The Core Has To Go

[Menzinger]

I think he (Nylander) would sign a reasonable contract for a 40 goal PPG player.

Marner not so much.

All star break Nylander stays in Toronto getting on the ice.

I also think Nylander's extension will likely be the easiest. He'll almost certainly push for 8 years of term, and there's fairly clear comparables or similar players. The team will then just have to decide if they want to pay or not.

The biggest obstacle for him I think is if the draw for bigger opportunity on another team is more alluring, but of course that's just speculation. At the moment I think he's extended the summer. And Shanny gets Pridham to work his magic to fit everyone under the cap until they get JT off the book in July of 2026.

 

[baton elevated]

This country club bunch will never play the proper hockey to win meaningful games.
Too bad and sad really. This is the most talent the Leafs have ever had. They would have been immortalized......God status for life. Instead they will be vilified. We had expectations because of all that skill. Sigh, disappointed more than anything.

 

[ULF_55]

Mitch got 10.9 mil on his last deal most 4 X RFA years.

Willy scores 40 goals and finishes 2nd in Leafs scoring and asks for $9.5 mil min.

Matthews at $13-14 and Nylander at $9.5 and Marner looking for a big raise looks unmanageable going forward.

Treliving can move 2 of the Three Double Digits until July 1st.

His choice.

No finger pointing required.

 

[Trapper]

Mitch got 10.9 mil on his last deal most 4 X RFA years.

Willy scores 40 goals and finishes 2nd in Leafs scoring and asks for $9.5 mil min.

Matthews at $13-14 and Nylander at $9.5 and Marner looking for a big raise looks unmanageable going forward.

Is it really a good idea to have Matthews and Marner as the highest paid players in the NHL? If Matthews is set to become that, Marner won’t be far behind. So are these 2 guys so far above all the rest (with playoff success) that it’s a good idea? It’s probably best to have 1 double digit guy and then a balanced team from the net out.

 

[usernamezrhardtodo]

Mitch got 10.9 mil on his last deal most 4 X RFA years.

Willy scores 40 goals and finishes 2nd in Leafs scoring and asks for $9.5 mil min.

Matthews at $13-14 and Nylander at $9.5 and Marner looking for a big raise looks unmanageable going forward.

If you keep AM and unless he is extremely reasonable on his next deal...you need to trade Marner because he will want almost the same money. I hope AM realizes that he is not going to play with MM long term. They just cannot be together when MM has little brother syndrome and wants whatever AM gets.

 

[Boxscore]

Produce what exactly? What is it that these players produce that Matthews and Marner dont? Let's all get down to your definition of the word produce.

Is this a trick question? I'm talking about producing in the playoffs. The comment was made that Matthews and Marner suffer from "being the focus of the opposition." Well, all the guys I named are also the focus of the opposition, yet they manage to produce and lead their teams beyond a single round win in 7 years. Some have been key contributors during Cup wins.

Below are each of the player's career PPG in the playoffs and their cap hit.

1. Leon Draisaitl - 1.6 / ($8.5, ranked, ranked 11th)
2. Connor McDavid - 1.53 / ($12.5, ranked 2nd)
3. Nate MacKinnon - 1.31 / (12.6, ranked 1st) + Cup
4. Mikko Rantanen - 1.24 / ($9.25, ranked 10th) + Cup
5. Nikita Kuckerov - 1.13 / ($9.5, ranked t7th) + Cup
6. David Pastrnak - 1.11 / ($11, ranked 4th)
7. Brayden Point - 1 / ($9.5, ranked t7th) + Cup
8. *Mitch Marner - 0.94 / ($10.9, ranked 5th)
9. *Auston Matthews - 0.88 / ($11.6, ranked 3rd)
10. Matthew Tkachuk - 0.82 / ($9.5, ranked t7th) + Cup Finals w/ points on 8 of 12 GWG this Yr.
11. Aleksander Barkov - 0.81 / ($10, ranked 6th) + Cup Finals
12. *William Nylander - 0.8 / ($6.9, ranked 12th)

Notice how our guys are all towards the bottom of the list when it comes to playoff production (and rounds won) but towards the top for salaries -- other than Nylander who is the best value on the club for his production.

Our guys (playoff scoring):
8th
9th
12th

Our guys (cap hit):
3rd
5th
12th

Could you imagine Auston Matthews being down at the bottom, scoring at well under a ppg in the playoffs and demanding to be paid $14 mil a pop? Lmao.

