The Core Has To Go

[myleafs]

The soft label is backed by nothing other anecdotal speculation. Not so for your idol Nylander. There is nothing redeeming about a player who doesn't hit at all, never blocks and only achieves more goals because he shoots at net significantly more even with a lower conversion percentage. Marners play setups is not stat padding. He is involved in more goals than most people in the league. Nylander on the other hand will accept the work of others as evidenced through actions like blown zones and shoot whether there is a look or not.
He almost never finishes a check.
Marner is a glue playmaker. Nylander is a playmaker's vampire. There is a reason why there is a discrepancy in minutes, deployment and yes...even salary.

I agree about Nylander but Marner shrinks/loses his iq when the going gets tough but he is the guy that will get us to the dance more than Nylander does.

 

[myleafs]

When I was a kid, I really wanted a bicycle.

So I prayed to God every day for one. Then I realized that's not how God works. So I beat someone up and stole his.

Asked for God's forgiveness after.

That's the problem with this core. They do too much praying to win. Not enough bullying and stealing of games.

They've become the laughing stock of the NHL as a result.

It's gotten to the point everybody's waiting for them to fail. So we can all laugh at them again. Always aiming to please their fans, the Leafs continue to do exactly that.

Fail.

If human beings are the most intelligent living creatures in the universe, then God aimed low. Our species is so wretched that praying for others to fail has become a sport in and of itself. Then thanking God after that it wasn't us He shafted.

So long as it's somebody else's bicycle that got stolen.

lol while I agree with your point, that analogy about just stealing someones bike is interesting. Or they could just work hard and figure out what it takes to buy themselves a new bike....or..... I see a team like Florida who sees you trying to take their bike and they f*** you up.....When Florida goes to take the leafs bike the leafs step aside and say go ahead its yours.

What isn't anecdotal is his performance in big series.

But perhaps it isn't marner, perhaps it is marner trying to setup Matthews?

Setting up Matthews throughout the Montreal series and they get 1 goal.
Setting up Matthews throughout the Florida series and they get 1 goal, and it was marner's.

That combination has had extreme failures in the post season, but maybe it is Keefe and Matthews who are the failures?

They are all failures every one of them

 

[myleafs]

Marner is a 200 foot player in the regular season. His play in the D zone is about positioning and reading the play.

He excels because he's capable of slowing down the game. In the regular season.

In the playoffs, trying to slow down the game doesn't work. You have to dial ip everything including speed.

I think we should trade marner, but if we do it may hurt our stance trying to re sign matthews. I'd rather see it blown up than not. Regardless of that I'd prefer a new coach.

If none of these things change, we'll have another season similar to last and probably get our hopes up then lose. It's not the worst thing in the world.

speak for yourself....doing the same thing and getting the same results again would be about as bad as it can get for me.

Brain fart!

It's too bad he didn't play center, that's strength down the middle and wingers are just wingers.

He doesnt have the strength or the jam to play center imo.

 

[Peace Frog]

I’m not sure I’m interested in how many goals, or assists, or total points any of the big boys get…. in the regular season. The time of paying for regular season success, was for their current contracts. Now they should be more accountable for their lack of playoff success. Their next contracts should heavily reflect that, but we all know it won’t.

This upcoming regular season is going to be so uninteresting to me, unless Treliving adds some really exciting pieces this offseason. I mean guys that want to crash and bang and play with emotion…… you know, like playoff warriors do!

 

[Captain Crunch]

How does 'PP1 time' help his plus rating?

I didn't say it did. It helps his point totals.

Its difficult to understand why people think PP are part of +/-. It's not exactly a new thing.

I didn't say it did. It does, however, help his point totals.

 

[ToneDog]

Turned on Leafs lunch and heard Peter Holland disagree with the Leafs running it back. Says we've seen enough of a sample size. Not sure if it was him or Mike Johnson who also said none of the petit 4 having any grit is a problem. Must have been reading these boards and the geniuses that have been preaching the same thing for years.

 

[ACC1224]

I didn't say it did. It helps his point totals.


I didn't say it did. It does, however, help his point totals.

Perhaps you didn't mean it but obviously we can't read your mind.
We can only go on what is posted and that's what you posted.

PP points shouldn't be seen as a negative anyway.

 

[myleafs]

Turned on Leafs lunch and heard Peter Holland disagree with the Leafs running it back. Says we've seen enough of a sample size. Not sure if it was him or Mike Johnson who also said none of the petit 4 having any grit is a problem. Must have been reading these boards and the geniuses that have been preaching the same thing for years.

We all see it and every other hockey fan in the universe sees it.

 

[Captain Crunch]

Perhaps you didn't mean it but obviously we can't read your mind.
We can only go on what is posted and that's what you posted.

PP points shouldn't be seen as a negative anyway.

My apologies, I did say that. I guess I need to proofread my replies before I post them. I agree, PP points should not be counted as a negative.
The person I was replying to was comparing Marner and Nylander, both in points, and +/- , playoff totals. My argument was that a lot of Marner's points came in the blowout loss and win against Tampa, as well as the extra PP time he gets (which helps boost his point totals).

