The Core Has To Go

[Peace Frog]

If what CJ reported is true and the core is most likely going to stay intact that is extremely disappointing and we are just setting us up for another year of the same sh**. It would be literally insanity. It is also disappointing that even if we hire a new GM, there will be no time to move one of the core members that should be moved (Marner) prior to their NMC kicking in July first. Don't see him waiving after July 1st either.

I can already picture the new GM (assuming its not Pridham) wasting next season on "evaluating" the roster. I will reserve judgement on Shanny, but as of right now I feel like things are shaping up to tKW a turn for the worse in what is our most important offseason in recent memory.

This is how I feel as well. Problem is, the new GM can evaluate all he wants, but if the core 4 are still here after July 1st, then the players have all the say.

Matthews could very possibly walk as a UFA and that would be criminal to just let that happen.

Marner and JT will have their full NMC. Willy will be the only one we could move fairly easily, as he will only have a 10 team no trade list.

I’m very surprised that most of Leafs Nation is adamant in keeping Matthews. IF he does re-sign, it’s going to be for too much money, and likely not for as long a term as we’d want.

IF he doesn’t sign, then he walks! I just don’t see how the organization can risk such a disaster. My feeling is that he HAS to be traded!

 

[ShaneFalco]

This is how I feel as well. Problem is, the new GM can evaluate all he wants, but if the core 4 are still here after July 1st, then the players have all the say.

Matthews could very possibly walk as a UFA and that would be criminal to just let that happen.

Marner and JT will have their full NMC. Willy will be the only one we could move fairly easily, as he will only have a 10 team no trade list.

I’m very surprised that most of Leafs Nation is adamant in keeping Matthews. IF he does re-sign, it’s going to be for too much money, and likely not for as long a term as we’d want.

IF he doesn’t sign, then he walks! I just don’t see how the organization can risk such a disaster. My feeling is that he HAS to be traded!

I worry about his health too

 

[mjd1001]

I keep thinking about this and I keep coming back to the same spot.

The 'safest' thing to do to keep this team a playoff team and give them a shot at making the Cup finals it to keep the core 4 together. Tavares is still really productive, and the other 3 are just entering their prime. You keep them together, and barring injuries to any of them, you are making the playoffs and have a team good enough to advance into further rounds.

With that said, I'd still want to see 2 of the 4 moved. Why? They just aren't all that likeable to me....and I don't see any of them taking even a slight 'discount' to help this team fill in the roster. But mostly because they aren't as likeable to me. If you moved Marner/Matthews, I think you get a LOT in return that means the team really isn't taking much (if any) of a step back, and I'm just ready for something else.

You trade Matthews and he is going to get some 50 goal seasons on his new team and will have chances to make a name in the playoffs with that other team. But you will also get a LOT back in return for him. If you don't, of course you don't make the trade but I think you might get a massive return for him.

 

[freshwind]

Question for the cba folks ... Do the rules not say that an extension can be negotiated after Jan 1 but just not signed till Jul 1?

 

[notDatsyuk]

Question for the cba folks ... Do the rules not say that an extension can be negotiated after Jan 1 but just not signed till Jul 1?

You can negotiate with one of your players at any time, and you can have an agreement in place.

You just can't get it signed.

Which means that he can negotiate, and agree to sign on July 1st, but on July 1st his no trade kicks in, and he can say he won't sign, and there's nothing you can do.

 

[Gaberd2608]

The way i see it, it is a few more moves until check mate. If we dont trade them, they likely walk for free, if we sign them we will be in evenan even worse cap situation, and if we trade them we need to rebuild/retool.

We were gifted 3 of the most talented players we have seen this generation and management f***ed it up but not providing them witu veteran leadership, proper coaching, and contracts that would allow them to field a competitive team without putting the weight of the world on 3 kids in their early 20s.

Nylander sat out until Christmas,he should have sat out the whole season. Would have set a clear clear message.. management is management, they are not their buddies.

 

[Squiffy]

The kind of idiot that puts together a bunch of pansies that are not built to thrive in the playoffs

Matthews would have until June 30th to give me a handshake agreement on a new deal or I start aggressively shopping him before July 1st. Same goes for Mitchy, probably the biggest sucky baby pansy on that roster.

One day of aggressively shopping? That's like Ultimate Warrior level aggresive. Little more runway you'd think?

He should bet his job on them like Dubas did then.​

He has.

The NMC would stay in effect. Why would another team trade for him?

Tkachuk scenario ... 8 year sign and trade.

Important points here..

Link?

Go back a few pages. Someone posted it.

I had to chase this one back through like 7 posts. Here's the deal. The question was, has Matthews said this on the record. The answer was, after lots of dancing, no. Elliot saying "my sources tell me not to expect a July 1 signing".. is still no.

 

[ICBM]

The problem with this core is not that they lost (repeatedly). It's how they lose. Lack of character, lack of integrity. Lack of love for the game.

It's not like Irish national soccer team that did their best but still lost 1-0 to Spain. Fans sing 'Fields of Athenry' after the game with pride for their team.

