The Core Has To Go

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Our core forwards must be among the worst playoff performing stars in the entire league when you compare regular season to playoffs.

Career regular season vs playoff points pace (over 82 games):
1) Matthews - 92 pts vs 75 pts
2) Marner - 90 pts vs 77 pts
3) Tavares - 78 pts vs 67 pts
4) Nylander - 68 pts vs 65 pts

Nylander is the only one who doesn't drop substantially, but even he drops.

By contrast, looking at the top 5 scorers from this regular season and their career stats:
1) McDavid - 122 pts vs 128 pts
2) Draisaitl - 96 pts vs 138 pts
3) MacKinnon - 88 pts vs 106 pts
4) Pastrnak - 85 pts vs 84 pts
5) Kucherov - 93 pts vs 92 pts

3 of them elevate their production (two of them significantly), and the other two at least perform similarly.

Given what we pay our core guys and the problems it creates for the rest of our roster, this is a problem. Yea I get it, boohoo the playoffs are harder, there's less time/space, etc, but other teams stars seem to be able to figure it out.
 
I would love to trade Tavares for draft picks and prospects and -re-sign O'rielly to replace him, but that's just not possible.

When it comes to Nylander and Matthews, the team should make their decision after the extension talks begin. Neither one of these guys can enter next year as expiring contracts. Nylander's last negotiations were a disaster and I expect more of the same. He'll probably want to be overpaid by $2m/yr. I could see him being traded. Matthews will want huge money and will probably get it. If he doesn't re-sign this off-season it pretty much tells us he wants to go elsewhere though. No point in keeping him.

Marner's a decision for next summer.
Just a reminder. Nylander actually held out only to in the end get underpaid..
 
I'd keep Nylander, Rielly of the core 5, and suspect we are stuck with Tavares.

I'd resign Sammy, Kampf, Schenn & Gustafsson.

Its sad that we 2 of the most complained about defenders in Leafs history (Reilly & Schenn) is the only decent pairing we have had this playoff.
 
You have to look at the leadership of the team.

Tavares, Matthews and marner are the players who've been granted a golden hall pass.

They've abused it, moreso Matthews and marner, Tavares is Tavares.

Matthews and marner have completely dropped the ball on more than one occasion in the playoffs.

Big game stage fright.

Sigh, there was so much hope, but they're proving it is too much for them.

Be happy with regular season personal stats, or move them for lessor players with more character.
I wonder how we would fare under a Seattle Kraken type model where everyone is equal. Splash in Matthews, Nylander and Rielly. Takes off the pressure of haves vs have nots?

Dubas' vision of team salary structure is so flawed it's amazing.
 
There is something to what you say. I wonder if the playoff losing/lack of success is what leads to them not being likeable however.

Personally, I don't live in the GTA. I live in the USA, Niagara county but in the Lewiston/Youngstown area (geographically about half way betwen Buffalo and Toronto) But, I can see downtown Toronto across the lake on a clear day from here, I watch probably half of the Leafs games, and when I was a kid in the 80's and 90's I watched them so many times on HNIC I can't even remember how many games I have seen in my life.

So I'm kinda a Leafs fan. I don't live and die with their success or failures. Some times I like the team, sometimes I don't. I DO follow them all the time. But this current team is strange. I don't like them but I don't hate them. It is odd that for someone was good at Matthews, or Marner, I don't have any kind of connection or feeling about them. Nothing. Matthews may sign an extension and play his entire career on the Leafs, but i get a feeling, for myself at least, the he really is an 'outsider' of some sort.

Again, maybe all I am saying is simply a result of the team not having much success in the playoffs, but from my point of view I feel this team, this 'core' is about as disconnected from the city and fanbase as any other Leafs team I watched or followed.
Not for me so much. I still liked Kessel, JVR etc back in the day. They frustrated me but I still liked them overall.
 
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I'd resign Sammy, Kampf, Schenn & Gustafsson.

