The Core Has To Go

[Donnie740]

The only unmoveable core I see is Holl and Kerfoot. Dubas has no business giving these 2 more latitude than the better players.
Stubborn stubborn man

Mercifully, Holl and Kerfoot are both UFAs.

And since Dubas is no longer around to give both of them multi year deals at $3M per, those two gimps will be gone.

 

[LeafSteel]

Opinion: Maple Leafs Parting with Kyle Dubas Rings Alarm Bells — The Hockey News

Rachel Doerrie discusses the decision-making process for the Toronto Maple Leafs and why parting with GM Kyle Dubas raises eyebrows.

apple.news

Disheartening and damning indictment of how dysfunctional the Rogers & Bell model is.

It sounds like the discord comes well beyond Shanahan vs Dubas, and comes from much higher.

If you didn’t have concerns that our current ownership is inherently flawed, this paints a pretty bleak picture.

Do we even have a viable structure in place to get past this? It just seems like it’s gotten worse and worse over time.

 

[notDatsyuk]

That all depends where you trade him and what their needs are. Maybe one of those pieces I referred to comes from the trade. Maybe it's a contract that's one or two years longer than you would like, maybe it's one or two million dollars higher than you would like, but it's at a position where we can actually use the player and the value isn't so bad.

Well, I admire your optimism, and hope you're right.

 

[Kaladin]

Nylander is going to ask for 10+
Matthews is going to ask for 13.5+

Either the leafs are okay with it or you trade them. People thinking it’ll be any lower are in dream land. Nylander thinks he was underpaid on the last one and gave in and watched Matthews and marner go on to cash in. He’s coming for blood.

Matthews has all the leverage and has shown an unwillingness to give discounts in the past. Blessing in disguise for Dubas he didn’t have to deal with these extensions tbh because whatever happens mgmt will get flak.

 

[NVious]

Nylander is going to ask for 10+
Matthews is going to ask for 13.5+

Either the leafs are okay with it or you trade them. People thinking it’ll be any lower are in dream land. Nylander thinks he was underpaid on the last one and gave in and watched Matthews and marner go on to cash in. He’s coming for blood.

Matthews has all the leverage and has shown an unwillingness to give discounts in the past. Blessing in disguise for Dubas he didn’t have to deal with these extensions tbh because whatever happens mgmt will get flak.

In the old days they'd say "the inmates are running the asylum"

Now it's "the tik tok zoomers are dabbing in the asylum"

Just crazy to think after 7 years of failure and the massive raises, they still want more.

Almost like winning is secondary to money, almost like the name on the back means more than the crest on the front.

 

[Sniper99]

Mercifully, Holl and Kerfoot are both UFAs.

And since Dubas is no longer around to give both of them multi year deals at $3M per, those two gimps will be gone.

I wouldnt be surprised if Kerfoot is back next year and in a way I hope he is back. Yes he makes mistakes but who doesnt? and doesnt score 30 goals but he plays with heart and busts his ass off even going back to his Colorado days.

 

[Superstar]

Nylander is going to ask for 10+
Matthews is going to ask for 13.5+

Either the leafs are okay with it or you trade them. People thinking it’ll be any lower are in dream land. Nylander thinks he was underpaid on the last one and gave in and watched Matthews and marner go on to cash in. He’s coming for blood.

Matthews has all the leverage and has shown an unwillingness to give discounts in the past. Blessing in disguise for Dubas he didn’t have to deal with these extensions tbh because whatever happens mgmt will get flak.

Nylander could asks, but I don't see any team paying $10 plus million for Nylander, so why should Toronto?

 

[Squiffy]

I don't think a team is allowed re-sign a player they just bought out.

Only after a year.

No, you can do it, you’re thinking, like I was a few days ago before I reread the section, of the compliance buyouts that happened off the lockout, regular course buyouts don’t have that restriction. Flames did it with Michael Stone 4 years ago, for example.

