The Core Has To Go

[WillNy29]

Correct. The Oilers aren't deep and grimy enough to win a Cup right now either but there's no question that 97 and 29 do their jobs. Both score at an explosive pace in the playoffs.

did so much of their jobs that one had 0g 1a and was -7 in his teams final 4 games when they needed him most and the other was Casper the friendly ghost on 5 on 5 in his final 4 games and had 3 power play points and was a -1. Super explosive!

 

[Mr Knies Guy]

Going to take a look at that article, thanks.

For a while, I had been saying the guys really think their regular season is 89games. That changed last playoffs. And then how they played and responded in the 2nd round left me speechless.
To me, if they played the way they did against TB in the 2nd round, like take no crap from the other team and had the pack mentality(Knies and Kampf incident), then come out and take accountability like the Celtics players after Game 3. Not saying I will be fine with the result but I will be on board for let’s bring them back for another go.

No worries, here’s the link:
Kyle Dubas’s new job at the Penguins shows how messy things are getting with the Maple Leafs

Particularly good sections:

‘When people talk about the Leafs’ ‘culture,’ it’s one word covering a variety of sins.

It’s the fact that rookie Matthew Knies gets judo-flipped into the end boards during the playoffs and everyone on the Leafs bench goes, ‘I guess that’s fine.’

It’s the way the Leafs talk after big losses – as though they have no clue what went wrong or how they should feel about it.’

‘It’s their tendency to sulk and whine.

It’s the way they were at locker-clearout day – relieved. Smiles all around. A bunch of pals knocking off work early.

Good teams talk like they know what they’re doing. The Leafs talk like they’re hoping you’ll tell them.

Toronto keeps trying to inject culture into the team like a vaccine. Maybe Mark Giordano carries the culture gene. Or Ryan O’Reilly. Or Luke Schenn. More often than not, newcomers don’t infect the Leafs. The Leafs infect them.’

‘What’s the fuel for the Leafs’ rage? Do they have any of that resource? Because if they do, nobody’s ever seen it. The Leafs are always fine. Win? That feels fine. Lose? That feels fine, too. Lose calamitously? Can’t wait to hit the beach.’

 

[blue stick]

should've went after a $10 million dollar goalie, oh wait.. should've went after a better AHL goalie...

 

[Gabriel426]

did so much of their jobs that one had 0g 1a and was -7 in his teams final 4 games when they needed him most and the other was Casper the friendly ghost on 5 on 5 in his final 4 games and had 3 power play points and was a -1. Super explosive!

hence, that’s why Oilers lost the series. Bc McD and Drai didn’t play like top 2 players in the series like they are capable of.

 

[Gabriel426]

No worries, here’s the link:
Kyle Dubas’s new job at the Penguins shows how messy things are getting with the Maple Leafs

Particularly good sections:

Tend to agree with what he said. AM, MM, JT and Willie might be the only 4 forwards that were on the team from last year opening night roster, while Reilly, Gio, TJ and Lilly(I know he was not but he would had if not for injury) on opening night on D. That’s 8 of 18 players excluding goalies coming back.

So when it comes to calling the forwards core 4, there are some merits to that.

 

[diceman934]

Of course I watch the games. Do you? When has Marner ever delivered in clutch times in the playoffs? Or Nylander or Matthews for that matter? And Marner getting points in blowout games in a win and a loss, means jack shit. He gets PP1 time and more ice time, so why shouldn't he have more points? SMH!!!

Nylander was a minus 3 Maner a plus 7 wining his minutes in the playoffs.

Not that difficult tp see or understand

 

[TMLBlueandWhite]

It sucks making millions of dollars and having your boss scream in your face.

It sucks even more when you make minimum wage.

It's pretty easy to see how this once proud and respected franchise turned into this comedy troop of laughing stock losers. The tail is wagging the dog. Entitled rich kids that think they can do whatever they want.

As soon any coach tries to impose discipline the players turn on him.

They need to grow the hell up. Playing here is a privilege and honour. So you would think repeatedly failing on the worlds largest hockey stage would humble these guys.

Nope, not the Toronto Maple Leafs.

That's what happens when the players become more important than the team. Management are reduced to salesmen. They preach individual accomplishment over team achievements.

These kids are paid millions of dollars, millions, to play a game.

If any spoiled rich hockey players don't want to play hard for the Toronto Maple Leafs they can go somewhere else. Believe it or not, they ARE replaceable. And the Leafs should seriously think about unloading some of these marshmallows.

Bring in some fresh meat.

Players who will stand up for themselves and each other. Who think winning the cup is more important than how much they earn. Guys that will go home after the latest playoffs embarassment and take a good long hard look in the mirror and scream in their own faces to be better.

