The Core Has To Go

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I do like Mayfield, though if Schenn comes back all of a sudden we might be a little heavy on one ingredient and somewhat poor on transition play. I think this is why you want to have a do everything, all situation defenseman who is a big, mean and can do everything for you. We need to consolidate a lot of ingredients into one cornerstone D. Easier said than done.
Is John Klingberg still any good? He can fill that need for transition for the 2nd pairing if we're gonna run Rielly-Shenn again for the 1st pairing.

Also worth noting the Flames will be rebuilding and Zadorov has 1 year left on his contract - Maybe if Treiliving gets hired here he can bring Zadorov over here to make our 3rd pairing extra big and tough too? He'd probably be a great partner for LIljegren or Timmins.
 
Is John Klingberg still any good? He can fill that need for transition for the 2nd pairing if we're gonna run Rielly-Shenn again for the 1st pairing.

Also worth noting the Flames will be rebuilding and Zadorov has 1 year left on his contract - Maybe if Treiliving gets hired here he can bring Zadorov over here to make our 3rd pairing extra big and tough too? He'd probably be a great partner for LIljegren or Timmins.

I don’t know why Zadorov hasn’t been the focal point of a PP yet, his shot is a howitzer.
 
It's literally impossible for him to sign before July 1st :laugh:



Think about how different our team can look if we added one or two scoring threats.

We know if Matthews get a lot, Marner is going to want the same.

Imagine we can trade Marner for someone like Connor and then sign Tyler Bertuzzi - or get 2 physical goal scoring players to open up space for Matthews. It would completely change the dynamic of the team in the playoffs.
Yeah I like something along those lines. Would be much harder to play against. I’m still on team D that we need a legit top 2/3 D as well as revamp our style of play to more physical / competitive.

Not sure what someone like Josi would cost but obviously marner would be a good base to add too and Nashville could retool around a younger marner.

Just names spit balling to work something around in the west.

Hellybuck/connor
Josi/forsberg
 
The attachment to this “core” is odd. They have done nothing but disappoint. It’s like people don’t think there are any other good hockey players in the league.
Not that odd. The attachment, such as it still exists, is their undeniable talent and the belief that playoff success is destined to happen despite previous playoff failures.
 
The way i see it, it is a few more moves until check mate. If we dont trade them, they likely walk for free, if we sign them we will be in evenan even worse cap situation, and if we trade them we need to rebuild/retool.

We were gifted 3 of the most talented players we have seen this generation and management f***ed it up but not providing them witu veteran leadership, proper coaching, and contracts that would allow them to field a competitive team without putting the weight of the world on 3 kids in their early 20s.

Nylander sat out until Christmas,he should have sat out the whole season. Would have set a clear clear message.. management is management, they are not their buddies.
We are in a bind and it all started with the Tavares contract, which completely falls on Shanahan and Dubas. That was their moment in time to set the tone for how the organization was going to operate from a commitment standpoint.

Tavares insisted he only left the Islanders so he could come home and live out his dream of playing with the Leafs. But he did so at the expense of signing the 2nd largest cap hit in the NHL at the time behind McDavid. This was a massive fail by Shanny and Dubas considering...

The following summer Nikita Kucherov (coming off an Art Ross winning 128 point season) signed a long-term, team-friendly extension at 9.5 million per in order to keep the Bolts core in place. Yzerman was quoted as saying, "From a team's perspective, it helps us going forward knowing the (NHL salary) cap numbers of the players, knowing the commitment we have to make other decisions accordingly." This was in complete contrast to the way the Leafs brass handled their business with Tavares.

The Leafs, loaded with their own homegrown talent pool similar to the Lightning, decided to make a huge splash in free agency before taking care of their own soldiers. When Shanahan and Dubas gave Tavares the 2nd largest cap hit in the NHL and stitched the C on his chest, the precedent was set.

