The Core Has To Go

[Dreakmur]

They could trade them - Matthews still has a year and Marner has 2.

The can’t trade them unless the player is willing to move. Those NMCs make it tough to apply leverage.

 

[ORRFForever]

The can’t trade them unless the player is willing to move. Those NMCs make it tough to apply leverage.

Matthews NMC doesn't kick in until July 1, 2023.
Marner : July 1, 2024 - altho, I'm not sure about Marner's.

 

[Dreakmur]

Matthews NMC doesn't kick in until July 1st.

So we’re going to trade a non-extended Matthews to a team who will then face the exact problem we traded him to avoid. How much return would you expect for him as a distressed asset? You’re not getting anything close to full value, so this tactic doesn’t really provide much leverage for the playing of hardball.

 

[Notsince67]

Yes I am aware of this team game. It's called failure under pressure. That's the Mitch and Matthews leadership right there, failure. It's not got it done and with JT they make up 3 of top 7 cap players in the league. Do some basic math, 3 of 7 top paid players in a league of 32 teams can not get past 1st round most often, lucked their way through it 1 single time and practically got swept. Fantastic players they must be.

You should alias change to Dekes for Marner. Marner is a showy stat padding player that does not score. He's soft, the kind of player that the guy in your profile pic laughed at.

The soft label is backed by nothing other anecdotal speculation. Not so for your idol Nylander. There is nothing redeeming about a player who doesn't hit at all, never blocks and only achieves more goals because he shoots at net significantly more even with a lower conversion percentage. Marners play setups is not stat padding. He is involved in more goals than most people in the league. Nylander on the other hand will accept the work of others as evidenced through actions like blown zones and shoot whether there is a look or not.
He almost never finishes a check.
Marner is a glue playmaker. Nylander is a playmaker's vampire. There is a reason why there is a discrepancy in minutes, deployment and yes...even salary.

 

[TMLBlueandWhite]

When I was a kid, I really wanted a bicycle.

So I prayed to God every day for one. Then I realized that's not how God works. So I beat someone up and stole his.

Asked for God's forgiveness after.

That's the problem with this core. They do too much praying to win. Not enough bullying and stealing of games.

They've become the laughing stock of the NHL as a result.

It's gotten to the point everybody's waiting for them to fail. So we can all laugh at them again. Always aiming to please their fans, the Leafs continue to do exactly that.

Fail.

If human beings are the most intelligent living creatures in the universe, then God aimed low. Our species is so wretched that praying for others to fail has become a sport in and of itself. Then thanking God after that it wasn't us He shafted.

So long as it's somebody else's bicycle that got stolen.

 

[Notsince67]

Matthews NMC doesn't kick in until July 1, 2023.
Marner : July 1, 2024 - altho, I'm not sure about Marner's.

Marners kicks in the same time

 

[ULF_55]

The soft label is backed by nothing other anecdotal speculation. Not so for your idol Nylander. There is nothing redeeming about a player who doesn't hit at all, never blocks and only achieves more goals because he shoots at net significantly more even with a lower conversion percentage. Marners play setups is not stat padding. He is involved in more goals than most people in the league. Nylander on the other hand will accept the work of others as evidenced through actions like blown zones and shoot whether there is a look or not.
He almost never finishes a check.
Marner is a glue playmaker. Nylander is a playmaker's vampire. There is a reason why there is a discrepancy in minutes, deployment and yes...even salary.

What isn't anecdotal is his performance in big series.

But perhaps it isn't marner, perhaps it is marner trying to setup Matthews?

Setting up Matthews throughout the Montreal series and they get 1 goal.
Setting up Matthews throughout the Florida series and they get 1 goal, and it was marner's.

That combination has had extreme failures in the post season, but maybe it is Keefe and Matthews who are the failures?

 

[thewave]

What isn't anecdotal is his performance in big series.

But perhaps it isn't marner, perhaps it is marner trying to setup Matthews?

Setting up Matthews throughout the Montreal series and they get 1 goal.
Setting up Matthews throughout the Florida series and they get 1 goal, and it was marner's.

That combination has had extreme failures in the post season, but maybe it is Keefe and Matthews who are the failures?

ULF, we need to rely on the eye test here. When Marner is pressured he coughs up the puck, if it were Jake Gardiner doing the same things as Mitch lately, he would and actually was run out of town. It's not at all different. These teams aren't playing with this intensity in regular season, taking away time and space, once that's gone the spin-o-rama back pass isn't working. Just like the roundhouse in a fight, people see it coming a mile away because they read his shoulders.

The reason it doesn't work is because he tries to play as DC used to say, too cute when cute doesn't cut it. The main issue is he has no physical presence to change up the game and just gets eliminated as a threat.

 

[thewave]

The soft label is backed by nothing other anecdotal speculation. Not so for your idol Nylander. There is nothing redeeming about a player who doesn't hit at all, never blocks and only achieves more goals because he shoots at net significantly more even with a lower conversion percentage. Marners play setups is not stat padding. He is involved in more goals than most people in the league. Nylander on the other hand will accept the work of others as evidenced through actions like blown zones and shoot whether there is a look or not.
He almost never finishes a check.
Marner is a glue playmaker. Nylander is a playmaker's vampire. There is a reason why there is a discrepancy in minutes, deployment and yes...even salary.