It is possible for a very competent gm to win a cup with such group. With a little bit of luck. But not with all the contract extensions looming. If Leafs management was replaced 3 years ago... May be. But not now.

And another weakness of this team is defense. When I looked at the stats of the Florida dmen before the start of the series, I whistled. These guys know what the first pass is.

 

[Divine]

The player that needs to go is Marner

Great regular season player, a handicap in the playoffs.

He can't shoot and everyone knows that. His muffins from the blue line are always blocked if not a turn over, and in the playoffs you're allowed to hold and grab the Leafs' sticks so no one is open enough for him to pass to. Basically it's Marner against the goalie and the goalie wins every time. He's also the least physical player of our core.

People forget he legit had breakaways this playoffs cause he didn't capitalize on anything. Not to mention he has the worst contract of the 3 RFA's when signed. Nylander is decent, Matthews won multiple Rockets/Hart - Marner just thinks he's better than Matthews because his dad says he is. His dad also won't let him get a favourable contract - so let someone else pay him. It's criminal that Rantanen signs for 9.25M a week after Marner signs for 10.9M and he's supposed to be the hometown boy.

 

[RoadWarrior]

"According to my sources, it doesn't seem likely that Auston Matthews will sign with the Toronto Maple Leafs before July 1st. They will have some significant decisions to make." - Elliotte Friedman

if that’s the case then you trade him.

 

[GoonieFace]

The attachment to this “core” is odd. They have done nothing but disappoint. It’s like people don’t think there are any other good hockey players in the league.

 

[usernamezrhardtodo]

It’s unbelievable how some people are married to this core. Florida traded Huby and they are in the final now.

People who want to keep the core will say that FLA doing what they did was just a generic fluke and is not something you can count on. Meanwhile, they point out Detroit from the 90's as a blueprint and that we will win if we stay patient...as if Vancouver, SJ and Ottawa never winning cups after staying with their core never happened.

 

[Eye Test]

The player that needs to go is Marner

Great regular season player, a handicap in the playoffs.

He can't shoot and everyone knows that. His muffins from the blue line are always blocked if not a turn over, and in the playoffs you're allowed to hold and grab the Leafs' sticks so no one is open enough for him to pass to. Basically it's Marner against the goalie and the goalie wins every time. He's also the least physical player of our core.

People forget he legit had breakaways this playoffs cause he didn't capitalize on anything. Not to mention he has the worst contract of the 3 RFA's when signed. Nylander is decent, Matthews won multiple Rockets/Hart - Marner just thinks he's better than Matthews because his dad says he is. His dad also won't let him get a favourable contract - so let someone else pay him. It's criminal that Rantanen signs for 9.25M a week after Marner signs for 10.9M and he's supposed to be the hometown boy.

I keep going back to waiting out Tavares to keep marner because truly Tavares is the actual problem. With that said I agree with everything above and would definately see what we could return for marner and retool with a different look.

Kyle Connor + for marner? Guy rips

 

[Hockeysawks]

The problem with this core is not that they lost (repeatedly). It's how they lose. Lack of character, lack of integrity. Lack of love for the game.

It's not like Irish national soccer team that did their best but still lost 1-0 to Spain. Fans sing 'Fields of Athenry' after the game with pride for their team.

It is possible for a very competent gm to win a cup with such group. With a little bit of luck. But not with all the contract extensions looming. If Leafs management was replaced 3 years ago... May be. But not now.

And another weakness of this team is defense. When I looked at the stats of the Florida dmen before the start of the series, I whistled. These guys know what the first pass is.



View attachment 713417

They are young kids living in a crazy hockey market, the pressure would be insane and finaly winning must have been the largest sense of relief anyone could imagine.
It was probably the first time in weeks they slept for more than a couple of hours.

Like it or not they humans and that kind of stress is mentally exhausting, it's normal they came out flat in the second round. It would have been a nice lesson two years ago but now they know

 

[Divine]

if that’s the case then you trade him.

It's literally impossible for him to sign before July 1st

I keep going back to waiting out Tavares to keep marner because truly Tavares is the actual problem. With that said I agree with everything above and would definately see what we could return for marner and retool with a different look.

Kyle Connor + for marner? Guy rips

Think about how different our team can look if we added one or two scoring threats.

We know if Matthews get a lot, Marner is going to want the same.

Imagine we can trade Marner for someone like Connor and then sign Tyler Bertuzzi - or get 2 physical goal scoring players to open up space for Matthews. It would completely change the dynamic of the team in the playoffs.

 

[hockeywiz542]

 

[ToneDog]

If Willie wants anything close to Marner money, he is the guy who goes. If he takes a fair raise and shows he wants to be part of the solution, Marner goes. If the right deal comes along, both can go.

 

[Stephen]

People who want to keep the core will say that FLA doing what they did was just a generic fluke and is not something you can count on. Meanwhile, they point out Detroit from the 90's as a blueprint and that we will win if we stay patient...as if Vancouver, SJ and Ottawa never winning cups after staying with their core never happened.

