The Core Has To Go

[GoonieFace]

Edmonton built their team by sucking for over half a decade while chewing through almost half a dozen first over alls until they finally got to one that was skilled enough to succeed despite the teams front office ineptitude. They abused the draft so much that the league had to make a rule to prevent any future Edmonton's from happening.

So thinking that Edmonton is the epitome as to how to build a hockey team is asinine. Let's not us compare ourselves to them.

How long am I willing to wait? As long as it takes. These are our guys. They will get us to the dance and hopefully over the course of their careers, they figure it out.

I liked Edmonton’s response to Vegas when things got chippy. Knies gets hurt and nothing…that says it all about this team.

 

[stealth1]

Edmonton built their team by sucking for over half a decade while chewing through almost half a dozen first over alls until they finally got to one that was skilled enough to succeed despite the teams front office ineptitude. They abused the draft so much that the league had to make a rule to prevent any future Edmonton's from happening.

So thinking that Edmonton is the epitome as to how to build a hockey team is asinine. Let's not us compare ourselves to them.

How long am I willing to wait? As long as it takes. These are our guys. They will get us to the dance and hopefully over the course of their careers, they figure it out.

My post was not about the way they were built but how their top guys carry the team game in and game out on the playoffs. Something Matthews and Marner have not done. I don't see it changing.

 

[Drytoast]

That is what Shanny says at every season end presser. I doubt he'll be here if they ever get t done.

Color me crazy but I think that if you want to attract future talent, that you don't shit on and chase out of town your current drafted talent. Kind of says a bad message. "why the f*** would I play for Toronto? If I don't win them a cup in 7 years they are going to publicly crucify me before running me out of town?"

San Jose never won anything during the Thorton, Marleau era...do you see them shitting all over those players?

I liked Edmonton’s response to Vegas when things got chippy. Knies gets hurt and nothing…that says it all about this team.

I agree. But the league was fresh out of wife abusers who know the value of body shots because black eyes on your wife's face are harder to explain!

 

[LDN]

Marner for Matty Tkachuck last summer was a move that we should have done

 

[BallardEra]

My biggest criticism of Keefe is how cautious we play under pressure, which leads up to stop our feet. I wouldnt say that was the issue last night though.

It totally was the issue in OT. 3 icings in a row, scared, and left Woll out to dry by not hitting a single Panther on the OT winner sequence.

 

[Gallagbi]

It totally was the issue in OT. 3 icings in a row, scared, and left Woll out to dry by not hitting a single Panther on the OT winner sequence.

We came out flying quick in the first, taking chances, moving our feet. Given Keefe's quotes after the game, that feels player driven rather than off the bench.

 

[BallardEra]

We came out flying quick in the first, taking chances, moving our feet. Given Keefe's quotes after the game, that feels player driven rather than off the bench.

Either way Keefe is gone if the Leafs don't win. He's a flawed coach and not the type who will take you all the way.

Bruce Boudreau 2.0

 

[ToneDog]

Color me crazy but I think that if you want to attract future talent, that you don't shit on and chase out of town your current drafted talent. Kind of says a bad message. "why the f*** would I play for Toronto? If I don't win them a cup in 7 years they are going to publicly crucify me before running me out of town?"

San Jose never won anything during the Thorton, Marleau era...do you see them shitting all over those players?


I agree. But the league was fresh out of wife abusers who know the value of body shots because black eyes on your wife's face are harder to explain!

I get it but the last thing I want is to end up like SJ. The Bruins traded Thornton and won a Cup. It can be done if done correctly. Time for a fresh set of eyes, ideas, and philosophies. Dubas and Keefe have run their course with this core. They have tried 5 times and failed.

 

[Gallagbi]

Either way Keefe is gone if the Leafs don't win. He's a flawed coach and not the type who will take you all the way.

Bruce Boudreau 2.0

Not my argument, but i don't think he survives this offseason

 

[ToneDog]

Marner for Matty Tkachuck last summer was a move that we should have done

Tkachuk probably wanted out of Canada.

 

[BallardEra]

Not my argument, but i don't think he survives this offseason

Yep and I'm not saying it's totally his fault either.

