The Core Has To Go

[socko]

The biggest change for Detroit by far was Scotty Bowman. They were a run and gun team with Paul Coffey before that. First thing Scotty did was run Coffey out of town because Paul would never buy into playing the trap.

 

[SprDaVE]

At least wait until they lose 4 games...

You'd think Leafs fans would know that 3 games doesn't win a series after all these years

Can they beat Florida 4 times in a row? Absolutely. Will they? We shall see.

Can they? Sure, anything is possible. We lost so many series and games in unbelievable fashion that anything is possible.

Will they... come on lol. This is a group lead by a core of forwards that have 0 goals combined in 3 games. 4 assists. Unlucky a bit? Sure. But the writing is on the wall. It would take nothing short than a miracle for them to even win 2 games in a row.

 

[Stephen]

They said that about Yzerman in Detroit.

Yzerman made the conference finals in 1988 in his 5th year in Detroit. And obviously spent another decade in the wilderness before becoming the multiple cup legend m. Matthews and Marner are already past that mark in their careers, and the Leafs will also need to be drafting their Lidstrom and Fedorov this summer for that analogy to make any sense.

They also made big core changes, moving a legend Paul Coffey and Keith Primeau to get Shanahan.

 

[socko]

Detroit instituted a trap system that they called the Left Wing Lock and became a defensive juggernaut. The Leafs players might actually like that. I could see both Marner and Matthews thriving in a trap type of system. Neither of them are great skaters and they both take pride in playing defense.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

In hindsight was Babcock wrong about Marner ? I don't think so. Was he an asshole ? Yes, but he is smarter than every single one of us. He continually played Hyman on the top line and in clutch moments, we bitched about it. He called out Marner countless times, benched him and put him on the 4th line for not trying and his entitled attitude, we bitched about it.

Babcock was right, an asshole, but right.

mitch has had da same problem since I first coached him at 6 .. da best edgework skater I have ever seen .. helps him play in both defensive and offensive ends as no one can hit him so elusive .. but getting from A to B is a huge problem .. and then when game pace picks up he can't stop at blue line and cut/circle as he has no room to do anything but make a turnover .. if folks cared to really look into it (but they don't) you would soon learn Mitch's stride is very short and he doesn't have power to change gears so his time and space on puck is greatly reduced and he really can't do anything about da issue .. bottom line he needs someone to open up ice for him so he can make a play but we don't have that guy either .. Bab's tried to explain and tell Paul but it went on deaf ears

 

[horner]

Yzerman. Drafted in 84, his Detroit Red Wings didn't win anything until 97. And his teams were not short on natural talent. Did Detroit give up on Stevie?

You might want to recheck your facts
I just checked from 84 - 90 missed the playoffs twice
Went to the admissions finals twice
Conference finals once
Division finals twice
I would relish this with our Core

We have won one rd .

You can't compare any one to our Core never beenbdone before.

 

[saska sault]

Yzerman. Drafted in 84, his Detroit Red Wings didn't win anything until 97. And his teams were not short on natural talent. Did Detroit give up on Stevie?

Thats the way I view the Leafs as an outsider. I was lucky to grow up and get into hockey basically as soon as the Wings started winning.. my father often reminded me how long the team tried to breakthrough. Everything is magnified in Toronto and failures are in the headlines for an entire off season, when in reality... your core is pretty young and still has years to figure it out. Florida was the #1 seed last year and is getting hot at the right time after doing a shake up in the off season.. no reason Toronto can't do something in the same sense while keeping a majority of the core in place. Someone will have to go likely whether thats on the ice or in the office or both, but its not time to go scorched earth when you finally did take a step in the right direction.

 

[Drytoast]

Thats the way I view the Leafs as an outsider. I was lucky to grow up and get into hockey basically as soon as the Wings started winning.. my father often reminded me how long the team tried to breakthrough. Everything is magnified in Toronto and failures are in the headlines for an entire off season, when in reality... your core is pretty young and still has years to figure it out. Florida was the #1 seed last year and is getting hot at the right time after doing a shake up in the off season.. no reason Toronto can't do something in the same sense while keeping a majority of the core in place. Someone will have to go likely whether thats on the ice or in the office or both, but its not time to go scorched earth when you finally did take a step in the right direction.

There are two reasons why you keep the core.

- you treat your star players with respect because it helps your reputation as a place future star players wish to play.
- you hope that eventually they "figure it out" it sure as shit aint easy. If it were, everyone would be able to do it.