 

[TakeTheBody]

I don't think you blow it up. Changes? For sure. This was the best team the Leafs brought to the playoffs in a long time. Opening round we beat the best goalie in the world ( who wasn't even the best goalie in Florida as we later find out). Next round, Bruins upset, life is good. Then we run into the hottest goalie around who's finally living up to his worst goalie contract in hockey.
I think Keefe mismanaged the Panther series badly. I think Keefe should be fired. We ran into BOB who isn't letting pucks by him. He beat the Bruins who had a historic season, he beat the Leafs best playoff team in a long time. And he's about to take his team to the finals. I did like Dubas but not a fan of theatrics. Don't like Keefe. Shanahan I don't really trust. All this being said we lost to BOB. I think we are still still close. I hate the way management and Dubas leak stories now. Fire Keefe, hire a GM. Sign Matthews and move either Styles or Marner. We're stuck with pajama boy.

 

[Kalaish26]

If what CJ reported is true and the core is most likely going to stay intact that is extremely disappointing and we are just setting us up for another year of the same sh**. It would be literally insanity. It is also disappointing that even if we hire a new GM, there will be no time to move one of the core members that should be moved (Marner) prior to their NMC kicking in July first. Don't see him waiving after July 1st either.

I can already picture the new GM (assuming its not Pridham) wasting next season on "evaluating" the roster. I will reserve judgement on Shanny, but as of right now I feel like things are shaping up to tKW a turn for the worse in what is our most important offseason in recent memory.

 

[Superstar]

I don't think you blow it up. Changes? For sure. This was the best team the Leafs brought to the playoffs in a long time. Opening round we beat the best goalie in the world ( who wasn't even the best goalie in Florida as we later find out). Next round, Bruins upset, life is good. Then we run into the hottest goalie around who's finally living up to his worst goalie contract in hockey.
I think Keefe mismanaged the Panther series badly. I think Keefe should be fired. We ran into BOB who isn't letting pucks by him. He beat the Bruins who had a historic season, he beat the Leafs best playoff team in a long time. And he's about to take his team to the finals. I did like Dubas but not a fan of theatrics. Don't like Keefe. Shanahan I don't really trust. All this being said we lost to BOB. I think we are still still close. I hate the way management and Dubas leak stories now. Fire Keefe, hire a GM. Sign Matthews and move either Styles or Marner. We're stuck with pajama boy.

This team is not close to winning a Cup...if it wasn't for additions like ROR, Acciari and Schenn, they wouldn't have beaten Tampa...the core doesn't have it...who are the Leafs going to add at the trade deadline next season that's going to help them win round 1? And how many assets do the Leafs have left that they could keep flushing down the drain at the trade deadline?

If what CJ reported is true and the core is most likely going to stay intact that is extremely disappointing and we are just setting us up for another year of the same sh**. It would be literally insanity. It is also disappointing that even if we hire a new GM, there will be no time to move one of the core members that should be moved (Marner) prior to their NMC kicking in July first. Don't see him waiving after July 1st either.

I can already picture the new GM (assuming its not Pridham) wasting next season on "evaluating" the roster. I will reserve judgement on Shanny, but as of right now I feel like things are shaping up to tKW a turn for the worse in what is our most important offseason in recent memory.

Maybe Pridham is already taking phone calls on the core and making notes for the incumbent GM.

 

[Squiffy]

Tell me straight up, does anyone here really, I mean for really real, think that we are waking up June 30th in a world where one of Nylander or Matthews has been traded?

I mean is it an honest expectation, or just groundwork for being able to complain about it as if we’d have done better? I’ve been here a long time, I understand, I get it.. this why we talk and have these discussions, because we care.. but does anyone really actually expect it, heart of hearts? I just don’t even see it as plausible.

 

[Buds17]

Tell me straight up, does anyone here really, I mean for really real, think that we are waking up June 30th in a world where one of Nylander or Matthews has been traded?

I mean is it an honest expectation, or just groundwork for being able to complain about it as if we’d have done better? I’ve been here a long time, I understand, I get it.. this why we talk and have these discussions, because we care.. but does anyone really actually expect it, heart of hearts? I just don’t even see it as plausible.

No real urgency with Nylander on July 1st since he'd only have a veto of ten teams starting then. I somewhat think that having a new GM - with the potential for a new coach as well - may actually lessen the possibility of a major trade occurring so soon.

 

[Squiffy]

No real urgency with Nylander on July 1st since he'd only have a veto of ten teams starting then. I somewhat think that having a new GM - with the potential for a new coach as well - may actually lessen the possibility of a major trade occurring so soon.

