The Core Has To Go

[notbias]

Lol. Moving on from the core will hopefully be the next step when competent management is brought in. You are getting close to learning. Baby steps.

But we will be sending out all our high-end prospects and picks to get rid of the overpaid and underachieving core... unless the core is not viewed the same way as our fans by other GMs... but that is impossible because they are great hockey minds.

 

[Albz]

Keepers

AM - If he agrees to extend here in advance.
Nylander
JT
Rielly
ROR - If possible
Lilgrin
Sammy
Woll
Bunting
Schenn
McCabe
Gustaffsson

I think I am good with that and you could probably get some decent assets from Marner and AM to build down the line. Probably get to stash some 1st round picks and be able to entice some vets around JT's age.

Honestly I think we could still be a playoff team even.

So you want to trade our best player Marner eh. The only player we should keep is Marner and knies. The rest all trade

 

[mjd1001]

The case for trading the 'core' (to me I'd trade/get the best I can for Matthews and Marner)

-If you think Culture is a problem, 2 or 3 of the big 4 need to go. You aren't going to deal no-one or just Nylander, and bring a guy in who will take over the room from the other guys. You need to flush that out, again, if you think culture in the room is an issue.

-These guys aren't worth nothing. If you trade Matthews and Marner, you are getting a LOT in return. Maybe you get less talent back, but if that could also mean more cap space. You can get slightly less talent back for them, but get some picks with that AND have more cap space to re-sign the guys you want to or go out and get some one else.

-Finally, if they lose this series in 4 or 5...and you do NOT make any moves, just how much can we enjoy this team. They could compete for the presidents trophy next year but its getting to the point where it is almost not even enjoyable. With a new core, we get to watch/talk about something new. With this same core, NOTHING will matter except/until the middle of April of next year.

 

[sxvnert]

After each failure the media/management/apologists had an excuse: Its the goaltending (Andersen, Campbell), its the D, they're young (need leadership), they're not deep enough, etc, etc. Excuse time is over.

Keepers

AM - If he agrees to extend here in advance.
Nylander
JT
Rielly
ROR - If possible
Lilgrin
Sammy
Woll
Bunting
Schenn
McCabe
Gustaffsson

I think I am good with that and you could probably get some decent assets from Marner and AM to build down the line. Probably get to stash some 1st round picks and be able to entice some vets around JT's age.

Honestly I think we could still be a playoff team even.

Sell AM to the highest bidder and move on. The last thing this team needs is to pay him 14-15m to eat up future cap. You could find similar combined production with three 5m players.

 

[horner]

I actually dont have an issue with any of our core, I have an issue with the style of hockey we play and I think we need to overhaul the Coach and GM whos helping to enable that style.

We don't play hard enough in the tough areas of the ice and concede too much space to other teams to maintain possession. Come playoff time when games are not called the same and letting yourself get boxed out from scoring areas does not work when teams hard focus your best players. All our core players are not put into positions to succeed once the game tightens up and we would be kicking ourselves in the ass if we moved them only to crave talent in the aftermath.

Unless MLSE doesn't take charge of this we are domed then .
Keefe doesn't have a system just run baby run

 

[BallardEra]

 

[Stephen]

What do you guys think is more likely, that a collective group of talented players consistently underperform to the point of worthlessness year in and year out while Keefe is a great coach? Or is it more likely that we are running a terrible system when it comes to playoff hockey that allows other teams to box out and contain our best players year after year because Keefe (and to a lesser extent Dubas) are good and our players just vanish?

Suboptimal coaching can only explain some of it. Keefe isn’t coaching then to do what they did in Game 2 that cost them the series or no show Game 3.

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

It's not really a problem where all the core players are actually terrible, they're just too similar and their strengths and weaknesses don't really mesh together. I think if you move on from Marner and Tavares and replace them with players who are less talented but bring a more diverse skillset we'd be in a better spot. I'm sure Marner will be great wherever he goes but I don't think he can handle the pressure of playing for his boyhood team

 

[Menzinger]

Suboptimal coaching can only explain some of it. Keefe isn’t coaching then to do what they did in Game 2 that cost them the series or no show Game 3.

Game 3 really was the most frustrating thing in that the Leafs arguably played better than Florida for the majority of the first 120 minutes of the series. And then they looked like maybe the better team for less than 10 minutes last game.

That's not on coaching (not to absolve Keefe overall, mind you), Marner and Matthews just mentally collapsed and that's absolutely on them

 

[GoonieFace]

But we will be sending out all our high-end prospects and picks to get rid of the overpaid and underachieving core... unless the core is not viewed the same way as our fans by other GMs... but that is impossible because they are great hockey minds.

The problem is, individually they are good, as a collective they are not. You can have 1, maybe 2 of these type players, but not 4. Ship 2 out for some more well rounded players and call it a rebuild. Hopefully with a new coach

 

[All Mod Cons]

But we will be sending out all our high-end prospects and picks to get rid of the overpaid and underachieving core... unless the core is not viewed the same way as our fans by other GMs... but that is impossible because they are great hockey minds.

