc.

 

[rocketman588]

Realistically, why can't we bench a couple core players? Why can't we tell Mitch he isn't showing up for games, and we need him to watch from the press box for awhile, so that he remembers how to hockey?

We won't even split Mathews and Marner up

What makes you think we have the balls to healthy scratch them

 

[horner]

Its time for a change we aren't doing anything in the playoff. A good chance we won't even make it with this defence.

Trade
Nylander great scorer but doesn't get involved enough
Marner love him as a player but we need a change
Kerfoot
Engval
Sandin

We should have made these moves last yr
Signed as UFA's
Kubelik lw 2.5 mil
Burakovsky lw 5.5 mil
Strome c 3.5 mil
Niederreiter rw 4 mil
Svechnickov rw .75 mil

Trade for
Anderson rw montreal
Konecny re philly
I don't know what it would take to get any of these players

Then rebuild the defence

Would not have signed
Jamkrock
Kubel

Bunting Mathews Konecny
Burakovsky taveras anderson
Kubelik strome niederreiter
Simmons kampf svechnickov

 

[HoweHullOrr]

Revisionist history.

Cap was always supposed to rise. The crunch only happened when it didn't (for reasons that were entirely unpredictable).

Nothing is guaranteed except for taxes and death. What level is spent on salaries is a conscious choice not some kind of fait accompli. Things happen - that's life. It could be a pandemic, it could be currency conversion (difference between Canadian & U.S. dollar) which has happened in the past. It could be other things. The problem is that people don't learn from history and have very short memories.

But, more importantly, how the cap dollars are distributed is completely independent of the theory that the cap will supposedly & predictably keep rising in an unabated fashion. That is within the control of the management group and is not connected to cap increases. How to distribute the cap dollars is a conscious decision that is made by management.

Seems like some people are committed to a culture of making excuses. The truth is hard. The lemmings run for the fallacy, folly & the cover of excuses.

 

[Gilmour1996]

The more pieces you change in the bottom 6 every year, the greater the chances you will eventually rotate in a clubhouse lawyer or s**t disturber. I wonder if there is now one in the room. Perhaps the core has someone they can now listen to, instead of their coach? Or the clubhouse lawyer/s**t disturber could be one of the core?

 

[Stephen]

Instead of the Leafs learning from their playoff experiences and building into a more serious contender, it seems like the rest of the league has simply applied that first round formula against Toronto, completely boxing out their big guns by clogging up the ice they like and counter rush smashing the Keefe "system."

 

[Stephen]

Dubas needs to trade one of these guys now. Perferably Marner. They continue to not reward you for your faith in them. You will actually be respected for it.

Dubas should take his earnings from being the Toronto Maple Leafs GM and take an ownership position with the Soo Greyhounds.

 

[Stephen]

I think this is the key issue this year. Matthews has looked so bad this year. The other guys at least have been performing a bit

Disagree. While I've really appreciated Tavares rejuvenation early in the year and Nylander has had a more consistent motor this year, we have to remember they have been front and center on a lot of back breaking defensive sequences. The 3rd period GWG by Montreal was the second line blowing the zone. The OT loss to San Jose was Nylander to Sandin, a few other gaffes in between. Robertson with that duo was getting caved in Vegas. I'd say the biggest problems are still the Big Line but lost in all the chaos is the 2nd has been bad defensively too.

 

[Nineteen67]

The next 14 days are big. Although you can’t make the playoffs with these games, you can miss them.
After tonight - Philly, Broons and Carolina B2B, VGK, Pitt and Van B2B.

 

[BrannigansLaw]

The next 14 days are big. Although you can’t make the playoffs with these games, you can miss them.
After tonight - Philly, Broons and Carolina B2B, VGK, Pitt and Van B2B.

Somehow they’ll beat Carolina back to back and but lose to Vancouver back to back just to prolong our torture because that’s this core’s sole purpose of existence.

 

[Nineteen67]

Somehow they’ll beat Carolina back to back and but lose to Vancouver back to back just to prolong our torture because that’s this core’s sole purpose of existence.

VGK plays a soft game and has nothing to prove so the Leafs will probably win that one.