The Core Has To Go

[Boxscore]

one of the main reasons I'm so disappointed is because there are no likeable players left.

Point taken, but I actually think there are many likeable players on the club. The problem is they're the wrong mix and they we're spoiled rotten and pampered by a young, inexperienced GM who was immature himself.

During the regular season, most of these kids are very likeable and provide a ton of entertainment value. They're just spoiled, soft, and have never been held accountable.

 

[notDatsyuk]

You think Nylander is better than Marner?

Not just me - there are a number of people who think so, especially when you also consider who they normally play with, how they perform in the tougher playoff games, and their respective cap hits.

If you want to say that Marner is marginally better, fine (we can disagree, which is OK), but Nylander is the much better bargain.

 

[notDatsyuk]

Why is it always Willie Vs Marner? Like honestly, why?
Why not AM who just couldn't score? Or JT who just couldn't play and be effective 5 vs 5?

Trading one of Willie or Marner won't do anything with the current Leafs, unless the player(s) coming our way is Helle, Drai, McD, Mack, Makar or Kuch.

JT is byfar the biggest problem, as he doesn't even provide any intangibles.

People keep bringing up JT won't waive....but if I am the MGT, I would have a good talk with JT and ask him to waive. If he doesn't, take him off the PP1 and put Knies in that spot instead.

Agreed. I would love to get Tavares to waive, and if it takes dropping him to 3C and PP2 to achieve that, I'm all for it. I can, to an extent, understand Dubas and Keefe not wanting to do that, as it is a tacit admission that the contract was bad. Maybe the new GM and a new coach will be willing to.

I think the real benefit of trading Marner or Nylander would be a culture change. They are both 'soft' players, although Willy shows better in the playoffs than Mitch., and Mitch seems to be more 'entitled'. Willy with the much better contract should be easier to move and get a better return, but I think trading Mitch would have a better effect on the team.

I'd be less willing to trade Matthews - centre, 'generational' player, and the 'face of the franchise'. Hopefully he can recover from his injuries to again be the sniper he was, and be able to carry that into the playoffs (which, again, is where I think trading Marner would help).

 

[Larcos_Unal]

I have to admit, keeping the core and Keefe and letting Dubas walk was not on my offseason bingo card. Only way this team is improved from last year's roster is if they vastly improve the D core.

I just don't see how you do that in a significant manner without sacrificing one of the big boys. So we're just running it back eh?

 

[ShaneFalco]

I have to admit, keeping the core and Keefe and letting Dubas walk was not on my offseason bingo card. Only way this team is improved from last year's roster is if they vastly improve the D core.

I just don't see how you do that in a significant manner without sacrificing one of the big boys. So we're just running it back eh?

I'll be shocked if that's the case
This team needs a shake-up. Starting with Keefe

 

[Trapper]

I have to admit, keeping the core and Keefe and letting Dubas walk was not on my offseason bingo card. Only way this team is improved from last year's roster is if they vastly improve the D core.

I just don't see how you do that in a significant manner without sacrificing one of the big boys. So we're just running it back eh?

Masterful execution. Instead of the regular end of season press conference to upset a fan base, we got a head scratching Days of our Lives exit that left you scratching your head and focus all your energy on a new GM.
Only to find out at the end, it’s all running back.

 

[Larcos_Unal]

Masterful execution. Instead of the regular end of season press conference to upset a fan base, we got a head scratching Days of our Lives exit that left you scratching your head and focus all your energy on a new GM.
Only to find out at the end, it’s all running back.

Yep, they spun the hell out of it and as a result, Shanny is officially on the clock.
There's nobody else left to take the blame...this will be his 10th year at the helm right?

 

[Mess]

Of the core 4 the one player that should go first ideally would be Tavares because of age and lack of speed and poor 5v5 play and mainly because his $11 mil is a boat anchor on Leafs Salary Cap.

Problem he has a full NMC and say he plans on playing it out.

Leafs Cap hell began with the luxuary purchase but not required/needed signing of JT to the highest UFA contract in a Salary cap world at the time and they could get themselves out if they could find a team Tavares would agree to go to.

 

[Boxscore]

Of the core 4 the one player that should go first ideally would be Tavares because of age and lack of speed and poor 5v5 play and mainly because his $11 mil is a boat anchor on Leafs Salary Cap.

Problem he has a full NMC and say he plans on playing it out.

Leafs Cap hell began with the luxuary purchase but not required/needed signing of JT to the highest UFA contract in a Salary cap world at the time and they could get themselves out if they could find a team Tavares would agree to go to.

Absolutely correct.

 

[seventieslord]

If Tavares agrees to a $9.5 cap hit, it immediately sets the tone for the young Leafs to follow his lead, which likely equals $6.25 for Nylander, $9.25 for Marner, and $10 mil for Matthews (on a longer term). That also means the Leafs have an extra $5+ million a year in cap space to upgrade the core with more adequate depth

It's more than 5. If you imagine we're using that money to make 2 upgrades, you can also subtract a 1M player and another making, say, 2M. That's 8M in space for a gritty top 6 forward and a Muzzin-like defenseman.