I agree, the Toronto market is ridiculous because it's the f***ing mecca of Hockey. Magnifies everything and we haven't won the cup in 56 years. So patience here is rather slim.

They should keep the core. And re evaluate once their contracts are up. But respect your core. They are your drafted talent. They WILL get you to the dance every season.

You might want to recheck your facts
I just checked from 84 - 90 missed the playoffs twice
Went to the admissions finals twice
Conference finals once
Division finals twice
I would relish this with our Core

We have won one rd .

You can't compare any one to our Core never beenbdone before.

If you are not winning, you are losing. Only one team wins each season.

facts are fine.

 

[horner]

Thats the way I view the Leafs as an outsider. I was lucky to grow up and get into hockey basically as soon as the Wings started winning.. my father often reminded me how long the team tried to breakthrough. Everything is magnified in Toronto and failures are in the headlines for an entire off season, when in reality... your core is pretty young and still has years to figure it out. Florida was the #1 seed last year and is getting hot at the right time after doing a shake up in the off season.. no reason Toronto can't do something in the same sense while keeping a majority of the core in place. Someone will have to go likely whether thats on the ice or in the office or both, but its not time to go scorched earth when you finally did take a step in the right direction.

One big difference cap

Our 4 eat up 40% of the cap can't build a team that way

 

[Captain Crunch]

The team has been a disappointment to put it mildly. They just don’t have it and while Dubas has moved heaven and earth to keep them together and do Cap Gymnastics putting together version after version of this group they just are winners or the type of players who hate losing more than they like winning. They are regular season superstars and that just doesn’t cut it.

Both AM and Nylander are eligible for contract extensions this summer and it’s my belief that both should be traded because trying to do the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result is the definition of insanity.

Do we again tear it down to the studs or do we keep some players?
IMO Trade:
Am
Nylander
JT-but I don’t think anybody would take him unfortunately
Lafferty
Murray-even if it’s for a coke machine
Brodie

Honestly if we can get Bedard or Fantilli or a player like Byfield plus for AM I do it. I even look at trading him to Zona to get a boatload of picks. We are up against the cap and can’t build a proper team With the type of money AM and Nylander are likely looking for. The great thing is some other team likely is willing to pay a kings ransom for them. This is not an overreaction this core sucks.

Keep
Marner
Reilly
Samsonov
Woll
Liljegren
Timmins
Knies

Do not want Marner! He is the ultimate playoff choker!!!

 

[notbias]

This board is at least consistently entertaining. Yes, trade everyone, fire everyone, let's turn into Buffalo, they are much more fun to watch.

If all our players are overpaid, how are we not sending out multiple draft picks to clean house?

 

[mjd1001]

At least wait until they lose 4 games...

You'd think Leafs fans would know that 3 games doesn't win a series after all these years

Can they beat Florida 4 times in a row? Absolutely. Will they? We shall see.

Agreed.

Is it likely to happen? No. Statistically its like a 6.5% chance. But that isn't nothing.

Fans can still have fun with the series. Don't worry about the series as a whole, worry about the next game. IF they win, then you have some hope. Down 3-1 isn't good, but it sets up a fun game where you can look forward to that game.

 

[Woodman19]

I actually dont have an issue with any of our core, I have an issue with the style of hockey we play and I think we need to overhaul the Coach and GM whos helping to enable that style.

We don't play hard enough in the tough areas of the ice and concede too much space to other teams to maintain possession. Come playoff time when games are not called the same and letting yourself get boxed out from scoring areas does not work when teams hard focus your best players. All our core players are not put into positions to succeed once the game tightens up and we would be kicking ourselves in the ass if we moved them only to crave talent in the aftermath.

 

[Aashir]

Agreed.

Is it likely to happen? No. Statistically its like a 6.5% chance. But that isn't nothing.

Fans can still have fun with the series. Don't worry about the series as a whole, worry about the next game. IF they win, then you have some hope. Down 3-1 isn't good, but it sets up a fun game where you can look forward to that game.

If they were showing up and competing then maybe you’d have some hope

After that abysmal gsme where they got outplayed and had a rookie goalie come in relief and actually take the game to OT, you think these losers are actually going to show up for game 4? They’ll mail it in the second they can

 

[LegChairGM]

I think you keep Nylander, Knies, Amirov(assuming he can play), Liljegren and Woll.
Not saying this should be the new core but can be important pieces moving forward and who knows could end up being the new core or a big part of it.

