The Core Has To Go

[notDatsyuk]

The argument around signing JT was if Mathews and Marner show to be as good or better they will get JT money because thats how the payment structure works on NHL teams.
So it was THE PROBLEM

He's saying that signing JT wasn't the problem, but the term, amount, and NMC were. Which I can see. If he had been signed for 5 years at about $9M with no NMC, maybe Mitch signs for $8M and Matty for $10, and JT would be gone by now. We would have had another $6M available for D and G, and lots to extend Matty and at least one of Mitch and Willy right now.

 

[keonsbitterness]

Agreed. The caveat is his camp floating a number out there that is not sustainable for long-term success. We simply cannot construct a legitimate Cup contender if Matthews insists on being paid more than Connor McDavid and Nate MacKinnon.

What if he were to sign for more, but $12.8M as opposed to $14-15M?

What if the 2 lessor players are more motivated and committed to win then the 1 better skilled player

Sure, but that's not easy to measure. Matthew Tkachuk was considered a bit of playoff disappointment before this year.

 

[rumman]

Can't see him ever neutering himself like that. The board also loves Shanahan, so he basically is ownership.

“Dreams are nothing more than wishes, and a wish is just a dream yet to come true………”

 

[keonsbitterness]

“Dreams are nothing more than wishes, and a wish is just a dream yet to come true………”

Good old Harry.

 

[notDatsyuk]

1) It's a sign and trade obviously.

2) For the Leafs getting better is not correlated to star talent it's correlated to talent in all the right spots to win playoffs hockey games. This group isn't doing that and is not about to do that. By trading 1 guy for more overall talent in more positions the leafs become stronger and Cooley could be more useful than Matthews (speed, elusiveness) in the playoffs potentially. Arizona needs a 1C for Keller now, they have tons of middle 6 talent.

You can't sign him before July 1 and you can't trade him after July 1. Sign and trade is impossible unless he agrees to waive his brand new NMC.

 

[Racer88]

What if he were to sign for more, but $12.8M as opposed to $14-15M?

Sure, but that's not easy to measure. Matthew Tkachuk was considered a bit of playoff disappointment before this year.

Maybe so but he isn’t paid 12 million and he has broken thru this year plus all the havoc he causes players from the opposition

You can't sign him before July 1 and you can't trade him after July 1. Sign and trade is impossible unless he agrees to waive his brand new NMC.

The only safe way is if they both announce publicly that they have agreed on an extension. It is not 100% assured but I’m betting neither side would renege in public

 

[SOLR]

You can't sign him before July 1 and you can't trade him after July 1. Sign and trade is impossible unless he agrees to waive his brand new NMC.

The incentives is for him to get $14m + he needs to understand that's impossible here.

 

[notDatsyuk]

The only safe way is if they both announce publicly that they have agreed on an extension. It is not 100% assured but I’m betting neither side would renege in public

I would hope so, but....

 

[notDatsyuk]

The incentives is for him to get $14m + he needs to understand that's impossible here.

So you would sign him for a $14M extension, and then hope you could find another team he would be willing to go to that could afford to pay him that plus has the assets to trade for him?

And what if you can't trade him, or you've priced him so high you can't get as good a return?

 

[Racer88]

I would hope so, but....

True……

 

[57 Years No Cup]

Projection. It's what's for dinner.

I'm not Paul nor am I a psychiatrist but I did stay at a holiday inn express last night and I think we should investigate why you hate a hockey player's dad just because said player is not as great at hockey as you think you deserve him to be

Projection. It's what's for dinner.

 

[57 Years No Cup]

Let’s not kid ourselves, deep down we all know that the core is going to be back. I guess the only real question left is, who can we surround these guys with? Who can get these guys to break out when it really counts? God only knows!

When it comes to who the next GM is going to be, Treliving is likely going to get the nod and that doesn’t excite me very much.

What I’m even more interested in is, who our next coach will be? I’d be pretty surprised if Keefe is still here when the season starts.

Whoever the next coach is, is going to have to find a way to get every bit of commitment out of each and every player. Got to hold them all accountable and get them to all buy in to the program.

Going to be an interesting next couple of months. Hopefully it all works out.

