The Core Has To Go

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True, but he was still a luxury for the Leafs who were already building an offensive juggernaut headlined by Matthews, Marner, and Nylander. If John Tavares was a franchise defenseman like Victor Hedman, John Carlson, or Roman Josi at the time, it would have made more sense.

Either that, or you use your destination to your advantage. Tavares claims he wanted to be a Leaf more than anything else. Fine, but tell him the budget is $9.5 (which at the time was massive money). Like I said, if the Sharks or Islanders were willing to pay him $12 or $13 mil, let them pay him.
Kind of like what Lou said to Stamkos when he came for boost of talking to Toronto. Lou apparently offered him the same deal TB did and Steven was insulted. Maybe Lou knew he would never leave TB and was just using the threat of coming here to boost his money in TB....nobody knows for sure...but either way..a budget is a budget.
 
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Gudas is playing the best hockey of his career right now imho. I've watched him closely in Philly and his game now is a level above what it was with the Flyers. Speaking of the Flyers, Provorov will likely be available and he could be a huge upgrade for the Leafs, playing Robin to Rielly's Batman.

The unfortunate part is that under Briere and Jones the Flyers aren't taking any shortcuts, which rules out a trade for Nylander or Marner, because Provorov and Laughton would be excellent Leafs.

Provorov, Hart and Frost are the guys on Philly that would be of interest. Morgan Frost looks like he might be a player after all.
 
Kind of like what Lou said to Stamkos when he came for boost of talking to Toronto. Lou appearantly offered him the same deal TB did and Steven was insulted. Maybe Lou knew he would never leave TB and was just using the threat of coming here to boost his money in TB....nobody knows for sure...but either way..a budget is a budget.
Lou was principled. Dubas was not. It's as simple as that. I probably would have offered a bit more money to Stamkos though considering what was given to JT with his foot speed.
 
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That's tongue in cheek right? Regular season you mean? I guess you could debate that but the Rocket takes the cake for sure so, no I disagree on that.
You keep proving you know nothing.

Marner leads the team in playoff points since he became a leaf.

Marner lead the team in playoffs points again this year.
Marner was our best forward in plus minus with a plus 7.

Your boy Nylander was our worse forward in plus minus with a - 3.
 
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Kind of like what Lou said to Stamkos when he came for boost of talking to Toronto. Lou appearantly offered him the same deal TB did and Steven was insulted. Maybe Lou knew he would never leave TB and was just using the threat of coming here to boost his money in TB....nobody knows for sure...but either way..a budget is a budget.
Exactly. Tell Tavares to live with 9.5 if he wants to breakout the Leafs pajama pics or enjoy San Jose. But the way Shanny and Dubas caved on Nylander, Marner, Matthews, gave into the dress code demands, and never held the players accountable for annual playoff failures, tells us they are more interested in acting like fans than building a Cup contender so far.
 
You keep proving you know nothing.

Marner leads the team in playoff points since he became a leaf.

Marner lead the team in playoffs points again this year.
Marner was our best forward in plus minus with a plus 7.

Your boy Nylander was our worse forward in plus minus with a - 3.

Marner is just a winger. He doesn't score. He never scores when you need him to score and he hardly gets PO points when you really need him. Those are the facts. He isn't worth his money period and never was. AHO money at best maybe a bit more at the time.

Marner was a 8.5-9m guy or out the door guy to me. That's it, final. Nylander was paid fine so who cares, is Marner 50% better than Nylander? Thats how much more he makes, its a joke.
 
11 games this playoffs
MM 3-11. 14 points +8. 18 hits
AM 5-6. 11 points +3. 38 hits
JT 4-4 8 points. -1. 26 hits
WN 4-6 10 points -4. 3 hits yes 3 hits and -4

Yep marner should be traded
Marner, Tavares and Matthews were invisble in the Florida series and they cost a ton and Matthews/Marner will only ask for more.

It's no tragedy to trade away a core of failures that has achieved 1 second round game win in 7 years.
 
Marner, Tavares and Matthews were invisble in the Florida series and they cost a ton and Matthews/Marner will only ask for more.

It's no tragedy to trade away a core of failures that has achieved 1 second round win in 7 years.
JT at 9m
MM at 9m
AM at 10m

There is enough money in those modified contracts to get yourself 3/4 of the way to getting a stud Dman. It's the cap era, the team is just stupid and don't get it.
 
Lou was principled. Dubas was not. It's as simple as that. I probably would have offered a bit more money to Stamkos though considering what was given to JT with his foot speed.

Lou offered JT the same contract we did, I think he even went up to 11.5 last minute. Where did the principle go?