 

[Antropovsky]

This country club bunch will never play the proper hockey to win meaningful games.
Too bad and sad really. This is the most talent the Leafs have ever had. They would have been immortalized......God status for life. Instead they will be vilified. We had expectations because of all that skill. Sigh, disappointed more than anything.

Matthews shouldn't be grouped with the rest. He had 5.25, blocked shots per 60 which was the best among any elite forwards. He also had 38 hits, which puts him top 23, he'd be higher if it was h/60. Not bad for maybe the 2nd best player in the world.

 

[Boxscore]

Matthews shouldn't be grouped with the rest. He had 5.25, blocked shots per 60 which was the best among any elite forwards. He also had 38 hits, which puts him top 23, he'd be higher if it was h/60. Not bad for maybe the 2nd best player in the world.

2nd best player in the world? On what planet? Honestly.

 

[Racer88]

Matthews shouldn't be grouped with the rest. He had 5.25, blocked shots per 60 which was the best among any elite forwards. He also had 38 hits, which puts him top 23, he'd be higher if it was h/60. Not bad for maybe the 2nd best player in the world.

His 38 hits has to be padded. When is the last time you remember him just flat out smoking a guy……..little bumps along the boards or in the corner are fake hits kinda like expected goals

 

[Boxscore]

His 38 hits has to be padded. When is the last time you remember him just flat out smoking a guy……..little bumps along the boards or in the corner are fake hits kinda like expected goals

Never. If you offered me $10 grand cash in a briefcase right now, I couldn't remember one big hit from Matthews in his entire career, let alone playoffs.

 

[Racer88]

Never. If you offered me $10 grand cash in a briefcase right now, I couldn't remember one big hit from Matthews in his entire career, let alone playoffs.

Me either. He is one of the softest big guy out there

 

[ponder]

This country club bunch will never play the proper hockey to win meaningful games.
Too bad and sad really. This is the most talent the Leafs have ever had. They would have been immortalized......God status for life. Instead they will be vilified. We had expectations because of all that skill. Sigh, disappointed more than anything.

Worth noting, a sizeable group of Leafs fans has been saying the exact same thing about the Leafs every year for as long as I can remember, at least the last 20+ years. Many, many different groups of players, but always the same comments. Is it really that the Leafs have just been overly soft/lazy/country-clubby for 20+ straight years, or is it simply the first explanation some fans reach for when we lose?

FWIW, this playoffs we outhit the Panthers, and were only a hair behind the Lightning.

 

[Boxscore]

Worth noting, a sizeable group of Leafs fans has been saying the exact same thing about the Leafs every year for as long as I can remember, at least the last 20+ years. Many, many different groups of players, but always the same comments. Is it really that the Leafs have just been overly soft/lazy/country-clubby for 20+ straight years, or is it simply the first explanation some fans reach for when we lose?

FWIW, this playoffs we outhit the Panthers, and were only a hair behind the Lightning.

I truly believe, in terms of softness, this current group is the softest, laziest, spoiled bunch in club history by far. After underachieving for the 5th year in a row in the playoffs, the players biggest complaint in the offseason was the dress code. Yeah, this team is soft as Kleenex.

 

[baton elevated]

Worth noting, a sizeable group of Leafs fans has been saying the exact same thing about the Leafs every year for as long as I can remember, at least the last 20+ years. Many, many different groups of players, but always the same comments. Is it really that the Leafs have just been overly soft/lazy/country-clubby for 20+ straight years, or is it simply the first explanation some fans reach for when we lose?

FWIW, this playoffs we outhit the Panthers, and were only a hair behind the Lightning.

The country club comment was directed to the core since this is the title of piece we are talking about. They didn't hit a fly.
There were some non country club teams here, they are usually the less skilled bunch.

 

[egd27]

Remember when our depth had Brown on the 4th line? Now it has Kerfoot on the 2nd.
We’ve expended assets twice as fast as we’ve made them.

Seth Jarvis wouldn't look bad in the Blue and White either.

 

[Trapper]

His 38 hits has to be padded. When is the last time you remember him just flat out smoking a guy……..little bumps along the boards or in the corner are fake hits kinda like expected goals

To be complete it’s not just hits, it’s taking hits. Are you in on the wall in the scrum? Puck battles? Down low? Making the play under pressure? Getting bumped, hacked, pushed and shoved? Are you in the action or just a step outside it? You lose the battle by a step? Lose the race by a step? Play further back? Shoot from further out? These things as well.