Its sad that we 2 of the most complained about defenders in Leafs history (Reilly & Schenn) is the only decent pairing we have had this playoff.
Sammy is one of the reason we’re down 3-0.

Kampf played 1 good game in 6 months.

Schenn is 33.

Gus is a disaster in his own end.
 
You have to look at the leadership of the team.

Tavares, Matthews and marner are the players who've been granted a golden hall pass.

They've abused it, moreso Matthews and marner, Tavares is Tavares.

Matthews and marner have completely dropped the ball on more than one occasion in the playoffs.

Big game stage fright.

Sigh, there was so much hope, but they're proving it is too much for them.

Be happy with regular season personal stats, or move them for lessor players with more character.
Move them for lesser players and more character. All that's missing is truculence. If only we could go back to those times.
 
Matthews shot just isn't what it used to be. One does not simply fall from 60 goals to 40 goals. He used to have that toe drag and shoot move that I just don't see anymore. So I would consider trading him for health reasons alone. He'll be almost impossible to replace though. There is like 2 other guys in the league who can score goals like him. He reminds me of Tiger Woods, great at the start but puts too much strain on his body doing his thing.

Marner I think is overrated by Leafs fans. He gets moved to Columbus and the league will forget all about him.

Tavares was a mistake from day 1. The sad part is I don't think he's much different than his prime. He was never actually all that great. So he hasn't disappointed. Dubas did, but that's another story.
 
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I wonder how we would fare under a Seattle Kraken type model where everyone is equal. Splash in Matthews, Nylander and Rielly. Takes off the pressure of haves vs have nots?

Dubas' vision of team salary structure is so flawed it's amazing.
The kraken are sealing dubas and Keefe fate
Not to mention hackstol was a coach here and Canberra may be leaving

Marner has been there best player this playoffs. Giving a $#it vs. Being mentally fragile is two different things. The guy bleeds blue and white and that’s worth having.
Well somebody has to go .this ain't working
 
I wonder how we would fare under a Seattle Kraken type model where everyone is equal. Splash in Matthews, Nylander and Rielly. Takes off the pressure of haves vs have nots?

Dubas' vision of team salary structure is so flawed it's amazing.
And Pridham. But again, it's a salary structure that didn't/couldn't anticipate the pandemic and the NHL's reaction to it.

That said, it is impossible to have three, heck, two or more players making 13 and 14% of the entire cap.

It'd be ideal if it the bar was around 10%. But...Then we're getting into crazy territory where the idea that a few less million dollars for one "superstar" provides greater depth and improved chances towards fulfilling the purpose of the salary in the first place.
 
Marner has been there best player this playoffs. Giving a $#it vs. Being mentally fragile is two different things. The guy bleeds blue and white and that’s worth having.

Maybe the problem is that our players keep bleeding all over the ice instead of scoring or defending.
 
It is a tough spot team is in .. JT Matty and Mitchy will never be playoff performers .. Willy has speed to go with his skill but he is afraid too much .. i think Matty will get biggest fetch so i would trade him .. JT could retire but he will keep trying out his contract for a Cup .. and he is untradeable without losing too much .. Willy will want more and he will get it .. thst is da toughest call as we need goals to make playoffs .. i would try a shorter term deal for Willy .. Mitch is excellent in regular season hockey so keep him .. on matty deal need a big fast shutdown D and another speedy C and a couple 1st rounders .. maybe Ottawa can do it and then unload Matty out west for what they need
 
I think if AM doesn't sign July 1 or off season they should move him for a top 3 forward and top D shutdown, and many other assets.
They need to move on from ROR,Holl, and JT needs to have a lesser role or trade him for assets and will have to retain salary....the league is getting younger can't have nearly 12 million for a 3rd liner. I think Nylander can be an asset but he is a perimeter player, he will never be a consistent playoff performer when it matters, yes he looks dangerous on the perimeter but you've got to the inside if you want to win 4 rounds of playoff hockey. They need a reliable stud shutdown D and they don't have that.
 