 

[Beneven Stanciano]

I'm sort of waiting for someone to show some underlying numbers before I form a complete opinion, I don't want to look foolish.

They still might be the best team ever. The numbers have proven me wrong when I saw play like this at points in the regular season. I remember thinking they looked terrible at certain points which worried me, but the numbers still suggested elite team defence!

Thanks to the statisticians who talked me off that ledge!

 

[usernamezrhardtodo]

It's not really a problem where all the core players are actually terrible, they're just too similar and their strengths and weaknesses don't really mesh together. I think if you move on from Marner and Tavares and replace them with players who are less talented but bring a more diverse skillset we'd be in a better spot. I'm sure Marner will be great wherever he goes but I don't think he can handle the pressure of playing for his boyhood team

I have always said that MM's problem is he cares TOO much and it makes him lock up when it counts. They don't mesh because they are all basically the same player in many ways. There is no compliment when it comes to them....they are all guys who have ZERO mean streak in them and prefer to play nice...the whole organization stinks of niceness and it infects everyone from the top down. LeBrun said as much a few years ago when a GM pointed that out about the Leafs.

So, if that is the case and it's coming from up high...the whole management crew and coach need to walk the plank. There is no fixing this by bringing in an O'Reilly because he is a complementary player and not a core guy. We need JAM and all we have is peanut butter.

 

[PromisedLand]

Core seems week need to do more planks

on a serious note:

Have to trade one of Marner/Matthews you cannot keep them both at their cap hits. I'd be willing to keep Matthews provided he agrees to an extension before July 1st at a reasonable cap hit for 8 years knowing full well that Leafs will quasi-tank the next 3 seasons to build a more balanced roster. Similarly for Nylander, willing to keep him as long as he agrees to a reasonable extension, if his ask is massive then trade him too.

One thing is a given-> Matthews, Marner, Nylander, Tavares taking the bulk of the cap and not producing in the playoffs is proof enough that together they are misfit.

Somethings gotta give.

I know dubas has traded the 2025 1st round pick (top 10 protected); but it is what it is; you adjust and deal accordingly.

The question boils down to: Is MLSE -> i.e. Bell/Rogers/Tannembaum willing to forego any playoff revenue in the near future for another rebuild/retool?

 

[LeafGrief]

Color me crazy but I think that if you want to attract future talent, that you don't shit on and chase out of town your current drafted talent. Kind of says a bad message. "why the f*** would I play for Toronto? If I don't win them a cup in 7 years they are going to publicly crucify me before running me out of town?"

San Jose never won anything during the Thorton, Marleau era...do you see them shitting all over those players?


I agree. But the league was fresh out of wife abusers who know the value of body shots because black eyes on your wife's face are harder to explain!

7 years! If a UFA thinks they need 7 years to figure things out here, they can stay away. We have coddled these guys for 7 damn years and got nothing but regular season wins from them. They have been given big minutes, their choices of line mates, endorsement deals, tens of millions of dollars, legions of screaming fans, and never heard a word of criticism from their coach. They have been coddled more than any players in the history of the NHL and they have delivered nothing when it matters.

The bad message is that this organization is not serious with its players. This is a country club, as bad as the Muskoka Five. Why would any player serious about winning sign here?

Thornton and Marleau’s Sharks at least made it to the conference finals every now and then.

 

[Metroid]

Marner for Matty Tkachuck last summer was a move that we should have done

Was that even an option?

 

[Aashir]

San Jose never won anything during the Thorton, Marleau era...do you see them shitting all over those players?

You are acting like people remember thorton and marleau well. They are remembered as playoff choker #1 and playoff choker #2. They even made finals and conference finals but those two made sure that couture’s performances were wasted

 

[LeafsandSharksfan]

It's not really a problem where all the core players are actually terrible, they're just too similar and their strengths and weaknesses don't really mesh together. I think if you move on from Marner and Tavares and replace them with players who are less talented but bring a more diverse skillset we'd be in a better spot. I'm sure Marner will be great wherever he goes but I don't think he can handle the pressure of playing for his boyhood team

Yup, after facing every type of opponent in every type of situation maybe it's time to accept that this combination of players on this team with this coaching staff isn't a combination that can contend for a cup.

