The Core Has To Go

[rumman]

Dubas kneecapped us perpetualy the minute he took over in the goaltending department.

Would be real nice to have a legit goalie

it would be real nice to have the cap room for a quality goalie.............

If AM, JT and MM scored just two more goals in those 5 games, we might be winning 1-0 in the Cup Finals against Vegas.

As to why they got to play in the 2nd round, that’s bc the top 3 guys played and produced like the top 3 guys. You are really not helping with your own argument if you want to say that they played their part.

if IF's and BUT's were candy and nuts everyday would be christmas.............

 

[notDatsyuk]

The comment made was that marner had too many points in 2 games with Tampa and the poster chose to exclude them because they were apparently not impactful enough because they were a big loss and a big win. Now you apparently are OK with this exclusion and point to the games Willy scored where they lost because....just because...?

Nothing at all like that. You mentioned a single stat from a very small sample (5 games) and I mentioned another stat from the same sample, and suggested that it was too small a sample to be particularly relevant. I didn't point to the games where he scored or where we lost - I used your game sample.

 

[rumman]

Let's pretend for a moment that none of the core 4 deserve any criticism for their commitment to win in the playoffs. It has to be obvious that the salary allocation to 4 forwards is out of whack and will be even worse after the players get their extensions.

they do, and it is...........

 

[Notsince67]

Nothing at all like that. You mentioned a single stat from a very small sample (5 games) and I mentioned another stat from the same sample, and suggested that it was too small a sample to be particularly relevant. I didn't point to the games where he scored or where we lost - I used your game sample.

I was responding to a selective exclusion

 

[rumman]

I have been having this type of discussions with a couple of posters here since the Habs series.
One of the things is that we are not in the locker room with these guys, thus I don’t know how they were acting when the going got tough….who stood up and who hid in the shadows waiting for someone to lead.

When some suggest bring them back, it is really bringing back the Big 5 bc ROR made it quite clear he is not coming back and quite frankly, I really don’t think the Leafs can get a more talented team on paper than the one we had since TDL. Kerfoot, Holl and Bunting priced themselves out, Bunting will be miss the most.

To me, beside the obvious Murray, JT is the obvious choice bc he really doesn’t provide a lot of intangibles and the fact that he openly stated he doesn’t mind moving to LW just made his case worst.
TJ is another player whom I think should be move and get someone more physical and take the bumps along the boards.

When it comes AM, MM and Willie. Assuming they all want to be here on reasonable contracts like AM at 12.5mil instead of 14mil. When it comes to trading them, it really depends on who is coming back. Trading AM means a 1C has to be coming back our way. With MM and Willie, there are more flexibility with Centering a Dman coming our way with another forward. In Willie case, it will be harder bc his caphit is at 7mil.

To answer your question, I am against trades for the sake of trades or blow it up bc I don’t think this team is at the blow up stage. Rather the boys need to know that this is it, Cup or Bust. None of them said anything remotely to Cup or Bust and to me, that’s a huge concern. To me, if one or more of the big four are traded, one of the player, if not all players, coming back need to be vocal leaders and HATE losing. I mean, he must be an a****le but he cares about winning and make others follow.
I really think having Marleau around screwed their mindset, and that’s something that even Lou and Babs didn’t expect.

how much failure does one need to realize this won't work.............

 

[notDatsyuk]

I was responding to a selective exclusion

So we're agreeing - good to know.

 

[rumman]

I feel for Nylander. Straddled with Eeyore as his center for years. Nylander is usually dynamite playing for Sweden, so it wouldn't surprise if he really shines in the right situation.

that's how bad things are in Leaf land, people are feeling sorry for 88...........

Anybody who knew anything about hockey knew that. It is why many were calling for the head of the guy who had visions of blue and white smurfs hoisting the Cup. What still puzzles me is that Shanny wanted to continue the charade. I just hope whatever spell Dubas had Shanny under is gone, cause if Shanny still believes it, we are doomed.