A post I made in another thread
Yes they should, leadership starts from the top down;

Tavares and after that Matthews, Marner, Nylander and Rielly all took the Leafs to the cleaners on their contracts, if they had taken something more reasonable, let's say 2 million savings on JT, AM, MM and 1.5 mill on WN and MR, that's 9 million they could've used for a goaltender.

Now there is nothing "wrong" with their contracts, what's "wrong" is their playoff performances. Not once have the 5 displayed a truly dominant series. Maybe they'll get it later on in their career or maybe they won't, I don't know. But right now all 5 need to be traded and unfortunately you cannot trade JT or Rielly but I would request they give me a teams list if not I would strip them of the C and A and make it very clear it's their fault.

What's crazy is how all 5 have shied away, you'd think JT would be built for the playoffs, meh..... Ok maybe somehow Willie turns it up? LMFAO NOPE! Ok Mitch is a Toronto boy raised on Don Cherry playing for his home team? Nope. Ok Auston is smooth and has a great defensive game? Who cares? Ok Morgan is playing for his dad's team and honestly the most GAF of all of them? So what?

It's been a decade of failure, look if losing to a Zamboni driver doesn't put your motivation at 99999999999999% and everyone mocking you for a decade+ doesn't do it either, nothing will.

This core had their chance, the real thing that cost them beyond their mediocre and soft play was their greed. Not only will these guys flip off the fans on the ice, they'll do it in the offseason too when they take every last penny they can get.

It started with JT who could've set the tone at 7, 8 or even 9. Nope! He's McDavid and Drai tier obviously LMFAO. Again, if all of them would've taken 1-2 mill less that is an ELITE GOALIE the team could've got or an AMAZING 2D for 6-8 mill, nahhh get their bags I guess!

You can fire coaches
You can try different 2-4D
You can try vets and experiences guys
You can try different goalies
You can try different GMs

Did any of it work? Everything changed EXCEPT the BIG 5

Let's look at the big 5 of the past 5 champions;
Tampa; Hedman/Vassy/Stamkos/Kucherov/Point
Colarado; Mack/Rant/Makar/Kadri/Landeskog
STL: Binnington/O'Rielly/AP/Schenn/Tara
Caps; Ovie/Carlson/Kuz/Backstrom/Holtby
Pit: Crosby/Malkin/Letang/Murray/Kessel

I don't think there is one team that you can say the Leafs core is clearly better than, maybe STL? But STL had Binnington who went beastmode whereas the Leafs legit have not had a goalie do anything of worth in 20+ years, but Colarado proved you just need OK goaltending and a stacked team can win it

Others have said it and it is well worth mentioning about the elevation of play, in the season teams are sloppy and not trying to take your head off, in the playoffs teams are sharp and hitting you like an 18 wheeler, the Leafs players are simply put not built to withstand that.

The 5 do not have a true 1 like we had with Hedman/Vassy....Mack....Binnington....Ovie....Crosby.

Personally the 3 of AM, WN, MM are all on the market and unless teams are offering nothing at all for them, do not keep or resign them. You can keep 1 or maybe two, all 3 of them are soft in different ways;
AM underperfoms but does other things well outside of offense
MM I think really does care and eventually will figure it out, but he takes the biggest step back
Willie sometimes rises to the ocassion, but he's not THE guy nor does he want to be, he has the talent though, maybe he'll get tired of losing later in his career

I donno, Leafs fans are numb to this BS at this point, bring all of them back next year, resign Matthews 15x10, extend Keefe another decade and make Dubas mayor of Toronto so that violent crime can go down as no one will be inspired to do anything but the softest ting under him.

Probably the most pathetic organization in sports history and on the off chance someone asks "what if they come back?" It's cup or bust with the way they bungled this series and I'd honestly rather bet against my team so no disappointment.
 
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I think if Arizona gets the #1 lottery pick, they should trade it for Matthews and sign him for the monster deal only they have the cap space for.