 

[Dale Gribble]

Tavares and Marner are the ones that I'd like to see traded, but I don't see that happening, as it's been said by media types that Shanahan wants to keep the Core 4.

If true, I can only see a move being made if Nylander, Marner and Matthews ask for the World, then something ala Tkachuk trade would have to go down.

Interesting times in Leaf Land again.

 

[hockeywiz542]

Opinion | Leafs GM needs to get more from (or for) the Core Four — not protect them

Auston Matthews, Mitch Marner, William Nylander and John Tavares they’ve been coddled and catered to as though they were multiple Stanley Cup winners.

www.thestar.com

And so he can arrive in the centre of the hockey universe and only pretend to have a clue. He can also make plenty of mistakes. Such as his ill-advised utterance: “This can’t be about the Core Four. The success of this team, or whatever challenges we have, isn’t because of four guys or two guys or one guy. It’s about the group.”

The problem is, the whole failed experiment that’s been the last seven years has told everybody who’s actually paying attention that the exact opposite is true.

The success of this team — or rather the lack thereof in the playoffs — is about precisely four guys. It’s about four highly skilled and largely toothless forwards who take up 50 per cent of the salary cap. It’s about the inanity of continuing to build a roster so inherently unbalanced.

Even Dubas, in his final press conference as Leafs GM, seemed to be coming around to the idea that, after years of deftly swapping role players around the edges of the roster to little avail come playoff time, now might be the moment to take a knife to the meat of the thing.

And that’s the sad truth: Dubas, gone now, was deft at finding value off the NHL scrap heap. He was excellent at filling in the annual roster holes even as the salary-cap crunch loomed. There’s no evidence Treliving has the first clue how to do any of that.

Alas, maybe this is what you get when you swap out a GM who won one playoff series in five seasons for a GM who won a grand total of two in nine seasons. Upgrades, baby, upgrades.

Treliving’s boldest move in Calgary, the Matthew Tkachuk trade, was one of desperation — and it was, to be clear, a very good one, the salvaging of a potential disaster.

But now the Leafs are asking the GM who let an American star named Johnny Gaudreau leave Calgary in free agency for nothing to walk the fine line of placating an impending free agent named Auston Matthews while also encouraging Matthews to sign a deal that’s at least a little more team friendly than his last one. They’re asking Treliving to jump on a moving train, get his bearings and make informed decisions for which he can’t possibly have anywhere near the required institutional knowledge.

Between now and then, let’s hope somebody helps Treliving read the room. With patience waning here, the new general manager arrived in town and admired the beauty of the status quo.

“Just being different doesn’t necessarily make you better,” Treliving insisted, ripping the words right out of Shanahan’s mouth.

If being different doesn’t necessarily make you better, all residents of Leafs Nation can say this: Remaining the same, only more expensive, can definitely make you worse.

“My job is to protect them,” Treliving countered, speaking of the Core Four.

The idea that Toronto’s Core Four need a protector is preposterous. For the entirety of their stay in Toronto they’ve been coddled and catered to as though they were a quartet of multiple Stanley Cup winners. When mean old Mike Babcock ran afoul of them, Babcock was fired. When Sheldon Keefe spoke the slightest word against them last season, he was made to backtrack like a stooge.

So, no. Treliving’s job, if he’s actually doing it, shouldn’t be to protect them. His job should be to maximize them, through trade or torment, carrot or stick. The thing that attracted him to the job — “It’s the Leafs” — either resonates with the Core Four or it doesn’t. Having just been hired by a president who’s so attached to the quartet, mind you, you can’t blame Treliving for paying homage to his newly inherited collection of talent.

 

[bodechek]

Matthews, Marner and Nylander have been coddled long enough. If Treliving plans on protecting/shield them, then the organization will never get enough out of them. They will continue to disappoint in the post season. It is time for them to grow the f' up!

 

[seventieslord]

Asset management. Trading Matthews is trading the face of your franchise. The halo will be enormous on the ice, in the organization, and with the media and fans. It's also unrealistic to remove your star 1st line center and place even more pressure on kids like Marner and Nylander to carry the team for the next couple of years until help is on the way.

Swap Matthews for Pettersson and the Leafs could continue their path and hope the trade pans out. Swapping Matthews for kids who won't contribute for 2-3 years is a whole different approach.

I get what you're saying, but also you need to remember that the leafs will always spend to the cap. So Matthews isn't just being replaced with backfill from the minors. They're going to spend that 11 million on other players, probably at least half of it on a fair replacement center, and the other half on a good winger or defenseman. It is by no means a foregone conclusion that the leafs will be a worse team with the 11 million dollars they spend on Matthews right now, being spent on multiple players. They might be, they might not be.