Shanahan immediately followed the Tavares signing with his infamous, "Our players are going to have to take less to play for the Toronto Maple Leafs" quote and agents across the league LOL'd. What followed was nothing short of a cap disaster, including a lost game of chicken with Nylander, a moderate-to-high overpayment of Marner, and a complete submission to Matthews in both cap hit and term.

And it all started with paying John Tavares an $11 million cap hit when they could have made him a fair but firm "do you really wanna come home and be a part of this budding team" offer of a $9.5 million annual deal, which was exactly what a more talented and proven Kucherov agreed to a year later. In fact, all of the Bolts historically took less to keep the core together -- Hedman, Stamkos, Kucherov, Vasilevskiy, and Point. The Leafs had their chance to set the tone and they failed miserably.

If Tavares declines, so what? That means he was more interested in a severe overpayment from San Jose or Long Island and not truly motivated by living out his dream of playing in Toronto. Or, even worse, he has no backbone and was unwilling to tell his agent, "Get it done with the Leafs" the way Kevin Shattenkirk did a year later when he took a lot less as a UFA to sign with the Rangers.

If Tavares agrees to a $9.5 cap hit, it immediately sets the tone for the young Leafs to follow his lead, which likely equals $6.25 for Nylander, $9.25 for Marner, and $10 mil for Matthews (on a longer term). That also means the Leafs have an extra $5+ million a year in cap space to upgrade the core with more adequate depth to compete for a Cup. Most importantly, it establishes a winning culture in Toronto like it did in Tampa and Colorado, where everyone was willing to take a bit less for the betterment of the team. Instead, Shanny and Dubas unlocked the vault, opened it for Tavares, and the young stars lined up to get their cuts. To our chagrin, they handed Matthews the keys to the getaway car.

Now we're stuck. Shanny and Dubas made their bed and Dubas was jettisoned before the house collapses. This is now all on Shanahan. The only way this can end well is if Matthews resets the culture and leaves a ton of cap and term on the table with his next contract so the core can remain with money left over for improvements. Then Nylander and Marner must follow his lead. If not, we're just rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic until the next rebuild is upon us.

Unfortunately, at this point, Shanny needs to handle Matthews the same way he handled Dubas -- no more pampering, no more caving, no more conceding. If Auston truly wants to remain a Leaf he needs to show it. If he demands $14 or $15+ mil a year to stay instead of $12.75 or $13 (and being the highest cap hit in the NHL) then his priorities are not aligned with winning a Cup, period. And if so, the Leafs need to make some very tough but honest decisions about him and any other player who isn't willing to right the ship.

This core has been given everything they have asked for and then some. They've been spoiled financially, in the room, off the ice, in the media, and by the fans. It's time they do their part.
 
Matthews could very possibly walk as a UFA and that would be criminal to just let that happen.
This would be the ultimate unforgivable sin and anyone in a position of power who lets this happen should be banished from the Leafs forever. Be it Shanny, the new GM, the board, or all of the above. This would (should) result in a revolt by the fans and media 10x worse than the Ballard years.
 
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We are in a bind and it all started with the Tavares contract, which completely falls on Shanahan and Dubas. That was their moment in time to set the tone for how the organization was going to operate from a commitment standpoint.

Tavares insisted he only left the Islanders so he could come home and live out his dream of playing with the Leafs. But he did so at the expense of signing the 2nd largest cap hit in the NHL at the time behind McDavid. This was a massive fail by Shanny and Dubas considering...

The following summer Nikita Kucherov (coming off an Art Ross winning 128 point season) signed a long-term, team-friendly extension at 9.5 million per in order to keep the Bolts core in place. Yzerman was quoted as saying, "From a team's perspective, it helps us going forward knowing the (NHL salary) cap numbers of the players, knowing the commitment we have to make other decisions accordingly." This was in complete contrast to the way the Leafs brass handled their business with Tavares.

The Leafs, loaded with their own homegrown talent pool similar to the Lightning, decided to make a huge splash in free agency before taking care of their own soldiers. When Shanahan and Dubas gave Tavares the 2nd largest cap hit in the NHL and stitched the C on his chest, the precedent was set.