Just looking at the cheapness of the blueline, lack of depth up front and questions in goal, I'd say we're closer to the West Coast Express days of Naslund, Morrison and Bertuzzi than the 90s-2000s Detroit Red Wings, with some 2000s Ottawa Senators big game issues up front.

If we had a stud blueliner in the mix I'd be a lot more comfortable with the idea that they'll grow into a winner.

 

[PROUD PAPA]

They are young kids living in a crazy hockey market, the pressure would be insane and finaly winning must have been the largest sense of relief anyone could imagine.
It was probably the first time in weeks they slept for more than a couple of hours.

Like it or not they humans and that kind of stress is mentally exhausting, it's normal they came out flat in the second round. It would have been a nice lesson two years ago but now they know

To some i suppose. IMO once you've played 500+ games you're a veteran.

 

[Stephen]

They are young kids living in a crazy hockey market, the pressure would be insane and finaly winning must have been the largest sense of relief anyone could imagine.
It was probably the first time in weeks they slept for more than a couple of hours.

Like it or not they humans and that kind of stress is mentally exhausting, it's normal they came out flat in the second round. It would have been a nice lesson two years ago but now they know

As a fan, I felt emotional relief after the Tampa win, and entering the Florida series felt a kind of happy daze in the day or two before the series started and even after the first game loss. Wish that feeling could have lasted another day after almost two decades of no playoff round victories and a half dozen years of frustration following this core.

Everything felt right in the world when ROR scored that opening goal in Game 2, and at 2-1 my friends and I were just saying do everything you can to make it 3-1, but otherwise felt good...

If the team and its core players were in the same head space, I'd be pretty worried about their mental makeup as competitors.

 

[ToneDog]

Just looking at the cheapness of the blueline, lack of depth up front and questions in goal, I'd say we're closer to the West Coast Express days of Naslund, Morrison and Bertuzzi than the 90s-2000s Detroit Red Wings, with some 2000s Ottawa Senators big game issues up front.

If we had a stud blueliner in the mix I'd be a lot more comfortable with the idea that they'll grow into a winner.

Going by how much we might want to spend and we'd be in the market for a RHD, Mayfield might be your best bet via UFA.

 

[Stephen]

Going by how much we might want to spend and we'd be in the market for a RHD, Mayfield might be your best bet via UFA.

I do like Mayfield, though if Schenn comes back all of a sudden we might be a little heavy on one ingredient and somewhat poor on transition play. I think this is why you want to have a do everything, all situation defenseman who is a big, mean and can do everything for you. We need to consolidate a lot of ingredients into one cornerstone D. Easier said than done.

 

[Hockeysawks]

As a fan, I felt emotional relief after the Tampa win, and entering the Florida series felt a kind of happy daze in the day or two before the series started and even after the first game loss. Wish that feeling could have lasted another day after almost two decades of no playoff round victories and a half dozen years of frustration following this core.

Everything felt right in the world when ROR scored that opening goal in Game 2, and at 2-1 my friends and I were just saying do everything you can to make it 3-1, but otherwise felt good...

If the team and its core players were in the same head space, I'd be pretty worried about their mental makeup as competitors.

They have people calling them greedy worthless peices of poo in the streets millions of people posting and tweeting about them. The pressure and stress is off the charts compared to other players in less crazy cities and compared to normal people it's not even imaginable.

 

[NVious]

The player that needs to go is Marner

Great regular season player, a handicap in the playoffs.

He can't shoot and everyone knows that. His muffins from the blue line are always blocked if not a turn over, and in the playoffs you're allowed to hold and grab the Leafs' sticks so no one is open enough for him to pass to. Basically it's Marner against the goalie and the goalie wins every time. He's also the least physical player of our core.

People forget he legit had breakaways this playoffs cause he didn't capitalize on anything. Not to mention he has the worst contract of the 3 RFA's when signed. Nylander is decent, Matthews won multiple Rockets/Hart - Marner just thinks he's better than Matthews because his dad says he is. His dad also won't let him get a favourable contract - so let someone else pay him. It's criminal that Rantanen signs for 9.25M a week after Marner signs for 10.9M and he's supposed to be the hometown boy.

The core 4 as a whole drops;
Tavares ppg to .8ppg
Matthews .62gpg to .44gpg
Marner from 1+ppg to .9ppg
Nylander from ppg to .8ppg

You could even justify it if thye didn't rake us over the coals for money.

If Tavares was at 9, Matthews at 10, Marner at 8.5. We'd have money for more support, but they took every last penny they could get

 

[ToneDog]

I do like Mayfield, though if Schenn comes back all of a sudden we might be a little heavy on one ingredient and somewhat poor on transition play. I think this is why you want to have a do everything, all situation defenseman who is a big, mean and can do everything for you. We need to consolidate a lot of ingredients into one cornerstone D. Easier said than done.

I was thinking Holl out, Mayfield in but if you want Schenn and a stud dman, somebody needs to go. I wouldn't mind trading Brodie if Lily can be better than he was in the playoffs. Love Gio but unless he is load managed, what good is he if he can't keep up in the playoffs ?