 

[ToneDog]

MacLean thinks you can't build a team with Matty at 14 unless cap rises significantly or you move 16 or 88. Thinks top 4 should not make more than 34.5m. Kyle tried and failed 5 years.

 

[seventieslord]

I think it will be good entertainment if 34 goes into the season without renewing his contract. Every day that passes the pressure on 34 from media and fans will be koo koo crazy. Does he want that? Ive come to terms with the fact they might not sign him and he could walk for free. Im really at the whatever happens, happens stage. The sun will rise tomorrow.

Footnote...I do think it would be stupid to let him walk for free.

You're right that that would be the worst possible scenario. But there are bright sides to everything. Cap space is a huge asset. You never know what they could do with that space. They could even make the team better. Of course I'd rather see them do that AND have the assets that they acquired in a trade.. but either way it's not the end of the world.

 

[seventieslord]

Or you run it back, because you know, it took Stamkos x number of years to win a cup

I can't tell if this is serious or sarcastic, but just in case it is serious... Tampa Bay, when they finally won, had three, arguably four, players more valuable than stamkos.

 

[myleafs]

Not just me - there are a number of people who think so, especially when you also consider who they normally play with, how they perform in the tougher playoff games, and their respective cap hits.

If you want to say that Marner is marginally better, fine (we can disagree, which is OK), but Nylander is the much better bargain.

I think if Nylander wanted to he could maybe be our best player but Im not sure he has the fire in him to reach those heights. Marner makes those around him better than anyone on the team IMO sans the playoffs of course where nobody has really stepped up.

 

[myleafs]

Of the core 4 the one player that should go first ideally would be Tavares because of age and lack of speed and poor 5v5 play and mainly because his $11 mil is a boat anchor on Leafs Salary Cap.

Problem he has a full NMC and say he plans on playing it out.

Leafs Cap hell began with the luxuary purchase but not required/needed signing of JT to the highest UFA contract in a Salary cap world at the time and they could get themselves out if they could find a team Tavares would agree to go to.

I was torn when they signed him....It was like cool Tavares but then I remember thinking man we could have secured a stud dman and some cap for that money and we dont really need a 2c at that price. If we had won it wouldnt have mattered what JT got but we didnt so....

 

[Zur En Arrh]

I think the last 3 years lack of success are because of the Tavares deal. Going to be a couple more years until we can get out from under it


You just can’t keep running it back having 4 forwards take 50% of your cap

Then how should Brad structure the cap?

 

[authentic]

I think if Nylander wanted to he could maybe be our best player but Im not sure he has the fire in him to do reach those heights. Marner makes those around him better than anyone on the team IMO sans the playoffs of course where nobody has really stepped up.

Nylander shows the potential in big games more often than Marner, but without Mitch we don't even get to those big games or possibly the playoffs in the first place. If Nylander could commit to being a two-way player which he has shown he's capable of then he's not a player I would want to lose either. I would be all for trading Mitch if we could get something of equal value back that would also perform well in the playoffs but I just don't think that's likely at all.

 

[Zur En Arrh]

Absolutely correct.

False. When players are available, franchise players for only money you spent it. He immediately made us better. He's been utterly fantastic and has earned every penny. He's a sundin like leader, just goes about his bussines. He scores clutch goals. All this revisionist " I knew it was bad day one" bullshit! Ever poster here was pumped to the tits. I don't even want to hear it. We are really really lucky Tavares came. If COVID didn't happen his cap hit wouldn't even be discussed. I mean get real people. Ppg, clutch,classy captain and we're complaining...this is why we can't have nice things... SMH

 

[Gabriel426]

Read some tweets that some fans are all up in arms when Treliving said they played better and lost last year against TB on Overdrive and started saying he is blaming on bounces and stuff like Dubas too. Here is the thing, no new GM would go into the team and ripped it apart and stated they didn't show up against the Panthers. Even when Lou came in to do the tank job, he didn't came in and said the team sucked and needed to finish last.....

 

[ShaneFalco]

I can't tell if this is serious or sarcastic, but just in case it is serious... Tampa Bay, when they finally won, had three, arguably four, players more valuable than stamkos.

 

[Gabriel426]

False. When players are available, franchise players for only money you spent it. He immediately made us better. He's been utterly fantastic and has earned every penny. He's a sundin like leader, just goes about his bussines. He scores clutch goals. All this revisionist " I knew it was bad day one" bullshit! Ever poster here was pumped to the tits. I don't even want to hear it. We are really really lucky Tavares came. If COVID didn't happen his cap hit wouldn't even be discussed. I mean get real people. Ppg, clutch,classy captain and we're complaining...this is why we can't have nice things... SMH

CLUTCH GOALS? He scored ONE CLUTCH GOAL in the playoffs. and whenever the team needed a lift, he is usually no where to be found.
He is not a bad player but he is far from Sundin. He is not worth the 11mil contract now, but that was expected. JT was brought in to lead the Leafs to the next stage and that next stage is not the 2nd round. So far, JT had failed to deliver.