It's backed by him ditching the puck constantly when under pressure. To the point he sent a suicide pass to our real Star player.

Nylander was blocking some shots btw. He did hit the deck on some hits, of course Nylander is not the perfect power forward (lol) but he gets the zone. That's what he does best, gets the zone when you need it.

Great so glad Marner is involved in so many goals, it helps to play with possibly the best scorer, Adam Oates ring a bell?

I will take 8.8m Nylander for 8 years over whatever Marner is going to ask, 13m? 500k less than whatever Matthews asks? No thanks.

He is not at all glue, the guy cries in the box and whines like a baby in the media. No it's ok, that's not glue, Gary Roberts was glue, the cement truck to which you build a foundation upon. Sundin was a Glue guy, Dougie, Clark not this kid. No way.

 

[ULF_55]

ULF, we need to rely on the eye test here. When Marner is pressured he coughs up the puck, if it were Jake Gardiner doing the same things as Mitch lately, he would and actually was run out of town. It's not at all different. These teams aren't playing with this intensity taking away time and space, once that's gone the spin-o-rama back pass isn't working. Just like the roundhouse in a fight, people see it coming a mile away because they read his shoulders.

The reason it doesn't work is because he tries to play as DC used to say, too cute when cute doesn't cut it. The main issue is he has no physical presence to change up the game and just gets eliminated as a threat.

Maybe he's doing all the Junior A stuff because he's looking for Matthews?
While he's a veteran, he could still alter his game.
He has great edge work, but no way does he have the skating power of Nylander, nor does he have the ability to get pucks from scrums as well.

 

[ULF_55]

It's backed by him ditching the puck constantly when under pressure. To the point he sent a suicide pass to our real Star player.

Nylander was blocking some shots btw. He did hit the deck on some hits, of course Nylander is not the perfect power forward (lol) but he gets the zone. That's what he does best, gets the zone when you need it.

Great so glad Marner is involved in so many goals, it helps to play with possibly the best scorer, Adam Oates ring a bell?

I will take 8.8m Nylander for 8 years over whatever Marner is going to ask, 13m? 500k less than whatever Matthews asks? No thanks.

He is not at all glue, the guy cries in the box and whines like a baby in the media. No it's ok, that's not glue, Gary Roberts was glue, the cement truck to which you build a foundation upon. Sundin was a Glue guy, Dougie, Clark not this kid. No way.

I wouldn't ever think of marner as a glue guy. 200 feet player, sure, glue? Nah, marner's about marner.

Edit:
Funny how you hear Nylander is just going to be a mercenary like his father, but perhaps the more true story is marner is like his father.

 

[ToneDog]

I wouldn't ever think of marner as a glue guy. 100 feet player, sure, glue? Nah, marner's about marner.

They should have started shopping him already. Winnipeg needs a new face of their franchise.

 

[thewave]

Maybe he's doing all the Junior A stuff because he's looking for Matthews?
While he's a veteran, he could still alter his game.
He has great edge work, but no way does he have the skating power of Nylander, nor does he have the ability to get pucks from scrums as well.

I am not a fan of his elimination game performances at all. I don't like his compete and how he loses his composure when it matters most. That turning our brains to shambles comment he made once may be quite telling, or projecting what happens to him personally in some situations.

Agreed he could change and about the edge work etc.

I wouldn't ever think of marner as a glue guy. 100 feet player, sure, glue? Nah, marner's about marner.

I think that's very apparent to majority of fans right now. You don't see Mitch rallying the troops, you don't see him getting in anyones face with conviction or passion. Some of the stuff Marner has been on the ice and witnessed would have had guys like Dougie, Clark, Sundin heck even Dion rushing into the corner and face washing, throwing a shot, getting in the oppositions face putting them on notice. We don't have that, if you really think about it, who do we have that is a glue guy?

I think I have seen more glue type character out of Rielly than the rest of them as far as core goes.

 

[ACC1224]

I wouldn't ever think of marner as a glue guy. 200 feet player, sure, glue? Nah, marner's about marner.

Edit:
Funny how you hear Nylander is just going to be a mercenary like his father, but perhaps the more true story is marner is like his father.

You feel Marner is a 100 foot player? Is that a typo?

 

[Boxscore]

ULF, we need to rely on the eye test here.

To be brutally honest, if we're relying on the eye test, the biggest disappointments for us annually in the playoffs have been:

1A. Matthews
1B. Marner
.
2. Tavares
3. Nylander
.
4. Rielly

I'm not even getting into Keefe yet because that's a whole different discussion. When you have 5 "superstars" making the money these guys are making, they need to find a way to win -- I don't care if they have you or me behind the bench.

 

[ULF_55]

You feel Marner is a 100 foot player? Is that a typo?

He plays in all zones, he's decent enough in all zones.

That doesn't make him unique though.

I think there might be career regret when all is said and done that marner never was able to learn to play center.

