GoonieFace
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A tub of ice cream and a Murder She Wrote marathon
The Core Has To Go
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notDatsyuk
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- Jul 20, 2018
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Over the last 9 games (all the tight ones), Rielly and Marner have eight points; Matthews, Nylander and ROR have seven (JT has four).
TOI:
Rielly: 226:16
Marner:224:13
Matthews: 216:55
O'Reilly: 182:41
Nylander: 174:44
Tavares: 174:17
PP TOI:
Rielly: 24:11
Marner: 27:54
Matthews: 27:19
O'Reilly: 23:06
Nylander: 14:31
Tavares: 28:29
With significantly less ice time (and roughly half the PP time), Willy is right there in scoring.
Even if you ignore the 'eye test', the numbers show if pretty clearly. And those are the 'hard' numbers - from what I've seen, the 'soft' numbers are even more on his favour.
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Dressing 7 D in the playoffs should tell fans how much they trust the guys back there.
notDatsyuk
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He has 'stockpiled' two 'elite' forwards, two 'used to be almost elite' forwards, and one 'elite in the regular season but disappears when it gets serious' forward, along with a bunch of mediocre third liners and a couple of decent fourth liners.
Buds17
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- Nov 29, 2015
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The Leafs can't advance to the next round though if we disregard the first win against Tampa!
Nylander fared well offensively during the playoffs. If the numbers are being honest, The Core Four, Rielly, ROR, and even Knies - for the number of games he played in - led the way in that regard (albeit not entirely in that order). It's a bit unfortunate that the decline essentially began just after them. A few players signed to decent money and/or term in that group as well (Kerfoot, Jarnkrok, Brodie).
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notDatsyuk
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Pretty much the only thing we can do is let his contract run out (and please, please, PLEASE don't re-sign him).
The problem is that Dubas arranged to have the contracts of his two best players expire first, and they'll expect raises while we're still dragging JT's anchor.
About the best we can hope for is they agree to take a one-year bridge deal at roughly the same rate, with the promise that they get more as soon as JT's expires. Otherwise, it's trade one of the three, or make the team worse by making the payroll even more top-heavy.
From a purely offensive standpoint I agree, but he certainly gave up a lot with poor defensive effort in the 1st round. For the money though Nylander is the best bang for your buck in the playoffs.
notDatsyuk
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I omitted the first two games mainly because they were loose, regular season type games, while the rest have been much more 'playoff' style.The Leafs can't advance to the next round though if we disregard the first win against Tampa!
Nylander fared well offensively during the playoffs. If the numbers are being honest, The Core Four, Rielly, ROR, and even Knies - for the number of games he played in - led the way in that regard (albeit not entirely in that order). It's a bit unfortunate that the decline essentially began just after them. A few players signed to decent money and/or term in that group as well (Brodie, Kerfoot, Jarnkrok).
Mitch and JT each had 3 points in that game, while Matty and Willy had 2 each (Willy with the GWG), so it doesn't change the overall picture much.
notDatsyuk
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There were certainly people who seemed to blame him for every goal scored while he was on the ice, but he wasn't nearly as bad as some say.
For example, three of his -4 were scored just after he stepped on the ice on a change, and before he could join the play.
killer1980
Registered User
He put toether a great regular season team that doesn't translate to playoff success. One would think after 6 years of having these slugs disappear during the playoffs that MLSE would be able to realize that these guys aren't gonna do antything but supply the franchise with false hope. No, it falls on the GM for picking a bunch of losers who disappear when it really matters.
Machinae
Registered User
Waste two whole seasons running back this spineless, unlikeable core? Honestly forget that, don't think I can watch another second of Marner in the playoffs laughing while he gets dummied.
Get kings ransoms for Marner and Nylander, move JT to wing, give Matthews what he wants, and find some guys with heart that make 3-5 mil instead of 7-10 mil.
What is missing? Burning it all down actually makes sense, but not because this is a fix. It is just a necessity, The empirical evidence is clear.