High end prospects and picks? Lol.

Kyle has left us with neither of those things.

 

[notbias]

The problem is, individually they are good, as a collective they are not. You can have 1, maybe 2 of these type players, but not 4. Ship 2 out for some more well rounded players and call it a rebuild. Hopefully with a new coach

And Rielly too... clearly a problem, he has been here the longest

 

[sunstersun]

Marner is the worst out of Nylander and Matthews.

Tavares is in another league for how bad he is.

 

[sxvnert]

High end prospects and picks? Lol.

Kyle has left us with neither of those things.

and hes celebrated for it.

 

[BigBadBruins7708]

It's not so much that your core can/cant win, the bigger issue is they are eating up too much cap space as a group.

It's handcuffing you from adding the scoring depth and D depth needed to win in the playoffs. Basically its a guarantee at some point that everyone's stud players are going to be neutralized in a series and the 3rd line is going to have to step up and get it done or the defense is going to have to tighten it up and scratch out wins.

 

[pspot]

zona wins the lotto tonight, leafs trade Matthews for Bedard.

 

[Gallagbi]

Game 3 really was the most frustrating thing in that the Leafs arguably played better than Florida for the majority of the first 120 minutes of the series. And then they looked like maybe the better team for less than 10 minutes last game.

That's not on coaching (not to absolve Keefe overall, mind you), Marner and Matthews just mentally collapsed and that's absolutely on them

You look at the issues and most are decision making or compete. Tough for a coach to adjust those.

My biggest criticism of Keefe is how cautious we play under pressure, which leads up to stop our feet. I wouldnt say that was the issue last night though.

Keefe isnt a perfect coach, but most of these issues look mental rather than usage or systems

 

[stealth1]

There are two reasons why you keep the core.

- you treat your star players with respect because it helps your reputation as a place future star players wish to play.
- you hope that eventually they "figure it out" it sure as shit aint easy. If it were, everyone would be able to do it.

I agree, the Toronto market is ridiculous because it's the f***ing mecca of Hockey. Magnifies everything and we haven't won the cup in 56 years. So patience here is rather slim.

They should keep the core. And re evaluate once their contracts are up. But respect your core. They are your drafted talent. They WILL get you to the dance every season.


If you are not winning, you are losing. Only one team wins each season.

facts are fine.

How much are you willing to wait for this core to actually preform in the playoffs. After this many seasons this is what they are. They aren't playoff performers and they have never shown they can carry the team like Oilers top 2 are doing and like Jack Hughes did yesterday for the Devils.

 

[Gallagbi]

It's not so much that your core can/cant win, the bigger issue is they are eating up too much cap space as a group.

It's handcuffing you from adding the scoring depth and D depth needed to win in the playoffs. Basically its a guarantee at some point that everyone's stud players are going to be neutralized in a series and the 3rd line is going to have to step up and get it done or the defense is going to have to tighten it up and scratch out wins.

Weve lost 3 games this series, each by a goal with our core not scoring. Depth's been fine this playoff and specifically this round.

 

[SoVi3t]

That's pretty much the norm. Can't remember the last time he was healthy.

It's pretty much my default whenever he plays like this. He has no presence on the ice

 

[sxvnert]

 

[sunstersun]

View attachment 704780

If Marner was playing like a selke candidate, I could forgive him. But he's been game breakingly bad defensively.

Game 2, the worst pass turnover to a GWG ever, then last game 7-9 giveaways.

Nylander's 0 defensive effort is ironically much better than Marner selke performances.

 

[Gallagbi]

View attachment 704780

So weird to change Matthews games in that graphic

 

[Drytoast]

How much are you willing to wait for this core to actually preform in the playoffs. After this many seasons this is what they are. They aren't playoff performers and they have never shown they can carry the team like Oilers top 2 are doing and like Jack Hughes did yesterday for the Devils.

Edmonton built their team by sucking for over half a decade while chewing through almost half a dozen first over alls until they finally got to one that was skilled enough to succeed despite the teams front office ineptitude. They abused the draft so much that the league had to make a rule to prevent any future Edmonton's from happening.

So thinking that Edmonton is the epitome as to how to build a hockey team is asinine. Let's not us compare ourselves to them.

How long am I willing to wait? As long as it takes. These are our guys. They will get us to the dance and hopefully over the course of their careers, they figure it out.

 

[ToneDog]

Edmonton built their team by sucking for over half a decade while chewing through almost half a dozen first over alls until they finally got to one that was skilled enough to succeed despite the teams front office ineptitude. They abused the draft so much that the league had to make a rule to prevent any future Edmonton's from happening.

So thinking that Edmonton is the epitome as to how to build a hockey team is asinine. Let's not us compare ourselves to them.

How long am I willing to wait? As long as it takes. These are our guys. They will get us to the dance and hopefully over the course of their careers, they figure it out.

That is what Shanny says at every season end presser. I doubt he'll be here if they ever get t done.