Shanahan immediately followed the Tavares signing with his infamous, "Our players are going to have to take less to play for the Toronto Maple Leafs" quote and agents across the league LOL'd. What followed was nothing short of a cap disaster, including a lost game of chicken with Nylander, a moderate-to-high overpayment of Marner, and a complete submission to Matthews in both cap hit and term.

And it all started with paying John Tavares an $11 million cap hit when they could have made him a fair but firm "do you really wanna come home and be a part of this budding team" offer of $9.5 million annual deal, which was exactly what a more talented and proven Kucherov agreed to a year later. In fact, all of the Bolts historically took less to keep the core together -- Hedman, Stamkos, Kucherov, Vasilevskiy, and Point. The Leafs had their chance to set the tone and they failed miserably.

If Tavares declines, so what? That means he was more interested in a severe overpayment from San Jose or Long Island and not truly motivated by living out his dream of playing in Toronto. Or, even worse, he has no backbone and was unwilling to tell his agent, "Get it done with the Leafs" the way Kevin Shattenkirk did a year later when he took a lot less as a UFA to sign with the Rangers.

If Tavares agrees to a $9.5 cap hit, it immediately sets the tone for the young Leafs to follow his lead, which likely equals $6.25 for Nylander, $9.25 for Marner, and $10 mil for Matthews (on a longer term). That also means the Leafs have an extra $5+ million a year in cap space to upgrade the core with more adequate depth to compete for a Cup. Most importantly, it establishes a winning culture in Toronto like it did in Tampa and Colorado, where everyone was willing to take a bit less for the betterment of the team. Instead, Shanny and Dubas unlocked the vault, opened it for Tavares, and the young stars lined up to get their cuts. To our chagrin, they handed Matthews the keys to the getaway car.

Now we're stuck. Shanny and Dubas made their bed and Dubas was jettisoned before the house collapses. This is now all on Shanahan. The only way this can end well is if Matthews resets the culture and leaves a ton of cap and term on the table with his next contract so the core can remain with money left over for improvements. Then Nylander and Marner must follow his lead. If not, we're just rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic until the next rebuild is upon us.

Unfortunately, at this point, Shanny needs to handle Matthews the same way he handled Dubas -- no more pampering, no more caving, no more conceding. If Auston truly wants to remain a Leaf he needs to show it. If he demands $14 or $15+ mil a year to stay instead of $12.75 or $13 (and being the highest cap hit in the NHL) then his priorities are not aligned with winning a Cup, period. And if so, the Leafs need to make some very tough but honest decisions about him and any other player who isn't willing to right the ship.

This core has been given everything they have asked for and then some. They've been spoiled financially, in the room, off the ice, in the media, and by the fans. It's time they do their part.
Gudreau coming off a 115 point season took 9.25m to go to a team that probably was not his first choice. JT's best season as an Islander was 86 points and the Leafs were probably his first and only choice. Taking less money and one less year that what the Isles offered, shows me that. At the time, I thought $10+m max but never thought the 3 amigos would use it against the Leafs.
 
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I don’t know why Zadorov hasn’t been the focal point of a PP yet, his shot is a howitzer.
If Giordano is out next year (which let's face it, by the end of this year he was looking pretty cooked) then Zadorov would be next on my list for a good 3rd pairing guy, but he will no doubt be a common trade target for atleast a few times with Calgary likely rebuilding.
 
Gudreau coming off a 115 point season took 9.25m to go to a team that probably was not his first choice. JT's best season as an Islander was 86 points and the Leafs were probably his first and only choice. Taking less money and one less year that what the Isles offered, shows me that. At the time, I thought $10+m max but never thought the 3 amigos would use it against the Leafs.
Of course the Amigos did, and they had every right to. Loyalty works both ways and all loyalty is lost once you go to the open market and pay an outsider huge money, then publicly state the internal kids need to take less (because you said so). Rule number one: take care of your own house first.