 

[Boxscore]

Seth Jarvis wouldn't look bad in the Blue and White either.

I was saying that to a buddy not too long ago. We need players with some jam like Jarvis, Konecny, etc.

 

[ponder]

The country club comment was directed to the core since this is the title of piece we are talking about. They didn't hit a fly.
There were some non country club teams here, they are usually the less skilled bunch.

In 11 playoffs games:
- Matthews: 38 hits, 2nd among Leafs forwards
- Tavares: 26 hits, 3rd among Leafs forwards
- Marner: 18 hits, tied for 6th (with Kampf) among Leafs forwards
- Nylander: 3 hits, last among Leafs forwards

That comment is true about Nylander, but not the rest. Matthews/JT/Marner were playing physical, Matthews especially. And personally I thought Nylander was competing hard and playing well too, he just doesn't hit.

IMO I saw the Leafs leave it all out on the ice this year, full effort/compete throughout the playoffs, just didn't get it done. It's hard to go deep in the playoffs - only 4 teams went further than the Leafs.

 

[Boxscore]

In 11 playoffs games:
- Matthews: 38 hits, 2nd among Leafs forwards
- Tavares: 26 hits, 3rd among Leafs forwards
- Marner: 18 hits, tied for 6th (with Kampf) among Leafs forwards
- Nylander: 3 hits, last among Leafs forwards

That comment is true about Nylander, but not the rest. Matthews/JT/Marner were playing physical, Matthews especially.

I dunno, that sure looks like a paper stat. I still remember hits Wendel Clark threw 30 years ago but can't remember a single hit that Matthews, Tavares, Marner, and Nylander threw combined. And I'm not being facetious.

That said, these guys aren't being paid to throw hits, their job is to score. And Matthews 0.88 ppg in the playoffs is abysmal tbh.

 

[Racer88]

To be complete it’s not just hits, it’s taking hits. Are you in on the wall in the scrum? Puck battles? Down low? Making the play under pressure? Getting bumped, hacked, pushed and shoved? Are you in the action or just a step outside it? You lose the battle by a step? Lose the race by a step? Play further back? Shoot from further out? These things as well.

Absolutely but nothing make a statement like a massive smash down

 

[ponder]

I dunno, that sure looks like a paper stat. I still remember hits Wendel Clark threw 30 years ago but can't remember a single hit that Matthews, Tavares, Marner, and Nylander threw combined. And I'm not being facetious.

That said, these guys aren't being paid to throw hits, their job is to score. And Matthews 0.88 ppg in the playoffs is abysmal tbh.

I mean, how many super memorable hits have there been all playoffs, for any team? Tkachuk on Eichel is the only one burned into my memory this year. Playoff hockey is very physical, there's like 1-2 hits per minute, they all blend together in my memory about 10 minutes after the game.

Matthews rarely destroys people, but he lays solid bodychecks regularly. Also super effective in the danger areas, constantly winning battles along the boards and in front of the net. He's one of the best in the league at absorbing contact while keeping control of the puck and/or winning the puck.

 

[Racer88]

If you want to see real hits not paper stat hits just watch the 2 teams that made it to the finals……..big rough and nasty.
Its no coincidence that two teams like that made it to the finals

 

[Trapper]

I mean, how many super memorable hits have there been all playoffs, for any team? Tkachuk on Eichel is the only one burned into my memory this year. Playoff hockey is very physical, there's like 1-2 hits per minute, they all blend together in my memory about 10 minutes after the game.

Matthews rarely destroys people, but he lays solid bodychecks regularly. Also super effective in the danger areas, constantly winning battles along the boards and in front of the net. He's one of the best in the league at absorbing contact while keeping control of the puck and/or winning the puck.

Matthews needs a different support cast. Especially for the money they make.
MacKinnon had bigger bodied skill around him, Eichel isn’t small but has men around him. Tkachuk has been a great add but Barkov and Bennett aren’t boys either.
The core needs to change.

 

[Mess]

Treliving can move 2 of the Three Double Digits until July 1st.

His choice.

No finger pointing required.

What if Treliving could get the 4th Musketeer the one with the NMC to waive it?

Hey JT how would you like to play LW for Sidney Crosby next year?

 

[Superstar]

If you want to see real hits not paper stat hits just watch the 2 teams that made it to the finals……..big rough and nasty.
Its no coincidence that two teams like that made it to the finals

Nah, Dubas was right all along, even managed to convince Babcock for a short while...build a buttery soft, skilled team and carry the mantra "our powerplay is our toughness..."