I think if AM doesn't sign July 1 or off season they should move him for a top 3 forward and top D shutdown, and many other assets.
July 1st his no move clause kicks in. Have to trade him before that to have full control of where he goes without his blessing.
 
I think if Arizona gets the #1 lottery pick, they should trade it for Matthews and sign him for the monster deal only they have the cap space for.


July 1st his no move clause kicks in. Have to trade him before that to have full control of where he goes without his blessing.

Thanks for pointing that out, missed that. One of the most important decisions in Maple Leaf history will be playing out in the next couple of months.
 
Sorry I'd like to see this core with a better 2nd line C and better coach and looks like we finally have a goalie before he got injured.

Colorado with Kadri, St Louis with O'Reilly. Tavares wasn't them with the Leafs.

You need to find a way to move on from Tavares. Period.
I'd love to get out from under Tavares' anchor contract too man, I just don't see another team taking on $11M for a guy who can barely skate. JT honestly has probably the worst possible character for a captain I've ever seen.

Dopey, quiet, robotic....how in God's name is he going to inspire anyone?
 
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I think if Arizona gets the #1 lottery pick, they should trade it for Matthews and sign him for the monster deal only they have the cap space for.


July 1st his no move clause kicks in. Have to trade him before that to have full control of where he goes without his blessing.
I don’t think Arizona trades the 1st overall for Matthews. They get the next potential superstar plus wait one year and sign Matthews for free potentiality. Whoever gets the 1st overall pick is not trading it.
 
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Our core forwards must be among the worst playoff performing stars in the entire league when you compare regular season to playoffs.

Career regular season vs playoff points pace (over 82 games):
1) Matthews - 92 pts vs 75 pts
2) Marner - 90 pts vs 77 pts
3) Tavares - 78 pts vs 67 pts
4) Nylander - 68 pts vs 65 pts

Nylander is the only one who doesn't drop substantially, but even he drops.

By contrast, looking at the top 5 scorers from this regular season and their career stats:
1) McDavid - 122 pts vs 128 pts
2) Draisaitl - 96 pts vs 138 pts
3) MacKinnon - 88 pts vs 106 pts
4) Pastrnak - 85 pts vs 84 pts
5) Kucherov - 93 pts vs 92 pts

3 of them elevate their production (two of them significantly), and the other two at least perform similarly.

Given what we pay our core guys and the problems it creates for the rest of our roster, this is a problem. Yea I get it, boohoo the playoffs are harder, there's less time/space, etc, but other teams stars seem to be able to figure it out.
Great post, Rielly also makes a lateral move.

It's funny we've had 8 series now to give them all a chance to win a series, not ONCE has one of them put together a ridiculous series, i.e;
Matthews GPG for a series
Mitch 2ppg for a series
Rielly 1.5ppg for a series
Nylander 1.5ppg for a series
JT 1.5ppg for a series

What's incredible beyond belief is that basically you have 2 superstars and 3 stars who have collectively played 250 games and not EVER put together a stretch of SEVEN GAMES of above their average or special play.

It's time to trade these losers. Missing the playoffs wouldn't even be worse than continuing to tolerate this atrocious product that just lets people down in the worst way possible.
 
I'd love to get out from under Tavares' anchor contract too man, I just don't see another team taking on $11M for a guy who can barely skate. JT honestly has probably the worst possible character for a captain I've ever seen.

Dopey, quiet, robotic....how in God's name is he going to inspire anyone?
If we can't get out of it, what are we doing then?

1. We are not contending for anything with him and his 11m on the cap so move on.
2. Tearing it down.
3. Remaining a regular season team for 2 years until the deal expires.
.

That's the order to follow to salvage anything. #3 is just a waste of everyone's time.
 
Must be so fun watching a core that can explode offensively at any time and win you a series with it. Must be fun watching a core like Chicago's back in the day where you had a Captain who was the most psychotic competitor ever and the rest of the team followed suit. Must be nice watching a core like LA's back in the day where come playoff time they turned into a completely different team.

Like I feel like we've been waiting for those moments since day 1 with this core and they never put it together.
 
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