The core players are showing their true colors again

[Puckstuff]

The biggest advantage they will get is when the older players in the league all retire because the next generation is even softer then this one

 

[Xirik]

This video seems to show and sum up what you guys are saying.

 

[francis246]

From my perspective, I'd just like to separate the Toronto Maple Leafs identity from his. The whole fragility under pressure, drama with coaches, etc.

We’ll that’s a media/fan driven perspective, not his identity lol. if you want to separate it as a fan, do it? You’ll probably enjoy him a lot more. I’ve never subscribed to that train of thought when it comes to Marner so I don’t associate that with him specifically and I don’t think trading Marner will solve that.

The team is fragile under pressure though. That’s a group thing. Not a Marner thing. I don’t think the players have an issue with the coaches, I think the coaching staff lack confidence in themselves. So much so, they have to feel the need to bring every little thing to the leadership group. The more you read into it, the more it seems that Kyle and Sheldon created a lot of this themselves. The approach they have taken towards the players has back fired. The players aren’t asking for coaches to call them into meetings, the GM and Coach time and time again feel the HAVE to. If there is anyone to blame for the media driven narrative/perspective/identity of the team it’s Kyle and Sheldon. For continuously bringing up they need to talk to these guys after every situation.

 

[HellasLEAF]

The team will never win until the cap goes up significantly or they trade a core player.

You just can't fake it in this league. Leafs have lost too many quality depth players as cap casualties and don't have the space to add to the team.

 

[1specter]

Ship Mitch's entitled ass out

 

[Stephen]

We’ll that’s a media/fan driven perspective, not his identity lol. if you want to separate it as a fan, do it? You’ll probably enjoy him a lot more. I’ve never subscribed to that train of thought when it comes to Marner so I don’t associate that with him specifically and I don’t think trading Marner will solve that.

The team is fragile under pressure though. That’s a group thing. Not a Marner thing. I don’t think the players have an issue with the coaches, I think the coaching staff lack confidence in themselves. So much so, they have to feel the need to bring every little thing to the leadership group. The more you read into it, the more it seems that Kyle and Sheldon created a lot of this themselves. The approach they have taken towards the players has back fired. The players aren’t asking for coaches to call them into meetings, the GM and Coach time and time again feel the HAVE to. If there is anyone to blame for the media driven narrative/perspective/identity of the team it’s Kyle and Sheldon. For continuously bringing up they need to talk to these guys after every situation.

For me, I think it's both things you said.

At the top, Dubas and Keefe don't know what they're doing when it comes to their constant yapping about belief in the core, their extreme anxiety about calling them to account, walking it back.

Also look at their extreme galaxy brain and yo-yo'ing of players creating instability. Build a new 4th line. Banish the old one. Put Simmonds out to pasture, bring him back in the To 9. Promote Sandin and Robertson inappropriately fast. Bury them. Sign Barabanov, Lehtonen. Give them 6 weeks in a pandemic to catch fire with minimal ice time. Banish them. Things not working out with Nick Ritchie? Pay to get rid of him. It just doesn't make sense half the time. It's like they're managing a fantasy team.

For the Marner part, I think if one of your big dogs has a certain personality and the rest of the team behaves like him, best believe his personality has helped shape the team identity. I wouldn't expect one of our big stars to wilt under the heat but all the mercenary scrubs here to prove themselves are going to go through walls a la Mackinnon.

 

[Stephen]

The team will never win until the cap goes up significantly or they trade a core player.

You just can't fake it in this league. Leafs have lost too many quality depth players as cap casualties and don't have the space to add to the team.

Also doesn't help when the GM own goals it with near $10 million in cap just hanging out in LTIR.

 

[MilkofthePoppy]

Honestly. This is great. I can't wait for this little woke management experiment to end.

 

[1specter]

For me, I think it's both things you said.

At the top, Dubas and Keefe don't know what they're doing when it comes to their constant yapping about belief in the core, their extreme anxiety about calling them to account, walking it back.