 

[BallardEra]

 

[Cujo311999]

It's the culture that turned these promising young players into entitled losers.

It starts from the top Shanny really thought he was the smartest guy in the room, thinking experience and past accomplishments didn't measure up to some kid poring over spreadsheets. There's your entitled young GM.

You could change the core all you want and it wouldn't matter until the culture changes.

The encouraging aspect of this is that you could turn this ship around quickly without having to gut a talented team.

 

[Skullz]

Tavares needs to be gone. I know he has a nmc, and makes 11 million. I don’t care, we traded Clarkson after all. There is a way, and it has to be done.

If we get a solid offer, we need to trade Marner as well. I would not panic dump him, but for a legit offer I would do it.

If Matthews does not want to resign for a reasonable number, (below McDavid) trade him as well.

I would keep Willy. His skating and skill is so elite, and he’s the only guy who did anything, again. However, he needs to resign for a reasonable amount too.

Dump Murray and 91, and we have over 15 million in cap space. Not to mention Kerfoot, Holl, and others off the books.

 

[justashadowof]

By the time Yzerman won his first Stanley Cup in 1997, there were 0 (zero) teammates of his from the 1980's teams. Only Fedorov and Lidstrom survived with Yzerman from 90/91/92. Yzerman was in his 8th NHL season when Fedorov joined the team in 1990. Many highly regarded talents came and went from Detroit before they won in 1997: Paul Coffey, Adam Oates, Gerard Gallant, Shawn Burr, Bob Probert, Jimmy Carson, Keith Primeau, Joe Murphy, Steve Chaisson, Ray Sheppard, Dino Ciccarelli, etc.

Conclusion: It took a ton of personnel changes to build a Cup winner around Steve Yzerman. You can't be afraid to make big moves when things aren't working.

 

[Woodman19]

What do you guys think is more likely, that a collective group of talented players consistently underperform to the point of worthlessness year in and year out while Keefe is a great coach? Or is it more likely that we are running a terrible system when it comes to playoff hockey that allows other teams to box out and contain our best players year after year because Keefe (and to a lesser extent Dubas) are good and our players just vanish?

 

[sxvnert]

The ENTIRE core needs to be removed. Not just WIlly because its convenient. The next GM needs to shop Matty around the league before his NMC kicks in on July 1st and move Willy. Start building for the next era because this one is cooked.

What do you guys think is more likely, that a collective group of talented players consistently underperform to the point of worthlessness year in and year out while Keefe is a great coach? Or is it more likely that we are running a terrible system when it comes to playoff hockey that allows other teams to box out and contain our best players year after year because Keefe (and to a lesser extent Dubas) are good and our players just vanish?

Multiple coaches, multiple "leadership vets", countless playoff series to change the narrative. All failed. I also dont care what any of these players do elsewhere because in TO they're not getting it done.

 

[HolyCrap]

This board is at least consistently entertaining. Yes, trade everyone, fire everyone, let's turn into Buffalo, they are much more fun to watch.

If all our players are overpaid, how are we not sending out multiple draft picks to clean house?

Lol. Moving on from the core will hopefully be the next step when competent management is brought in. You are getting close to learning. Baby steps.

 

[Woodman19]

The ENTIRE core needs to be removed. Not just WIlly because its convenient. The next GM needs to shop Matty around the league before his NMC kicks in on July 1st and move Willy. Start building for the next era because this one is cooked.


Multiple coaches, multiple "leadership vets", countless playoff series to change the narrative. All failed. I also dont care what any of these players do elsewhere because in TO they're not getting it done.

But the underlying style of playing a possession game remains. Does anyone else not see how we skate on the perimeter and are unable to get dangerous chances in front of the net because we are boxed out and are discouraged from losing possession so we skate and endlessly drop back passes until we finally lose the puck? Most of our good chances are from turnovers that lead to odd man rushes because we have a lot of skill.

 

[Albz]

Keep marner, knies n trade everyone else

 

[sxvnert]

But the underlying style of playing a possession game remains. Does anyone else not see how we skate on the perimeter and are unable to get dangerous chances in front of the net because we are boxed out and are discouraged from losing possession so we skate and endlessly drop back passes until we finally lose the puck? Most of our good chances are from turnovers that lead to odd man rushes because we have a lot of skill.

Yes because its a core of p***yes who aren't interested in going to the difficult areas of the rink. They're built for the regular season.