 

[disgruntleddave]

Marner is a 200 foot player in the regular season. His play in the D zone is about positioning and reading the play.

He excels because he's capable of slowing down the game. In the regular season.

In the playoffs, trying to slow down the game doesn't work. You have to dial ip everything including speed.

I think we should trade marner, but if we do it may hurt our stance trying to re sign matthews. I'd rather see it blown up than not. Regardless of that I'd prefer a new coach.

If none of these things change, we'll have another season similar to last and probably get our hopes up then lose. It's not the worst thing in the world.

 

[Notsince67]

What isn't anecdotal is his performance in big series.

But perhaps it isn't marner, perhaps it is marner trying to setup Matthews?

Setting up Matthews throughout the Montreal series and they get 1 goal.
Setting up Matthews throughout the Florida series and they get 1 goal, and it was marner's.

That combination has had extreme failures in the post season, but maybe it is Keefe and Matthews who are the failures?

I blame keefe for a lot. The over cycling in the ozone is as predictable as Babcocks stretch passing. Would love to know what the end of season debrief of the players revealed. I believe the reported grumblings were play related over player related.

 

[ACC1224]

He plays in all zones, he's decent enough in all zones.

That doesn't make him unique though.

I think there might be career regret when all is said and done that marner never was able to learn to play center.

If he plays in all zones, which he does, he's a 200 foot player.

He could easily have played center if given the opportunity.

 

[Notsince67]

Marner is a 100 foot player in the regular season. His play in the D zone is about positioning and reading the play.

He excels because he's capable of slowing down the game. In the regular season.

In the playoffs, trying to slow down the game doesn't work. You have to dial ip everything including speed.

I think we should trade marner, but if we do it may hurt our stance trying to re sign matthews. I'd rather see it blown up than not. Regardless of that I'd prefer a new coach.

If none of these things change, we'll have another season similar to last and probably get our hopes up then lose. It's not the worst thing in the world.

This is nonsense. There are all kinds of opportunities to score goals after a Marner zone entry. They literally have more ozone possession than any of the teams they faced. They choose not to pull the trigger. Trying to turn a positive into a negative around here is something I can never understand.

 

[Notsince67]

It's backed by him ditching the puck constantly when under pressure. To the point he sent a suicide pass to our real Star player.

Nylander was blocking some shots btw. He did hit the deck on some hits, of course Nylander is not the perfect power forward (lol) but he gets the zone. That's what he does best, gets the zone when you need it.

Great so glad Marner is involved in so many goals, it helps to play with possibly the best scorer, Adam Oates ring a bell?

I will take 8.8m Nylander for 8 years over whatever Marner is going to ask, 13m? 500k less than whatever Matthews asks? No thanks.

He is not at all glue, the guy cries in the box and whines like a baby in the media. No it's ok, that's not glue, Gary Roberts was glue, the cement truck to which you build a foundation upon. Sundin was a Glue guy, Dougie, Clark not this kid. No way.

Marner dishes suicide passes now? Do you have any clue what those are?
And yeah...pretty sure I know who hall of famer Adam Oates is. A career 1480 pt player was a stat padder now?
And the reality is that you would even take Nylander at par. Who are you trying to kid?

 

[ULF_55]

If he plays in all zones, which he does, he's a 200 foot player.

He could easily have played center if given the opportunity.

Brain fart!

It's too bad he didn't play center, that's strength down the middle and wingers are just wingers.

 

[Boxscore]

you would even take Nylander at par.

Head-to-head, any hockey person takes Marner over Nylander 10x out of 10 imho. That said, there is an argument to be made that once the playoffs come (especially the last two years) that Nylander finds a way to elevate his game, score big goals, and look better when it matters most. And it's not just Marner, it's Matthews too. Does that mean Nylander is a better player than either of them? Of course not. But considering Matthews is likely going to demand to make double Nylander's salary is comical.

 

[ACC1224]

Head-to-head, any hockey person takes Marner over Nylander 10x out of 10 imho. That said, there is an argument to be made that once the playoffs come (especially the last two years) that Nylander finds a way to elevate his game, score big goals, and look better when it matters most. And it's not just Marner, it's Matthews too. Does that mean Nylander is a better player than either of them? Of course not. But considering Matthews is likely going to demand to make double Nylander's salary is an issue.

I wonder how Nylander would look if he was the opponents primary focus like Matthews and Marner are?

 

[disgruntleddave]

This is nonsense. There are all kinds of opportunities to score goals after a Marner zone entry. They literally have more ozone possession than any of the teams they faced. They choose not to pull the trigger. Trying to turn a positive into a negative around here is something I can never understand.

I see what you're saying and agree but only partially. I do feel like marners game translates the least to the playoffs.

Err.. well, maybe tavares since he can't keep up at all.

That being said, I when we watch other teams and they're snapping one timers off of every seeing eye pass, it's clear that we're missing that element. One of the reasons that the perfection line in Boston was so good in the regular season is that guys find each other and they fire one timers all over the place. We have none of that and we'd be well served to focus on that in skills practices.