Also look at their extreme galaxy brain and yo-yo'ing of players creating instability. Build a new 4th line. Banish the old one. Put Simmonds out to pasture, bring him back in the To 9. Promote Sandin and Robertson inappropriately fast. Bury them. Sign Barabanov, Lehtonen. Give them 6 weeks in a pandemic to catch fire with minimal ice time. Banish them. Things not working out with Nick Ritchie? Pay to get rid of him. It just doesn't make sense half the time. It's like they're managing a fantasy team.

For the Marner part, I think if one of your big dogs has a certain personality and the rest of the team behaves like him, best believe his personality has helped shape the team identity. I wouldn't expect one of our big stars to wilt under the heat but all the mercenary scrubs here to prove themselves are going to go through walls a la Mackinnon.

Agreed with all of this, team had a fractured identity

 

[Cournoyer12]

Warts and all I think Kadri should have been kept. Grit player with a lot of talent, was never afraid of contact!

 

[Stephen]

Agreed with all of this, team had a fractured identity

I've also thought that the idea of pitching mercenaries to come here to 'prove themselves' and earn a bigger cheque somewhere was not a sustainable pitch. You're not building any organizational loyalty or committed foot soldiers to do the dirty work. They're here for a cup of coffee and aren't buying into a team concept if there was one.

 

[centipede2233]

this is a perfect example of the inmates running the asylum

 

[Nhlpowerweek]

The players, coach, and GM all need to go.

There's gotta be a house cleaning like president nixon said back in the 70's.

 

[PROUD PAPA]

The way i see it is that after so many consecutive playoff failures they're quitting on themselves at this point.

Edit: my post was made when the thread title was "have the players quit on another coach"? So at least it made a tiny bit of sense then. Maybe.

 

[Apotheosis]

Ngl, I kind of would not mind seeing the Leafs tank this year and implode, have management be toppled and forced to restructure. Maybe even get a shot at drafting Bedard so you can trade multiple core pieces to round out the team instead of this joke of a squad we have now.

 

[Xirik]

Ngl, I kind of would not mind seeing the Leafs tank this year and implode, have management be toppled and forced to restructure. Maybe even get a shot at drafting Bedard so you can trade multiple core pieces to round out the team instead of this joke of a squad we have now.

I mean if you just trade Mathews to Arizona you'd probably get Keller, Cooley, and Guenther from them. Thats a haul and the Leafs gain $4.4 million in cap space.

 

[BackPassChampions]

The core is a joke. The supporting cast is a joke. The coach is a joke. Management is a joke.

Marner and Nylander are far too soft, and a lot of the supporting cast as well.

Us fans have put up with endless years of bullshit and we should not settle for anything less than a player who is a fierce competitor who will do whatever it takes to win.

Shanahan was brought in and promised a culture change, ironically, we need a culture change.

 

[francis246]

For me, I think it's both things you said.

At the top, Dubas and Keefe don't know what they're doing when it comes to their constant yapping about belief in the core, their extreme anxiety about calling them to account, walking it back.

Also look at their extreme galaxy brain and yo-yo'ing of players creating instability. Build a new 4th line. Banish the old one. Put Simmonds out to pasture, bring him back in the To 9. Promote Sandin and Robertson inappropriately fast. Bury them. Sign Barabanov, Lehtonen. Give them 6 weeks in a pandemic to catch fire with minimal ice time. Banish them. Things not working out with Nick Ritchie? Pay to get rid of him. It just doesn't make sense half the time. It's like they're managing a fantasy team.

For the Marner part, I think if one of your big dogs has a certain personality and the rest of the team behaves like him, best believe his personality has helped shape the team identity. I wouldn't expect one of our big stars to wilt under the heat but all the mercenary scrubs here to prove themselves are going to go through walls a la Mackinnon.

All I’m going to say is, maybe this market really is the problem. Every player we say that has a “character flaw” has moved on and did well once they leave this place.

Phil Kessel - Lazy, unmotivated, bad at defense, not passionate, not a good role model (goes on to win 2 cups and plays a vital role)

Dion Phanuef - bad leader (was an integral part of two deep runs in Ottawa)

Nazem Kadri - immature, undisciplined, (goes on to win a Stanley Cup and was an integral piece to Colorado’s win)

I’m sure there’s more that we can list from the 80’s to 90’s to early 2000’s.