Except the worst, hope for the best. The pain is more tolerable.

word........

 

[arso40]

that's how bad things are in Leaf land, people are feeling sorry for 88...........

What’s your issue with Willy?he seems like the only one who’s not afraid of the moment and his combination of speed and skill is a game breaker he looked pretty good with X factor and knies as his line mates two defensive sound two way players everyone knows he’s not the problem its the 11 million dollar captain that’s holding this team bac

 

[rumman]

My opinion is a mini rebuild. Matthews and 28 to Anaheim for 2nd overall, Mintyukov, and Mctavish and their 2nd round pick. We get their 1st round pick lottery protected next year if he resigns.
Marner to Columbus for 3rd overall, David Jiricek, Kent Johnson, Sean Kuraly and Next year's 1st Top 5 protected.
Nylander to Minnesota for their 1st, Ryan O' Rourke, Markus Foligno

bold moves, I've heard worse.........

 

[rumman]

Not sure. I just hope they play hard ball with these guys, although, I know they won't.

 

[rumman]

When I was a kid, I really wanted a bicycle.

So I prayed to God every day for one. Then I realized that's not how God works. So I beat someone up and stole his.

Asked for God's forgiveness after.

That's the problem with this core. They do too much praying to win. Not enough bullying and stealing of games.

They've become the laughing stock of the NHL as a result.

It's gotten to the point everybody's waiting for them to fail. So we can all laugh at them again. Always aiming to please their fans, the Leafs continue to do exactly that.

Fail.

If human beings are the most intelligent living creatures in the universe, then God aimed low. Our species is so wretched that praying for others to fail has become a sport in and of itself. Then thanking God after that it wasn't us He shafted.

So long as it's somebody else's bicycle that got stolen.

yup, you've reached rock bottom when 99 is making jokes about you................

 

[myleafs]

You need to at least have a conversation with him about what needs to be done.
Let him know that his friend marner may have to be traded to keep him.
He'll Tampa won 2 cups and traded one of there best dman a different gm and culture.

Championship teams like the Hawks and Tampa had to trade/let players walk after winning and it seems we are just about at that point but without the winning or championships part.....sigh.

 

[ToneDog]

Championship teams like the Hawks and Tampa had to trade/let players walk after winning and it seems we are just about at that point but without the winning or championships part.....sigh.

We've already let Hyman, Soup, Lub, Mikheyev and others walk for cap space.

 

[myleafs]

Nylander's Leaf fate may be tied to his next asking price in combination to what Toronto is willing to give Matthews.

If Matthews asks for 3-5 years at $13-14 mil per and you already have JT at $11 and Marner at $10.9 mil X 2 years each, then how much cap space is there for Nylander?

You have to think coming off a 40 goal season and finishing 2nd in Leafs scoring that he is going to want his salary approaching his teammates.

They can pay 34 15 milly on his next contract but we still have the 3 amigos under contract this coming year so my fear (and others) is that the leafs just run it back one more time and let the chips fall where they do at the end of next season.

 

[Trapper]

that's how bad things are in Leaf land, people are feeling sorry for 88...........


word........

I expect Nylander to walk for nothing. It wouldn’t surprise me. Go play with his brother in Pittsburgh and get a nice contract from the master contract giver.

 

[myleafs]

We've already let Hyman, Soup, Lub, Mikheyev and others walk for cap space.

True but Im talking more about the better players...Buff, The whole 3rd line of Tampa etc....other than Hyman those others dont move the needle much if at all for me.

 

[Trapper]

We've already let Hyman, Soup, Lub, Mikheyev and others walk for cap space.

Remember when our depth had Brown on the 4th line? Now it has Kerfoot on the 2nd.
We’ve expended assets twice as fast as we’ve made them.

 

[myleafs]

how much failure does one need to realize this won't work.............

A LOT apparently

 

[Mess]

They can pay 34 15 milly on his next contract but we still have the 3 amigos under contract this coming year so my fear (and others) is that the leafs just run it back one more time and let the chips fall where they do at the end of next season.