Shanny and Dubas were seduced by the sexy, big splash and threw all fiscal responsibility out the window. Tavares isn't going to bid against himself -- it was up to the Leafs to present him with a max offer that kept him in the $9.5 (max) range. If he declines, he declines. The Leafs offered him the world from jump and used the $13.5 mil offer from the Sharks as the yardstick, which was ludicrous. If Doug Wilson was willing to decimate his club by paying Tavares way more than Connor McDavid, so be it.
 
Of course the Amigos did, and they had every right to. Loyalty works both ways and all loyalty is lost once you go to the open market and pay an outsider huge money, then publicly state the internal kids need to take less (because you said so). Rule number one: take care of your own house first.

Shanny and Dubas were seduced by the sexy, big splash and threw all fiscal responsibility out the window. Tavares isn't going to bid against himself -- it was up to the Leafs to present him with a max offer that kept him in the $9.5 (max) range. If he declines, he declines. The Leafs offered him the world from jump and used the $13.5 mil offer from the Sharks as the yardstick, which was ludicrous. If Doug Wilson was willing to decimate his club by paying Tavares way more than Connor McDavid, so be it.
In before the cap should have gone up but COVID screwed up the cap comments.

Does Marner take less to stay in Toronto?
 


Didn't Jones publically say that he doesn't want to play for a Canadian team?

I think i would roll the dice if we could sneak in murray.

I think jones would consider toronto. It isnt such a downgrade of a city from chicago imo. I think nylander may be the better player but if we dump a little extra cap i think its worth it. He may be the best singular piece we can get on short notice. I think we can sign a top 6 easier and cheaper than a top pair rd. Jones might be able to put it together and be happier on a better team.

Rielly. Jones
Mccabe. Lilly
Gio. Brodie
 
In before the cap should have gone up but COVID screwed up the cap comments.

Does Marner take less to stay in Toronto?
Not after the Tavares signing, no. If you're Marner (or his agent) and the Leafs just paid an outsider with a career high of 86 points and zero accomplishments under his belt $11 million, what are you going to demand? Marner was willing to take "a hair less than Tavares" on principle, which is why it was important to get Tavares at $9.5 so Marner is willing to take $9 or $9.25.

The halo effect from the Tavares contract simply cannot be understated. Is there any coincidence the most heart and passion we've seen from the young core was when a baby faced Matthews took the underdog Leafs to 7 games vs. the Caps? I say no. Handing the team over to Dubas, and signing Tavares to that cap hit, created a country club mentality overnight run by spoiled players.
 
Not after the Tavares signing, no. If you're Marner (or his agent) and the Leafs just paid an outsider with a career high of 86 points and zero accomplishments under his belt $11 million, what are you going to demand? Marner was willing to take "a hair less than Tavares" on principle, which is why it was important to get Tavares at $9.5 so Marner is willing to take $9 or $9.25.

The halo effect from the Tavares contract simply cannot be understated. Is there any coincidence the most heart and passion we've seen from the young core was when a baby faced Matthews took the underdog Leafs to 7 games vs. the Caps? I say no. Handing the team over to Dubas, and signing Tavares to that cap hit, created a country club mentality overnight run by spoiled players.

Tavares was a franchise centre UFA in his prime with a bunch of teams bidding for his services...was a Hart finalist twice and lost the Art Ross by 1 point. Marner was a RFA winger under the full control of the Leafs with no leverage, but hey, we all know how Dubas was incompetent.
 
The core 4 as a whole drops;
Tavares ppg to .8ppg
Matthews .62gpg to .44gpg
Marner from 1+ppg to .9ppg
Nylander from ppg to .8ppg

You could even justify it if thye didn't rake us over the coals for money.