Alex Steen, Larry Murphy, Codi Ceci, Tyson Barrie

One thing is for sure, this market loves to hate their own players. Playing in Toronto is a dream and nightmare. It’s probably amazing being a Toronto Maple Leaf, original six team, all the lights and attention, but I get why players excel after leaving here. This market is a sesspool for hate.

I’m gonna cut it short here, but I personally think people project their own feelings of the team onto Marner and it’s pretty funny that people think that the playoff failure of this team is due to Marner rubbing off on the team. That’s a load of shit, I’m sorry. This team as a group sucks in the playoffs. Matthews, Marner, Nylander’s production is about the same in the playoffs. So it doesn’t all fall on Marner’s shoulders. How many goals has Matthews scored in game deciding games again?

 

[SoVi3t]

Ship Mitch's entitled ass out

100% he has to go. Get anything at all for him. Draft picks. A backup goalie. Defence. A bag of pucks. Literally take anything, he is 100% detrimental to this team.

 

[francis246]

Ship Mitch's entitled ass out

Very interesting to see the dynamic of Marner vs Matthews within our fanbase. Marner is entitled, Matthews isn’t..

Personally I think both are. That’s the problem with the core. But ultimately, I think one cares more about being a Maple Leaf than the other and that’s what should matter.

Either way I think a move would be good for both parties. The team probably should move Marner, he’ll go on to win a cup and probably have a ton of success elsewhere. The team can rebuild and use those assets to attempt once again to rebuild the core.

But I deeply feel this is an organizational issue. Why is it, that we go through this with so many players, but when they move on, other teams are able to sort it out or make it work with them? Something is wrong in terms of our developmental staff when it comes to on ice identity

 

[Punch Drunk Loov]

Very interesting to see the dynamic of Marner vs Matthews within our fanbase. Marner is entitled, Matthews isn’t..

Personally I think both are. That’s the problem with the core. But ultimately, I think one cares more about being a Maple Leaf than the other and that’s what should matter.

Either way I think a move would be good for both parties. The team probably should move Marner, he’ll go on to win a cup and probably have a ton of success elsewhere. The team can rebuild and use those assets to attempt once again to rebuild the core.

But I deeply feel this is an organizational issue. Why is it, that we go through this with so many players, but when they move on, other teams are able to sort it out or make it work with them? Something is wrong in terms of our developmental staff when it comes to on ice identity

You're right. What was our old 1st line?

JVR - Bozak - Kessel
Phaneuf Gunnerson -

These players have 4 cup rings

 

[Willchel Marlynder]

Very interesting to see the dynamic of Marner vs Matthews within our fanbase. Marner is entitled, Matthews isn’t..

Personally I think both are. That’s the problem with the core. But ultimately, I think one cares more about being a Maple Leaf than the other and that’s what should matter.

Either way I think a move would be good for both parties. The team probably should move Marner, he’ll go on to win a cup and probably have a ton of success elsewhere. The team can rebuild and use those assets to attempt once again to rebuild the core.

But I deeply feel this is an organizational issue. Why is it, that we go through this with so many players, but when they move on, other teams are able to sort it out or make it work with them? Something is wrong in terms of our developmental staff when it comes to on ice identity

Matthews is a franchise C that we have been missing since Sundin so he will get a pass. He really doesn't look great though....

 

[Holymakinaw]

I'm sorry I'm not blaming early season issues again. This trend of playing down to teams is here once again.
This is all on the core players which the GM continues to support.
We need changes and it can't be the coach or be the only one. Either Dubas needs to change this dressing room or someone else should.

Yer not wrong.

 

[Havoc]

Dubas messing up this core puts him below JFJ when you bring it to scale.

Yes, I said it. Dubas fan boys come at me I'm ready.

 

[Mickey Marner]

You're right. What was our old 1st line?

JVR - Bozak - Kessel
Phaneuf Gunnerson -

These players have 4 cup rings

True, but they won those cups playing on the third line/pair, not the first. This team has a loser culture and that’s on ownership & management. The Yankees, Lakers, Man U, Barça etc. have rabid fan bases too and they still manage to field winners.