If the core is back then Shanahan and MLSE aren't serious about winning.

The end.

You can't sign him before July 1 and you can't trade him after July 1. Sign and trade is impossible unless he agrees to waive his brand new NMC.

Dubas screwed us so hard without lube.

 

[SOLR]

So you would sign him for a $14M extension, and then hope you could find another team he would be willing to go to that could afford to pay him that plus has the assets to trade for him?

And what if you can't trade him, or you've priced him so high you can't get as good a return?

These things would be all discussed between the acquiring team, the Leafs and Matthews. A NMC just means Matthews can say no, it doesn't mean they can't talk.

 

[MilkofthePoppy]

Under no circumstances should management consider giving a raise to any of these players.

 

[57 Years No Cup]

Under no circumstances should management consider giving a raise to any of these players.

THIS^.

 

[diceman934]

Both of them avoid physical contact at all costs! When it's crunch time neither have been able to help get this team over the hump. Marner will get us more in a trade as well as freeing up more cap space, plus I really believe he gets his way, much more so than Nylander. I really hope he is traded!

Do you watch games at all. Marner takes all kinds of hits and hits players himself. Nylander not do much. Of course marner would bring more return. We trade marner and it instantly becomes the worse trade in NHL history

And Willy leads at even strength, especially if you consider his lower ice time, and even more if you look at their respective centers.

Nylander was a minus 3 Marner a plus 7 lol

 

[notdoneyet]

Not if you open up another good window 1 year from now. Marner and Nylander are still improving, if you start just surrounding them with talent, it might not even take 1 year. And then you have a bunch of entry-level contracts to keep opening some cap flexibility to add (they have to, in order to transition out of the Tavares situation)

My proposal is lateral enough, it gets both future and PLD as a "good enough" replacement for Matthews. Getting Petterson would get you far fewer assets and cap flexibility for little added benefits.

<== 2x core over 11m, 2x8 million players, but you are up 2 top 6 players on entry level
Tavares - PLD - Willy
Knies - Cooley - Marner
Leonard - X - X

Is vastly superior to this:
Tavares - Pettersson - Willy
Knies - X - Marner

You can't make a lateral move for Matthews, because the problem is the cap, not Matthews the player himself. There is no point in trading Matthews without creating cap flexibility, and entry-level contracts that can play in the top 6 are the solution (rare, so you need to be intentional about it)

In 1994, the Nordiques traded Mats Sundin from their core to the Leafs, they were back in contention in 1995, and won the cup a year after. They did this by keeping Sakic, shifting Sundin into Forsberg (entry level). They were hyper-salary limited, that's why they moved to Colorado. It's a similar situation.

PLD has made it known he is signing as a UFA in Montreal

 

[rumman]

If the core is back then Shanahan and MLSE aren't serious about winning.

The end.


Dubas screwed us so hard without lube.

Dubas is a snake, but he’s a sneaky snake, no doubt about it……..

 

[notdoneyet]

Matthews to Arizona for
Keller
Carouse 6 th overall
Plus another 1st of their choice

 

[Boxscore]

What if he were to sign for more, but $12.8M as opposed to $14-15M?

At the end of the day, I could live with the 12.8 if he is willing to concede on longer term. The fact that he will likely insist on being the highest paid player in the NHL is a knock on his character and professional maturity but I wouldn't move on from the kid over a couple hundred grand.

If he demands anything more than that, his priority is squeezing every penny out of the Leafs and not being part of a Cup caliber club. That's when I move on. The problem is, the new GM needs to make that call before summer ends. If they leave it with the cliché, "we'll see where the cap goes..." then Matthews has all the leverage on the eve of free agency and the new GM likely sealed his fate.

 

[myleafs]

Do you watch games at all. Marner takes all kinds of hits and hits players himself. Nylander not do much. Of course marner would bring more return. We trade marner and it instantly becomes the worse trade in NHL history


Nylander was a minus 3 Marner a plus 7 lol

I kind of feel the same way about 16. His after the season comments (every year) irked me as does most of the stuff he says when he is under fire. However to your take,....He will go into the corner unlike 88 and has some battle (tiny bit ) and he isnt built the same way 88 is either. His going limp ala 34 and smirking while getting punched in the face a few times is a bad look and leaves a bad taste in my mouth but I think it is at least an honest representation of these leafs IMO.