Instead of crying when the coach has to do it for them.

 

[justashadowof]

Let's pretend for a moment that none of the core 4 deserve any criticism for their commitment to win in the playoffs. It has to be obvious that the salary allocation to 4 forwards is out of whack and will be even worse after the players get their extensions.

 

[thewave]

Nylander was a minus 3 Maner a plus 7 wining his minutes in the playoffs.

Not that difficult tp see or understand

Another example of +/- being used selectively. Depending on the person and time of day +/- means nothing but when it suits them it means everything. What if that -3 was a result of the TB blowout game and otherwise he is even?

Ease up on the gymnastics dicey, we're not hating on your boy Marner here. We know he is better overall but we're also not dopey enough to say Marner is a better goal scorer, or that Marner is a better skater, or Marner is better in high pressure PO games. That and we are also not stupid enough to say that Mitch Marner is worth 4million dollars more than William Nylander.

 

[Trapper]

Treliving made a good point. Why blame just the core 4? Why don't we hold the GM accountable for having Kerfoot at a top 6 forward for large chunks? Justin Holl as a top 4 defenceman for 3 years? Jack Campbell? Petr Mrazek? Matt Murray?

We did.
We said don’t spend half the cap on 4 forward, you won’t have the depth.
Also that we are spending assets (players, picks) faster than we are replenishing them.

 

[justashadowof]

Mitch Marner is a better skater than Nylander. Nylander is faster but not as agile on the skates as Marner is.

I wouldn't be so sure that Marner isn't as good of a goal scorer as Nylander. Marner could score more if he chose to shot more. Marner isn't getting 30% less shots than Nylander because he can't get the looks, he's choosing to set up his linemates.

 

[hullsy47]

The team has been a disappointment to put it mildly. They just don’t have it and while Dubas has moved heaven and earth to keep them together and do Cap Gymnastics putting together version after version of this group they just are winners or the type of players who hate losing more than they like winning. They are regular season superstars and that just doesn’t cut it.

Both AM and Nylander are eligible for contract extensions this summer and it’s my belief that both should be traded because trying to do the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result is the definition of insanity.

Do we again tear it down to the studs or do we keep some players?
IMO Trade:
Am
Nylander
JT-but I don’t think anybody would take him unfortunately
Lafferty
Murray-even if it’s for a coke machine
Brodie

Honestly if we can get Bedard or Fantilli or a player like Byfield plus for AM I do it. I even look at trading him to Zona to get a boatload of picks. We are up against the cap and can’t build a proper team With the type of money AM and Nylander are likely looking for. The great thing is some other team likely is willing to pay a kings ransom for them. This is not an overreaction this core sucks.

Keep
Marner
Reilly
Samsonov
Woll
Liljegren
Timmins
Knies

I guess it comes down to .keep the core at about 50 million or get a core 8 for 50
One more stud dman will do

 

[andora]

I have been having this type of discussions with a couple of posters here since the Habs series.
One of the things is that we are not in the locker room with these guys, thus I don’t know how they were acting when the going got tough….who stood up and who hid in the shadows waiting for someone to lead.

When some suggest bring them back, it is really bringing back the Big 5 bc ROR made it quite clear he is not coming back and quite frankly, I really don’t think the Leafs can get a more talented team on paper than the one we had since TDL. Kerfoot, Holl and Bunting priced themselves out, Bunting will be miss the most.

To me, beside the obvious Murray, JT is the obvious choice bc he really doesn’t provide a lot of intangibles and the fact that he openly stated he doesn’t mind moving to LW just made his case worst.
TJ is another player whom I think should be move and get someone more physical and take the bumps along the boards.

When it comes AM, MM and Willie. Assuming they all want to be here on reasonable contracts like AM at 12.5mil instead of 14mil. When it comes to trading them, it really depends on who is coming back. Trading AM means a 1C has to be coming back our way. With MM and Willie, there are more flexibility with Centering a Dman coming our way with another forward. In Willie case, it will be harder bc his caphit is at 7mil.

To answer your question, I am against trades for the sake of trades or blow it up bc I don’t think this team is at the blow up stage. Rather the boys need to know that this is it, Cup or Bust. None of them said anything remotely to Cup or Bust and to me, that’s a huge concern. To me, if one or more of the big four are traded, one of the player, if not all players, coming back need to be vocal leaders and HATE losing. I mean, he must be an a****le but he cares about winning and make others follow.
I really think having Marleau around screwed their mindset, and that’s something that even Lou and Babs didn’t expect.

This is one of the best posts i read here lately

 

[Farsailor]

Mitch Marner is a better skater than Nylander. Nylander is faster but not as agile on the skates as Marner is.