 

[bodechek]

l'd trade one just to send a message. l don't expect either of them to put in the extra effort if/ when they sign their next deal in TO.

I agree, you will get the most return from a Marner trade than Nylander. I know there are some people here saying you will not get the same point production from the trade, but that is not what you are looking for. The team needs someone with an edge that will push the team over the top like the Tkachuk trade did for the Panthers. You won't get that from Marner, he bails out on going for a puck to avoid a hit. It pissed me off when he did that against Montreal two seasons ago. Bailed on a put because Gallagher was about to check him. And Gallagher was technically shorter than him! The Leafs do NOT need anymore playoff Wusses or perimeter players.

 

[ULF_55]

speak for yourself....doing the same thing and getting the same results again would be about as bad as it can get for me.


He doesnt have the strength or the jam to play center imo.

I'd say it is jam if anything.

Davey played center.

 

[ACC1224]

He doesnt have the strength or the jam to play center imo.

If Barzal, for example, can play Center, Marner would have no problem being strong enough to play there.
With Tavares and Matthews, there hasn't been a need for Marner or Nylander to play center.

 

[Captain Crunch]

Its difficult to understand why people think PP are part of +/-. It's not exactly a new thing.

My apologies, I did say that. I guess I need to proofread my replies before I post them. I agree, PP points should not be counted as a negative.
The person I was replying to was comparing Marner and Nylander, both in points, and +/- , playoff totals. My argument was that a lot of Marner's points came in the blowout loss and win against Tampa, as well as the extra PP time he gets (which helps boost his point totals)

 

[thewave]

I agree, you will get the most return from a Marner trade than Nylander. I know there are some people here saying you will not get the same point production from the trade, but that is not what you are looking for. The team needs someone with an edge that will push the team over the top like the Tkachuk trade did for the Panthers. You won't get that from Marner, he bails out on going for a puck to avoid a hit. It pissed me off when he did that against Montreal two seasons ago. Bailed on a put because Gallagher was about to check him. And Gallagher was technically shorter than him! The Leafs do NOT need anymore playoff Wusses or perimeter players.

Agreed. Has term left is wanted by teams and can be retained on to maximize the return. Like it or not Marner is the guy to kickstart a retool

 

[MCR74]

I agree, you will get the most return from a Marner trade than Nylander. I know there are some people here saying you will not get the same point production from the trade, but that is not what you are looking for. The team needs someone with an edge that will push the team over the top like the Tkachuk trade did for the Panthers. You won't get that from Marner, he bails out on going for a puck to avoid a hit. It pissed me off when he did that against Montreal two seasons ago. Bailed on a put because Gallagher was about to check him. And Gallagher was technically shorter than him! The Leafs do NOT need anymore playoff Wusses or perimeter players.

Well said.

I'm not so concerned with getting equal point production from a trade, seeing as neither of these guys show up when it matters most. I get the impression Marner cares more about the cottage than working hard during the post season. It's the same old story every year. Something's gotta give. I strongly doubt his effort will suddenly improve with a bigger paycheque. Let some other team deal with him and Paul.

 

[notDatsyuk]

I agree, you will get the most return from a Marner trade than Nylander. I know there are some people here saying you will not get the same point production from the trade, but that is not what you are looking for. The team needs someone with an edge that will push the team over the top like the Tkachuk trade did for the Panthers. You won't get that from Marner, he bails out on going for a puck to avoid a hit. It pissed me off when he did that against Montreal two seasons ago. Bailed on a put because Gallagher was about to check him. And Gallagher was technically shorter than him! The Leafs do NOT need anymore playoff Wusses or perimeter players.

I think you get a bigger return for Nylander than Marner, as the production difference is small but the cap difference is big.

Having said that, I think keeping Nylander and trading Marner would benefit the team more, for the reasons you mention.

 

[myleafs]

If Barzal, for example, can play Center, Marner would have no problem being strong enough to play there.
With Tavares and Matthews, there hasn't been a need for Marner or Nylander to play center.

He def has the vision for it....during regular season but I believe he would get eaten alive in the playoffs. Can he win a face-off? I know he hasnt done it much but i think his face off % is in the 40's%?

 

[Notsince67]

My apologies, I did say that. I guess I need to proofread my replies before I post them. I agree, PP points should not be counted as a negative.
The person I was replying to was comparing Marner and Nylander, both in points, and +/- , playoff totals. My argument was that a lot of Marner's points came in the blowout loss and win against Tampa, as well as the extra PP time he gets (which helps boost his point totals)

He is the only leaf with a game winning goal in round 2 if you are looking at game impact.
To be clear, Marner has double the 5x5 production of points than Willy and 4x the primary assists.