I don’t think it’s as drastic a deadline as is being made out. Far more nuanced than a black and white July 1 = all hope is lost if not signed. I mean fine, the doomsday scenario exists, sure, but seems unlikely. Matthews they will sign, July 1, Jan 1, whatever, they can’t afford to let him go, the rest.. as you say, the absolute emergency doesn’t exist.

 

[Notsince67]

If what CJ reported is true and the core is most likely going to stay intact that is extremely disappointing and we are just setting us up for another year of the same sh**. It would be literally insanity. It is also disappointing that even if we hire a new GM, there will be no time to move one of the core members that should be moved (Marner) prior to their NMC kicking in July first. Don't see him waiving after July 1st either.

I can already picture the new GM (assuming its not Pridham) wasting next season on "evaluating" the roster. I will reserve judgement on Shanny, but as of right now I feel like things are shaping up to tKW a turn for the worse in what is our most important offseason in recent memory.

Uh huh. Trade Marner who is the only leaf in 20 years with a game winning goal in the second round. That will solve everything.

 

[namttebih]

Could Matthews and Murray land a package like:
Cooley
Hayton
Crouse
Sodertrom
?

Could Marner and McCabe land a package like:
Konecny
Laughton
Tippett
Provorov
?

It's a bit of a step back, but it creates a new core with a couple of young vets who play the right way.

It doesn't sound like Cooley will ever play for the Coyotes. Matthews would be a good face for the team moving to SLC or Houston - even if only for 2 years.

Provorov's religious/political views might make it a moot point.

Would love to see Marner play for Torts.

Would packages like this make losing our 2 best players more palatable?

 

[Kalaish26]

Uh huh. Trade Marner who is the only leaf in 20 years with a game winning goal in the second round. That will solve everything.

JT is not moveable, Matthews you 100% try to work out a deal (unless his demands are beyond unreasonable), and Nylander is a pending UFA. Marner is not the only problem on this team so other moves would obviously have to be made, but he has more term on his contract and we could probably get a decent haul for him. He is extremely skilled and therefore will rack up points, but his softness does not translate well to playoff hockey. At least we can use his cap space to hopefully add multiple pieces that can contribute and change the makeup of the team and be tougher to play against come playoff time.

Marner scored the GWG in our only win against Florida? Great, that is not good enough. Since he has signed his massive contract Marner has 5 playoff goals in the last 30 playoff games to put things in perspective.

 

[ToneDog]

JT is not moveable, Matthews you 100% try to work out a deal (unless his demands are beyond unreasonable), and Nylander is a pending UFA. Marner is not the only problem on this team so other moves would obviously have to be made, but he has more term on his contract and we could probably get a decent haul for him. He is extremely skilled and therefore will rack up points, but his softness does not translate well to playoff hockey. At least we can use his cap space to hopefully add multiple pieces that can contribute and change the makeup of the team and be tougher to play against come playoff time.

Marner scored the GWG in our only win against Florida? Great, that is not good enough. Since he has signed his massive contract Marner has 5 playoff goals in the last 30 playoff games to put things in perspective.

Kerfoot scored an OT winner for us to put us up 3-1 vs Tampa. Is that enough to keep him?

 

[ShaneFalco]

Tell me straight up, does anyone here really, I mean for really real, think that we are waking up June 30th in a world where one of Nylander or Matthews has been traded?

I mean is it an honest expectation, or just groundwork for being able to complain about it as if we’d have done better? I’ve been here a long time, I understand, I get it.. this why we talk and have these discussions, because we care.. but does anyone really actually expect it, heart of hearts? I just don’t even see it as plausible.

Probably not
Unless they get a sense that AM is asking for the moon, I don't see them moving him
MM on the other hand - polarizing figure, under-performs in the playoffs each year, entitled.....

 

[Notsince67]

JT is not moveable, Matthews you 100% try to work out a deal (unless his demands are beyond unreasonable), and Nylander is a pending UFA. Marner is not the only problem on this team so other moves would obviously have to be made, but he has more term on his contract and we could probably get a decent haul for him. He is extremely skilled and therefore will rack up points, but his softness does not translate well to playoff hockey. At least we can use his cap space to hopefully add multiple pieces that can contribute and change the makeup of the team and be tougher to play against come playoff time.