 

[Rob Brown]

Marner for Matty Tkachuck last summer was a move that we should have done

He wanted to leave Canada.

 

[PromisedLand]

Yzerman. Drafted in 84, his Detroit Red Wings didn't win anything until 97. And his teams were not short on natural talent. Did Detroit give up on Stevie?

Bowman basically came in and told StevieY to change the way he plays or he will not be a Red Wing.

Over here Leafs coaches ask players to play a certain way and they throw a hissy fit. One coach gets fired and another coach does a takesy backsy the following day in the media availability. All this due to the culture that is fostered by a loser of a GM

 

[Aashir]

Bowman basically came in and told StevieY to change the way he plays or he will not be a Red Wing.

Over here Leafs coaches ask players to play a certain way and they throw a hissy fit. One coach gets fired and another coach does a takesy backsy the following day in the media availability. All this due to the culture that is fostered by a loser of a GM

LOOOOOOOOOL

I forgot about this classic gem from the season. Our elite players weren’t all that elite in that one. LOL. I guess keefe is an idiot, but he got that one right. Too bad he’s too much of a p***y to stand by ot

 

[PromisedLand]

It starts from the top, Shanahan needs to go. The entire organization needs to be stripped down and rebuilt, he tried his philosophy out of this new NHL, where it's all skill and 0 grit and it has failed miserably. Unless there is some miracle and these guys pull it off and win in 7, strip the entire thing. President/GM/Coach/Core, major overhaul.

I still can;t wrap my head around what BS did dubas sell shanahan that shanny bought it without second guessing it. its just so wrong the way this team plays compared to the way shanny played hockey.

Its the only thing that confuses the crap out of me

 

[Bomber0104]

LOOOOOOOOOL

I forgot about this classic gem from the season. Our elite players weren’t all that elite in that one. LOL. I guess keefe is an idiot, but he got that one right. Too bad he’s too much of a p***y to stand by ot

"I used some of the wrong words.."

 

[WillNy29]

I only sign Mathews if he accepts a reasonable contract. If he wants more than McKinnon or McDavid he has to go on principal. Over paying him and his side kick have put a huge clamp on the ability to win post season. I move Marner this off season. If both go so be it, huge cap space and a good GM (not Dubas) should be able to bring 4 really good pieces back, plus prospects for MM and AM. I investigate Dubois as a FA he could be a good first line center, with grit. Team make up HAS to change dramatically.

Dubois has 0 grit he's just a dirty hockey player that's not grit it would be nice to stop confusing the two. He's also going to Montreal and has made that abundantly clear. just deal with it we will part ways with Matthews and not have a 1C again for 12 years like last time, its what everyone here seems to want.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

Core seems week need to do more planks

on a serious note:

Have to trade one of Marner/Matthews you cannot keep them both at their cap hits. I'd be willing to keep Matthews provided he agrees to an extension before July 1st at a reasonable cap hit for 8 years knowing full well that Leafs will quasi-tank the next 3 seasons to build a more balanced roster. Similarly for Nylander, willing to keep him as long as he agrees to a reasonable extension, if his ask is massive then trade him too.

One thing is a given-> Matthews, Marner, Nylander, Tavares taking the bulk of the cap and not producing in the playoffs is proof enough that together they are misfit.

Somethings gotta give.

I know dubas has traded the 2025 1st round pick (top 10 protected); but it is what it is; you adjust and deal accordingly.

The question boils down to: Is MLSE -> i.e. Bell/Rogers/Tannembaum willing to forego any playoff revenue in the near future for another rebuild/retool?

It is not $$$ thing with owners they are all multi billionaires many times over .. Larry's $25M per dividend happens every year irrespective of playoffs .. rest of $$$ just goes into bank .. da real question is does Shanny gets to choose another GM or is he removed too??? .. i think Shanny is fine .. my guess is he appoints Spezza and Dubas stays on as an analytics advisor with 10% raise .. then Spezza must decide between Matty and Mitch???