If Tavares was at 9, Matthews at 10, Marner at 8.5. We'd have money for more support, but they took every last penny they could get
11 games this playoffs
MM 3-11. 14 points +8. 18 hits
AM 5-6. 11 points +3. 38 hits
JT 4-4 8 points. -1. 26 hits
WN 4-6 10 points -4. 3 hits yes 3 hits and -4

Yep marner should be traded
 
We are in a bind and it all started with the Tavares contract, which completely falls on Shanahan and Dubas. That was their moment in time to set the tone for how the organization was going to operate from a commitment standpoint.

Tavares insisted he only left the Islanders so he could come home and live out his dream of playing with the Leafs. But he did so at the expense of signing the 2nd largest cap hit in the NHL at the time behind McDavid. This was a massive fail by Shanny and Dubas considering...

The following summer Nikita Kucherov (coming off an Art Ross winning 128 point season) signed a long-term, team-friendly extension at 9.5 million per in order to keep the Bolts core in place. Yzerman was quoted as saying, "From a team's perspective, it helps us going forward knowing the (NHL salary) cap numbers of the players, knowing the commitment we have to make other decisions accordingly." This was in complete contrast to the way the Leafs brass handled their business with Tavares.

The Leafs, loaded with their own homegrown talent pool similar to the Lightning, decided to make a huge splash in free agency before taking care of their own soldiers. When Shanahan and Dubas gave Tavares the 2nd largest cap hit in the NHL and stitched the C on his chest, the precedent was set.

Shanahan immediately followed the Tavares signing with his infamous, "Our players are going to have to take less to play for the Toronto Maple Leafs" quote and agents across the league LOL'd. What followed was nothing short of a cap disaster, including a lost game of chicken with Nylander, a moderate-to-high overpayment of Marner, and a complete submission to Matthews in both cap hit and term.

And it all started with paying John Tavares an $11 million cap hit when they could have made him a fair but firm "do you really wanna come home and be a part of this budding team" offer of a $9.5 million annual deal, which was exactly what a more talented and proven Kucherov agreed to a year later. In fact, all of the Bolts historically took less to keep the core together -- Hedman, Stamkos, Kucherov, Vasilevskiy, and Point. The Leafs had their chance to set the tone and they failed miserably.

If Tavares declines, so what? That means he was more interested in a severe overpayment from San Jose or Long Island and not truly motivated by living out his dream of playing in Toronto. Or, even worse, he has no backbone and was unwilling to tell his agent, "Get it done with the Leafs" the way Kevin Shattenkirk did a year later when he took a lot less as a UFA to sign with the Rangers.

If Tavares agrees to a $9.5 cap hit, it immediately sets the tone for the young Leafs to follow his lead, which likely equals $6.25 for Nylander, $9.25 for Marner, and $10 mil for Matthews (on a longer term). That also means the Leafs have an extra $5+ million a year in cap space to upgrade the core with more adequate depth to compete for a Cup. Most importantly, it establishes a winning culture in Toronto like it did in Tampa and Colorado, where everyone was willing to take a bit less for the betterment of the team. Instead, Shanny and Dubas unlocked the vault, opened it for Tavares, and the young stars lined up to get their cuts. To our chagrin, they handed Matthews the keys to the getaway car.

Now we're stuck. Shanny and Dubas made their bed and Dubas was jettisoned before the house collapses. This is now all on Shanahan. The only way this can end well is if Matthews resets the culture and leaves a ton of cap and term on the table with his next contract so the core can remain with money left over for improvements. Then Nylander and Marner must follow his lead. If not, we're just rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic until the next rebuild is upon us.

Unfortunately, at this point, Shanny needs to handle Matthews the same way he handled Dubas -- no more pampering, no more caving, no more conceding. If Auston truly wants to remain a Leaf he needs to show it. If he demands $14 or $15+ mil a year to stay instead of $12.75 or $13 (and being the highest cap hit in the NHL) then his priorities are not aligned with winning a Cup, period. And if so, the Leafs need to make some very tough but honest decisions about him and any other player who isn't willing to right the ship.