JT at 9m
MM at 9m
AM at 10m

There is enough money in those modified contracts to get yourself 3/4 of the way to getting a stud Dman. It's the cap era, the team is just stupid and don't get it.

That’s the same difference as replacing Kerfoot, Holl, Engvall with Holmberg, Timmins, McMann.

Someone worth the money has to actually be available and want to play/extend here.
 
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Lou offered JT the same contract we did, I think he even went up to 11.5 last minute. Where did the principle go?



That’s the same difference as replacing Kerfoot, Holl, Engvall with Holmberg, Timmins, McMann.

Someone worth the money has to actually be available and want to play/extend here.
Do you not agree keeping Hyman and his trade value is something? We can go down the list on this as well because it will come up again and again. Keep in mind whatever the position, they have trade value too.
 
Do you not agree keeping Hyman and his trade value is something? We can go down the list on this as well because it will come up again and again. Keep in mind whatever the position, they have trade value too.

The complaints about him being injured in the playoffs are already starting, he won me over but that’s a scary contract. It’s not a Muzzin situation where he just goes away one day, it’s going to be a constant 3-6 weeks here and there with LBIs that you can’t even use LTIR on consistently.

I get the team would be better with Hyman or Pietrangelo or Kadri or whoever we didn’t get, but the fact is we could afford one of those guys if we wanted to. We still spent that money, we just spent it on Brodie + 3.5 mil of filler pieces that offseason.

The extra 5 mil on the big 4 contracts would be relevant to complain about for keeping a second one of those pieces. Trim the fat on Kerfoot and co, sign Pietro instead of Brodie, then I understand saying “if the big 4 took less we could have kept Hyman too”. But even in that scenario, “if the big 4 took less, we could have added Lindholm on top of Pietro” is preferable.
 
We are in a bind and it all started with the Tavares contract, which completely falls on Shanahan and Dubas. That was their moment in time to set the tone for how the organization was going to operate from a commitment standpoint.

Tavares insisted he only left the Islanders so he could come home and live out his dream of playing with the Leafs. But he did so at the expense of signing the 2nd largest cap hit in the NHL at the time behind McDavid. This was a massive fail by Shanny and Dubas considering...

The following summer Nikita Kucherov (coming off an Art Ross winning 128 point season) signed a long-term, team-friendly extension at 9.5 million per in order to keep the Bolts core in place. Yzerman was quoted as saying, "From a team's perspective, it helps us going forward knowing the (NHL salary) cap numbers of the players, knowing the commitment we have to make other decisions accordingly." This was in complete contrast to the way the Leafs brass handled their business with Tavares.

The Leafs, loaded with their own homegrown talent pool similar to the Lightning, decided to make a huge splash in free agency before taking care of their own soldiers. When Shanahan and Dubas gave Tavares the 2nd largest cap hit in the NHL and stitched the C on his chest, the precedent was set.

Shanahan immediately followed the Tavares signing with his infamous, "Our players are going to have to take less to play for the Toronto Maple Leafs" quote and agents across the league LOL'd. What followed was nothing short of a cap disaster, including a lost game of chicken with Nylander, a moderate-to-high overpayment of Marner, and a complete submission to Matthews in both cap hit and term.

And it all started with paying John Tavares an $11 million cap hit when they could have made him a fair but firm "do you really wanna come home and be a part of this budding team" offer of a $9.5 million annual deal, which was exactly what a more talented and proven Kucherov agreed to a year later. In fact, all of the Bolts historically took less to keep the core together -- Hedman, Stamkos, Kucherov, Vasilevskiy, and Point. The Leafs had their chance to set the tone and they failed miserably.

If Tavares declines, so what? That means he was more interested in a severe overpayment from San Jose or Long Island and not truly motivated by living out his dream of playing in Toronto. Or, even worse, he has no backbone and was unwilling to tell his agent, "Get it done with the Leafs" the way Kevin Shattenkirk did a year later when he took a lot less as a UFA to sign with the Rangers.

If Tavares agrees to a $9.5 cap hit, it immediately sets the tone for the young Leafs to follow his lead, which likely equals $6.25 for Nylander, $9.25 for Marner, and $10 mil for Matthews (on a longer term). That also means the Leafs have an extra $5+ million a year in cap space to upgrade the core with more adequate depth to compete for a Cup. Most importantly, it establishes a winning culture in Toronto like it did in Tampa and Colorado, where everyone was willing to take a bit less for the betterment of the team. Instead, Shanny and Dubas unlocked the vault, opened it for Tavares, and the young stars lined up to get their cuts. To our chagrin, they handed Matthews the keys to the getaway car.