Driving play is a metric we arent talking about. There is an interesting stat on moneypuck called created xgoals minus actual xgoals.
There are 7 players in the negative.
Rielly #1 in the positives, Marner tied with a few players at #2 with a few players with the forwards including Matthews and Knies

Willy is part of the group of 7. In that group...Tavares, O'Rielly, Kerfoot, Jarnkrok, ZAR and Acciari.
Bunting had a net of zero
So if Willy aint scoring a ton, what was he doing instead of that to drive play? He literally only had 1 more goal than Marner.

 

[Captain Crunch]

He is the only leaf with a game winning goal in round 2 if you are looking at game impact.
To be clear, Marner has double the 5x5 production of points than Willy and 4x the primary assists.

Driving play is a metric we arent talking about. There is an interesting stat on moneypuck called created xgoals minus actual xgoals.
There are 7 players in the negative.
Rielly #1 in the positives, Marner tied with a few players at #2 with a few players with the forwards including Matthews and Knies

Willy is part of the group of 7. In that group...Tavares, O'Rielly, Kerfoot, Jarnkrok, ZAR and Acciari.
Bunting had a net of zero
So if Willy aint scoring a ton, what was he doing instead of that to drive play? He literally only had 1 more goal than Marner.

So are you thinking Marner should stay (I’m sure he is going to anyway)? And depending on how much Matthews wants, plus his term, as well as probably having JT for two more years, then Nylander should be traded? Am I correct in assuming we should get a top 4 dman and a top 9 forward for him! Or more? Or less? If that’s the case, we are probably still needing another top 6 forward, another top 4 dman (unless the latter part of the season and playoffs was a one off on Brodie).
And I guess we basically bring most of the boys back until JT’s contract comes off the books.
I know I’m assuming a lot. I guess we’ll just have to wait and see how the summer, the draft, and next season play out.
One thing for sure, though, I have a better feeling heading into this offseason with Tree than I would if we still had Dubas.

 

[ACC1224]

He def has the vision for it....during regular season but I believe he would get eaten alive in the playoffs. Can he win a face-off? I know he hasnt done it much but i think his face off % is in the 40's%?

He's elite, if he he worked on faceoffs he'd be fine.

 

[NVious]

He is the only leaf with a game winning goal in round 2 if you are looking at game impact.
To be clear, Marner has double the 5x5 production of points than Willy and 4x the primary assists.

Driving play is a metric we arent talking about. There is an interesting stat on moneypuck called created xgoals minus actual xgoals.
There are 7 players in the negative.
Rielly #1 in the positives, Marner tied with a few players at #2 with a few players with the forwards including Matthews and Knies

Willy is part of the group of 7. In that group...Tavares, O'Rielly, Kerfoot, Jarnkrok, ZAR and Acciari.
Bunting had a net of zero
So if Willy aint scoring a ton, what was he doing instead of that to drive play? He literally only had 1 more goal than Marner.

Paul, Mitchy has 10 goals in 50 playoff games all while being less than ppg all for the low cost of 11 millon dollars, nobody cares about your insane spin. How much "better" he is than Nylander is offset by his cost, so log off and go and enjoy some of your son's money. I'm sure he'll get 12+ million next contract too, so don't worry about these boards so much.

 

[Notsince67]

Paul, Mitchy has 10 goals in 50 playoff games all while being less than ppg all for the low cost of 11 millon dollars, nobody cares about your insane spin. How much "better" he is than Nylander is offset by his cost, so log off and go and enjoy some of your son's money. I'm sure he'll get 12+ million next contract too, so don't worry about these boards so much.

Nylander will never love you despite the shrine you keep

 

[Farsailor]

The soft label is backed by nothing other anecdotal speculation. Not so for your idol Nylander. There is nothing redeeming about a player who doesn't hit at all, never blocks and only achieves more goals because he shoots at net significantly more even with a lower conversion percentage. Marners play setups is not stat padding. He is involved in more goals than most people in the league. Nylander on the other hand will accept the work of others as evidenced through actions like blown zones and shoot whether there is a look or not.
He almost never finishes a check.
Marner is a glue playmaker. Nylander is a playmaker's vampire. There is a reason why there is a discrepancy in minutes, deployment and yes...even salary.

Wow this post. If there is one player on the Leafs that only celebrate when he has a point on the goal, who stays out too long every time in the end of games in order to pick up an empty net point, who cries in the penalty box, it is your boy Mitch. From my point of view Nylander seem to really care for the team, Marner only seem to care about his own individual stats. (And now when we have the shooting % sorted, adjusted for all of Mitchs empty netters, you might want to take that back).

 

[NVious]

Nylander will never love you despite the shrine you keep

How is Mitch as a son? Does he appreciate your shilling?

 

[Willchel Marlynder]

If Barzal, for example, can play Center, Marner would have no problem being strong enough to play there.
With Tavares and Matthews, there hasn't been a need for Marner or Nylander to play center.

Watching JT this playoffs is all I need to see to know there is a need for another 2nd line centre. If it's not Marner or Nylander that's fine, but it's gotta be someone because JT at centre is a disaster in the playoffs.