This core has been given everything they have asked for and then some. They've been spoiled financially, in the room, off the ice, in the media, and by the fans. It's time they do their part.
I read somewhere that Mathews wants 14 million a year, that is like 5 million more than he's worth, if true you got to move on from him
 
Tavares was a franchise centre UFA in his prime with a bunch of teams bidding for his services
True, but he was still a luxury for the Leafs who were already building an offensive juggernaut headlined by Matthews, Marner, and Nylander. If John Tavares was a franchise defenseman like Victor Hedman, John Carlson, or Roman Josi at the time, it would have made more sense.

Either that, or you use your destination to your advantage. Tavares claims he wanted to be a Leaf more than anything else. Fine, but tell him the budget is $9.5 (which at the time was massive money). Like I said, if the Sharks or Islanders were willing to pay him $12 or $13 mil, let them pay him.
 
I read somewhere that Mathews wants 14 million a year, that is like 5 million more than he's worth, if true you got to move on from him
McDavid makes $12.5 and MacKinnon makes $12.6. If Matthews wants their money, fine. If we wants more than either of them, good riddance. Trade him for a package of assets and ask Marner and Nylander what their demands are next. In no world does Auston Matthews deserve to be paid more than Connor McDavid or Nate MacKinnon, let alone one that has a hard cap.
 
Is John Klingberg still any good? He can fill that need for transition for the 2nd pairing if we're gonna run Rielly-Shenn again for the 1st pairing.

Also worth noting the Flames will be rebuilding and Zadorov has 1 year left on his contract - Maybe if Treiliving gets hired here he can bring Zadorov over here to make our 3rd pairing extra big and tough too? He'd probably be a great partner for LIljegren or Timmins.

I have no idea if Klingberg is still good. Maybe? But he's more offensively inclined as well.

I might go after Mikkola and even a Gudas before Zadorov.
 
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Gudreau coming off a 115 point season took 9.25m to go to a team that probably was not his first choice. JT's best season as an Islander was 86 points and the Leafs were probably his first and only choice. Taking less money and one less year that what the Isles offered, shows me that. At the time, I thought $10+m max but never thought the 3 amigos would use it against the Leafs.
You know what's even crazier? I remember reading on Sportsnet about how the whole JT signing went down. They didn't talk money before he told them he was coming. That was a stipulation of JT's for some reason because he wanted to go to a team with a vision he believed in. They basically offered him $10M the night he said yes and he countered saying too low. So they boosted it to $11M and it was done. That's it...no back and forth for a day or two...nothing.

So, I really don't believe for even a second that SJ offered him $13-14M and he turned it down to come here. How could they have offered it when JT said he never wanted to talk numbers? I think it was the Leafs who put that out there to make $11M seem like a steal and that he left money on the table elsewhere to come home.
 
I have no idea if Klingberg is still good. Maybe? But he's more offensively inclined as well.

I might go after Mikkola and even a Gudas before Zadorov.
Gudas is playing the best hockey of his career right now imho. I've watched him closely in Philly and his game now is a level above what it was with the Flyers. Speaking of the Flyers, Provorov will likely be available and he could be a huge upgrade for the Leafs, playing Robin to Rielly's Batman.

The unfortunate part is that under Briere and Jones the Flyers aren't taking any shortcuts, which rules out a trade for Nylander or Marner, because Provorov and Laughton would be excellent Leafs.

I think it was the Leafs who put that out there to make $11M seem like a steal and that he left money on the table elsewhere to come home.

I always believed this too. However, look at the deal Doug Wilson gave an inured Erik Karlsson. :oops:o_O
 
11 games this playoffs
MM 3-11. 14 points +8. 18 hits
AM 5-6. 11 points +3. 38 hits
JT 4-4 8 points. -1. 26 hits
WN 4-6 10 points -4. 3 hits yes 3 hits and -4

Yep marner should be traded
Yeah, how many of those points in the first 2 blowout games against Tampa? 18 hits where he may have bumped into someone accidentally.
 

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