Tkachuk smacking him in the face with no response was exactly like Marchand punching Sedin in the face way back when. It was a show of dominance and in both instances Sedin (who is much bigger than Marchand) and Marner submitted without so much as a whimper.....game set match. Even Kessel would use his stick on the ankles when he needed to.

For all around game I think 16 is the better of the bunch though. He makes those around him better and doesnt need someone else to help him do his thing. His problems in the playoffs IMO is the lack of time and space and he just isnt adapting to the situation. Keep it simple, stupid would be my advice but Im not sure if he has topped out and set in his ways as a player and what we see is what we get, or, could another coach coach him into making better decisions or at least not bad decisions during the playoffs?

 

[diceman934]

All I see is shyte. We know Tavares is dust so why bother bringing him into it we can’t trade him.

So one winger with 6.9 mil cap for 3 points vs flordia. One rocket winner Center with 2 points and then marner muffin with 3 points playing wing. I’d get rid of him out of all 3 since he makes 11 mil.

3-2-1 points who cares, I put in 10-20-30 percent effort at my job and I suck in all scenarios.

Yes one winger was a huge minus in the Florida series and the other a positive player despite playing against their best. One never attempted a body check the other threw lots of hits

I would get rid of the guy coming off a career year and adds nothing in the way of physical play and get some bigger good skating wingers who physically impact the game.

I would trade Mathews before Marner. If Mathews insists on not signing before July 1 he should be shipped out. Marner will resign next year at a team friendly deal unless we sign Mathews at a higher amount again. Then Marner will want a simpler deal as who could blame him.

Once Dufas signed Jt at an inflated deal Both Mathews and Marner who are better and wanted more them Him.

 

[myleafs]

At the end of the day, I could live with the 12.8 if he is willing to concede on longer term. The fact that he will likely insist on being the highest paid player in the NHL is a knock on his character and professional maturity but I wouldn't move on from the kid over a couple hundred grand.

If he demands anything more than that, his priority is squeezing every penny out of the Leafs and not being part of a Cup caliber club. That's when I move on. The problem is, the new GM needs to make that call before summer ends. If they leave it with the cliché, "we'll see where the cap goes..." then Matthews has all the leverage on the eve of free agency and the new GM likely sealed his fate.

I think it will be good entertainment if 34 goes into the season without renewing his contract. Every day that passes the pressure on 34 from media and fans will be koo koo crazy. Does he want that? Ive come to terms with the fact they might not sign him and he could walk for free. Im really at the whatever happens, happens stage. The sun will rise tomorrow.

Footnote...I do think it would be stupid to let him walk for free.

 

[Boxscore]

Matthews to Arizona for
Keller
Carouse 6 th overall
Plus another 1st of their choice

Unfortunately, this will never happen because the Yotes are in a turbulent situation and Matthews will not agree to an extension. That said, this is the exact type of deal that could be a homerun for us if played out.

Trade #1: Matthews and Murray (salary) to ARI for Keller, Crouse, 6th overall, and protected 1st in 2024.

Trade #2: 6th overall to CAL for Elias Lindholm.

Out:
Matthews
Murray
Cap hit: $16.2 (plus Matthews increase on next deal)

In:
Keller
Lindholm
Crouse
Cap hit: $18.2

In this hypothetical, we parlay Matthews into three contributors that completely change the dynamic of the club. Lindholm and Keller are both top line players and Crouse is a grimy gamer who scores big goals in the trenches.

Add these pieces to Marner, Nylander, Tavares and Rielly and we're deeper overnight. Be very deliberate with our UFA signings, make it a priority to address D depth, and this has the makings of a very good club with a new identity. Having the Yotes 1st in 2024 is the ultimate carrot that could be used to land a key piece at the deadline if needed.

 

[ToneDog]

Do you watch games at all. Marner takes all kinds of hits and hits players himself. Nylander not do much. Of course marner would bring more return. We trade marner and it instantly becomes the worse trade in NHL history


Nylander was a minus 3 Marner a plus 7 lol

Wow, instantly and worst trade in NHL history ?? Now that is some kind of Marner love.