That is the most likely scenario in fact..

Priority #1 Matthews new deal, and then the Leafs have all season to decide Nylander's fate up to the trade deadline. He most likely would become an own rental for next year's playoffs even if there is a possibility he walks away for free.

A new GM coming in and instantly trading a fan favourite in WIlly is not going to make a lot of fans in Leaf Nation nor even on the Leafs team, by upsetting the apple cart.

So use the cap space gained from the 10 UFAs to reshape the team for next year and then brace for the summer of 2024.

The one exception I could see happening is if Treliving could use Willy in trade to land a star #1 goalie like say Connor Hellebuyck and sign him.. Fans would miss Nylander but understand the importance of building form the net out with a proven NHL goalie.

 

[socko]

I expect Nylander to walk for nothing. It wouldn’t surprise me. Go play with his brother in Pittsburgh and get a nice contract from the master contract giver.

The funny part is the Pitts fans think Dubas is good news. Oh are they ever in for a surprise.

 

[Superstar]

That is the most likely scenario in fact..

Priority #1 Matthews new deal, and then the Leafs have all season to decide Nylander's fate up to the trade deadline. He most likely would become an own rental for next year's playoffs even if there is a possibility he walks away for free.

A new GM coming in and instantly trading a fan favourite in WIlly is not going to make a lot of fans in Leaf Nation nor even on the Leafs team, by upsetting the apple cart.

So use the cap space gained from the 10 UFAs to reshape the team for next year and then brace for the summer of 2024.

The one exception I could see happening is if Treliving could use Willy in trade to land a star #1 goalie like say Connor Hellebuyck and sign him.. Fans would miss Nylander but understand the importance of building form the net out with a proven NHL goalie.

I don't think we need Willy to be an own rental...if he doesn't want to re-sign with the Leafs, work out a deal with a team who he's willing to sign an extension with and get a good young player who could step in and play.

 

[Stephen]

Remember when our depth had Brown on the 4th line? Now it has Kerfoot on the 2nd.
We’ve expended assets twice as fast as we’ve made them.

Though ironically guys like Kapanen, Johnsson, Brown have proven to be no great shakes, so we could reunite that band if we really wanted to. Party like it's 2018. Probably grab JVR cheap too.

 

[thewave]

I don't think we need Willy to be an own rental...if he doesn't want to re-sign with the Leafs, work out a deal with a team who he's willing to sign an extension with and get a good young player who could step in and play.

We are back to Dave Nonis years now. Own rental is about the dumbest thing a team can do. The name of the game is extract asset value from everything you can. Losing asset value is a L. I had a pretty comprehensive post about this years ago.

I think it was get old to get young. The basic premise was in a situation as we are now, trade for picks and prospects 1-3 years out and replace them with JT ROR aged guys short term. If Matthews doesn't commit trade and Marner and Willy too. Bring in ROR on an overpay and whoever else you can lure. Keep the team productive enough to keep other assets valuable and trade along the way.

This was a strategy I thought up for Toronto because of MLSE reluctance to tank. I figured it a decent compromise.

 

[ULF_55]

I expect Nylander to walk for nothing. It wouldn’t surprise me. Go play with his brother in Pittsburgh and get a nice contract from the master contract giver.

I think he (Nylander) would sign a reasonable contract for a 40 goal PPG player.

Marner not so much.

All star break Nylander stays in Toronto getting on the ice.

 

[Mess]

I think he (Nylander) would sign a reasonable contract for a 40 goal PPG player.

Marner not so much.

All star break Nylander stays in Toronto getting on the ice.

Mitch got 10.9 mil on his last deal most 4 X RFA years.

Willy scores 40 goals and finishes 2nd in Leafs scoring and asks for $9.5 mil min.

Matthews at $13-14 and Nylander at $9.5 and Marner looking for a big raise looks unmanageable going forward.