Now we're stuck. Shanny and Dubas made their bed and Dubas was jettisoned before the house collapses. This is now all on Shanahan. The only way this can end well is if Matthews resets the culture and leaves a ton of cap and term on the table with his next contract so the core can remain with money left over for improvements. Then Nylander and Marner must follow his lead. If not, we're just rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic until the next rebuild is upon us.

Unfortunately, at this point, Shanny needs to handle Matthews the same way he handled Dubas -- no more pampering, no more caving, no more conceding. If Auston truly wants to remain a Leaf he needs to show it. If he demands $14 or $15+ mil a year to stay instead of $12.75 or $13 (and being the highest cap hit in the NHL) then his priorities are not aligned with winning a Cup, period. And if so, the Leafs need to make some very tough but honest decisions about him and any other player who isn't willing to right the ship.

This core has been given everything they have asked for and then some. They've been spoiled financially, in the room, off the ice, in the media, and by the fans. It's time they do their part.
While I agree with everything you said (well written btw) do you see any of the 3 amigos taking any kind of team friendly deal? I hope Im wrong but I don't.
 
Marner, Tavares and Matthews were invisble in the Florida series and they cost a ton and Matthews/Marner will only ask for more.

It's no tragedy to trade away a core of failures that has achieved 1 second round game win in 7 years.
Marner 3 points vs florida
Nylander 3 points vs florida
Matthews 2 points vs florida(no goals for our best goal scorer)
Tavares 1 point vs florida

Yep marner was the problem
 
While I agree with everything you said (well written btw) do you see any of the 3 amigos taking any kind of team friendly deal? I hope Im wrong but I don't.
There is zero chance any of them take less money than the absolute max they can squeeze.

All they need to do is say we need to field a team to be competitive. It is a team sport and the 3 of you have demonstrated that you are unable to do it on your own so if we give you as money as you need we will never be competitive. If you take the same rates, we can possibly have enough cap space to upgrade the defense, goaltending, and bottom 6. Since none of you are interested in playing good 2 way defensive hockey we will need those.

Im pretty confident with $35 million in cap space and the toys from trading their asses we would actually be better and further ahead, especially with the right coach and gm.
 
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While I agree with everything you said (well written btw) do you see any of the 3 amigos taking any kind of team friendly deal? I hope Im wrong but I don't.
Honestly, I do not, but they can prove me wrong. And it must start with Matthews. He needs to right the ship and if he does, the others are likely to follow suit.
 
Marner 3 points vs florida
Nylander 3 points vs florida
Matthews 2 points vs florida(no goals for our best goal scorer)
Tavares 1 point vs florida

Yep marner was the problem
All I see is shyte. We know Tavares is dust so why bother bringing him into it we can’t trade him.

So one winger with 6.9 mil cap for 3 points vs flordia. One rocket winner Center with 2 points and then marner muffin with 3 points playing wing. I’d get rid of him out of all 3 since he makes 11 mil.

3-2-1 points who cares, I put in 10-20-30 percent effort at my job and I suck in all scenarios.
 
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The attachment to this “core” is odd. They have done nothing but disappoint. It’s like people don’t think there are any other good hockey players in the league.

How many trades like this actually result in a team getting better immediately? Or even breaking even?

It’s a rebuilding move. And a lot of people don’t have any interest in that.
 
Lou was principled. Dubas was not. It's as simple as that. I probably would have offered a bit more money to Stamkos though considering what was given to JT with his foot speed.

Lou just signed Horvat to a contract that he said was too long and too much money.

Lou offered Tavares 11x8
 
All I see is shyte. We know Tavares is dust so why bother bringing him into it we can’t trade him.

So one winger with 6.9 mil cap for 3 points vs florly dia. One rocket winner Center with 2 points and then marner muffin with 3 points playing wing. I’d get rid of him out of all 3 since he makes 11 mil.

3-2-1 points who cares, I put in 10-20-30 percent effort at my job and I suck in all scenarios.
Mathews marner and nylander we perimiter players against Florida
Good for the regular season but not the playoffs.

Reilly and knies were the only top players I remember going to e dirty areas
 
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Marner 3 points vs florida
Nylander 3 points vs florida
Matthews 2 points vs florida(no goals for our best goal scorer)
Tavares 1 point vs florida

Yep marner was the problem
Are you literally standing up for an 11 million dollar player who isn't even going ppg in rounds where we lose 4-1? What do you get out of defending these guys?

In 50 games he has 47 points and 10 goals, he's not even pacing for ppg, never mind even 20 goals lmfao. Is that worth 11 million?

All 3 of them are the problem tbh, it's just that unlike the other two at least Nylander's cap hit isn't insane, but I'm not opposed to trading him or Matthews if that's what you think I'm getting at.
 

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