I wouldn't be so sure that Marner isn't as good of a goal scorer as Nylander. Marner could score more if he chose to shot more. Marner isn't getting 30% less shots than Nylander because he can't get the looks, he's choosing to set up his linemates.

Just no. Marner is many things but he will never have Nylanders snipe.

 

[ULF_55]

Nylander was a minus 3 Maner a plus 7 wining his minutes in the playoffs.

Not that difficult tp see or understand

 

[justashadowof]

Just no. Marner is many things but he will never have Nylanders snipe.

He may not be as deadly from the top of the face off circle but he has a better Shooting % than Nylander.

 

[Farsailor]

He may not be as deadly from the top of the face off circle but he has a better Shooting % than Nylander.

Ok also, around 10% of his goals are empty netters.

 

[RoadWarrior]

Blogspam nonsense.

And thank god. Jones is a decent offensive defenseman with an outsized reputation because he’s big. That contract is awful.

Nylander would make this trade horrific almost immediately.

 

[ToneDog]

Nylander would make this trade horrific almost immediately.

Pens have Alex. Wonder what Dubas would give up to unite the brothers ??

 

[MCR74]

It sucks making millions of dollars and having your boss scream in your face.

It sucks even more when you make minimum wage.

It's pretty easy to see how this once proud and respected franchise turned into this comedy troop of laughing stock losers. The tail is wagging the dog. Entitled rich kids that think they can do whatever they want.

As soon any coach tries to impose discipline the players turn on him.

They need to grow the hell up. Playing here is a privilege and honour. So you would think repeatedly failing on the worlds largest hockey stage would humble these guys.

Nope, not the Toronto Maple Leafs.

That's what happens when the players become more important than the team. Management are reduced to salesmen. They preach individual accomplishment over team achievements.

These kids are paid millions of dollars, millions, to play a game.

If any spoiled rich hockey players don't want to play hard for the Toronto Maple Leafs they can go somewhere else. Believe it or not, they ARE replaceable. And the Leafs should seriously think about unloading some of these marshmallows.

Bring in some fresh meat.

Players who will stand up for themselves and each other. Who think winning the cup is more important than how much they earn. Guys that will go home after the latest playoffs embarassment and take a good long hard look in the mirror and scream in their own faces to be better.

Instead of crying when the coach has to do it for them.

What gets me is the coach having to apologize. F@$k that shit. These kids are lucky Pat Burns isn't behind the bench.

 

[Notsince67]

Another example of +/- being used selectively. Depending on the person and time of day +/- means nothing but when it suits them it means everything. What if that -3 was a result of the TB blowout game and otherwise he is even?

Ease up on the gymnastics dicey, we're not hating on your boy Marner here. We know he is better overall but we're also not dopey enough to say Marner is a better goal scorer, or that Marner is a better skater, or Marner is better in high pressure PO games. That and we are also not stupid enough to say that Mitch Marner is worth 4million dollars more than William Nylander.

What utter shiite. Plus minus is frowned on for those who often start in the dzone and pull top defensive minutes. Nylander does none of that which is pretty bad contextually. Instead of parroting crap you read somewhere, try using some brains as to how it all works and the why's and how's of basic metrics.

 

[NVious]

I've been thinking about it and the only way to even win with this core is to bring in some defensive coach and try and grind out games 1-0 or 2-1, they clearly did not win running and gunning or trying more balanced approach. Basically you can count on the core to score a bit, but not too much.

 

[Notsince67]

Just no. Marner is many things but he will never have Nylanders snipe.

Take a look at shooting percentage between the 2 before you talk about sniping ability

 

[socko]

I would trade any and all of the core 4 for the right price. Tavares I would give away for free if I didn't have to retain. He's yours. Matthews and Marner are the heart and soul of this current team. The catch is this team has no heart or soul. And Nylander is terrific value at 7 million cap hit. Put that up at 10 and he's not nearly as appealing.

 

[mikeyz]

There's a difference between losing close games when the other team has a wayyy better goalie, and not showing up. Why are we going to sit here and pretend they weren't getting dozens of scoring chances for most of that series? Yes, the result was not good, not converting on your chances is not good, but look at Carolina the following round. They were shutout and had another game with just 1 goal. Bobrovsky was playing on another level and that was by far the main reason we lost the series.

A team worth blowing up doesn't compete well with teams in the Stanley Cup finals, and yes they did compete well even if it ended after 5 games. They were not getting blown out of the water by any means and infact we outplayed them twice by more than they outplayed us in any single game.

You have been saying this every spring for the last 7 years. Lol.



He's had terrible takes in the last few years. But he's bang on here.