Marner scored the GWG in our only win against Florida? Great, that is not good enough. Since he has signed his massive contract Marner has 5 playoff goals in the last 30 playoff games to put things in perspective.

Soft eh?
He is almost identical to draisaitl in career playoff hits. I don't know how you define soft but it is a trope often misassociated with Marner. He doesn't crush anyone but he is physical relative to a lot of skilled players

 

[LeafGrief]

Soft eh?
He is almost identical to draisaitl in career playoff hits. I don't know how you define soft but it is a trope often misassociated with Marner. He doesn't crush anyone but he is physical relative to a lot of skilled players

I'd call one goal in his last 9 playoff games soft. Throwing seven hits in game 5 after the team was all but dead is fine and dandy, but maybe he could have put some of that effort into the zero hit, zero point efforts he put up in games 1 and 3 of that series.

Marner isn't overly soft in terms of playstyle, but he's mentally the softest player on the team. Zero resilience and is the first to disappear when the team faces adversity. He's the straw that stirs the drink during the regular season, but snaps in half at the first sign of trouble. Soft has very little to do with bouncing his 180 pound frame off Radko Gudas and has everything to do with being willing to go to war for your team. I don't give a damn if he's throwing hits, he's a soft leader and that kills us year after year after year.

 

[budzz]

Well Carolina has managed only 3 goals in 3 games against the Panthers, who seemed to get hot at exactly the right time. They are the President's trophy winners from last year too, so not a complete fluke. Both Boston and Tampa will take a step back next year, so the East is there for the taking. I do think one of Marner or Willie need to be moved out for some size. 2 soft wingers is one too many. Add some beef in the top 6, the bottom 6 can be rebuilt with some snarl too. Our D isn't bad, and should be better without Holl and with Lilly playing full time. Move willy out for a big snarly top 4 d (wouldn't mind schenn back at all either).

Bottom 6 is practically a blank canvas and can shape a different team in a hurry. We are not as far off as some may think.

 

[Notsince67]

I'd call one goal in his last 9 playoff games soft. Throwing seven hits in game 5 after the team was all but dead is fine and dandy, but maybe he could have put some of that effort into the zero hit, zero point efforts he put up in games 1 and 3 of that series.

Marner isn't overly soft in terms of playstyle, but he's mentally the softest player on the team. Zero resilience and is the first to disappear when the team faces adversity. He's the straw that stirs the drink during the regular season, but snaps in half at the first sign of trouble. Soft has very little to do with bouncing his 180 pound frame off Radko Gudas and has everything to do with being willing to go to war for your team. I don't give a damn if he's throwing hits, he's a soft leader and that kills us year after year after year.

Yet still top 10 in points this year in playoffs despite being eliminated in the prior round. Disappear? Leads the team. And great redefinition of the word soft btw. Sounds like you have your debating points all lined up

 

[LeafGrief]

Yet still top 10 in points this year in playoffs despite being eliminated in the prior round. Disappear? Leads the team. And great redefinition of the word soft btw. Sounds like you have your debating points all lined up

"Disappear? Leads the team"

That right there is the entire crux of the issue. That he is one of our team's biggest leaders and he does disappear. He puts up 11 points in six games against Tampa and there's not a single peep of complaint because why would there be? He did his job and led from the front, playing the way that we all want him to. Then he puts up 3 points in five against Florida and people come out to complain exactly because he disappeared. 0 goals against CBJ, 0 goals against MTL, only ever scored in games 1 and 2 against Tampa, he literally does not produce when we need him the most. Who the f*** cares if he throws hits when he's paid to put up points? Who the hell cares that he was a star in round 1 when he disappeared in round 2?

Year after year after year Marner has let us down. Seven hits as we roll over and die isn't impressive at all. Defining soft/hard as the number of hits you throw is a definition that doesn't fool anyone. You're right he leads the team, and under his leadership the Leafs bow out again and again. My debating points are all about how the leadership structure of this team is a colossal failure and the guys at the front are exactly where the blame lies.

 

[ShaneFalco]

Bottom 6 is practically a blank canvas and can shape a different team in a hurry. We are not as far off as some may think.

The annual, we barely lost to the eventual SC finalists/champs