Many writers have commented on the fact that "something is missing" on this team. I would say, quoting Nirvana "something is in the way". Although it sounds radical, sometimes what you subtract from a team can solve problems faster than what you add. We think too much about what to add.
Changing the GM and the coach has to happen, because they have not achieved what they should, but on its own, that does not solve the problem. It really is about the players in the end.
This thought IS radical, but I believe that their main strength is the their main weakness: Matthews and Marner. I sometimes wonder about "the room" and how it works. I imagine M and M off on their own, certainly acting superior to all of the foot soldiers, acting functionally as a separate clique, checking what the are going to wear to the rink and making it sure it is a different colour. M and M are the poison on this team. They are well-intentioned, but their own contracts are the cause of the inability of the support troops to take the pressure off them. I also think there is a character issue, and you can laugh at how irrelevant it is, but.. it is not. I just think arrogance and attitude comes through, and I assume this is a split room, a two-class system, the lords and the serfs.
They need to move both Matthews and Marner now, and get back four or five young players, and think about distributing the talent, but most of all, make sure they care about winning in the end, more than partying in Muskoka. I don`t care if they make the playoffs next year per se. Just something to build towards.
We all have to face it. This is over.
Many writers have commented on the fact that "something is missing" on this team. I would say, quoting Nirvana "something is in the way". Although it sounds radical, sometimes what you subtract from a team can solve problems faster than what you add. We think too much about what to add.
Changing the GM and the coach has to happen, because they have not achieved what they should, but on its own, that does not solve the problem. It really is about the players in the end.
This thought IS radical, but I believe that their main strength is the their main weakness: Matthews and Marner. I sometimes wonder about "the room" and how it works. I imagine M and M off on their own, certainly acting superior to all of the foot soldiers, acting functionally as a separate clique, checking what the are going to wear to the rink and making it sure it is a different colour. M and M are the poison on this team. They are well-intentioned, but their own contracts are the cause of the inability of the support troops to take the pressure off them. I also think there is a character issue, and you can laugh at how irrelevant it is, but.. it is not. I just think arrogance and attitude comes through, and I assume this is a split room, a two-class system, the lords and the serfs.
They need to move both Matthews and Marner now, and get back four or five young players, and think about distributing the talent, but most of all, make sure they care about winning in the end, more than partying in Muskoka. I don`t care if they make the playoffs next year per se. Just something to build towards.
We all have to face it. This is over.
Why would we get rid of a speedy winger with 25 points in his last 25 playoff games who just broke out with 40 goals this season for 7 milliion, when we clearly need more speed and scoring ?
BraveCanadian
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- Jun 30, 2010
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Oof leaving out games so a tiny sample size, not focusing on ES/PP only when Nylander does 0 PK.. like I agree that probably ROR should have been dropped back for Nylander to get more PP time but there is no world where the stats match people’s perception of Nylander right now.
He did have a great Montreal series.. otherwise indifferent most of the time and a couple of timely (and lucky in a couple cases) goals.
BallardEra
Leafs&Caps Since 1982™
WARMINGTON: Grapes says now's not the time to 'blow up' Maple Leafs
While he loved the Toronto Sun's “Blow it up” and “De-Marner” front pages, he does not think this is the right time to do it.
torontosun.com
Marner+ for Josi my dream 
Marner for Forsberg+ , decent composition change.
Nashville a good partner? I don’t watch other teams as much anymore since hockey is less physical.
Marner for Keller ++ from Arizona doesn’t really change our composition but it keeps our skill there and gets cap space. Maybe throw in Crouse, D , goalie or prospect?
Marner for Kyle Conner, ship his ass to Winnipeg. Both aren’t fast but at least Connor can shoot.
Meh bleh roast away I’m bored trying to think of trades like flordia did last year since Kyle referenced it. Dont think we trade him in the east and Don’t think kyle or whoever is GM wants prospects and picks for him.
Marner for Forsberg+ , decent composition change.
Nashville a good partner? I don’t watch other teams as much anymore since hockey is less physical.
Marner for Keller ++ from Arizona doesn’t really change our composition but it keeps our skill there and gets cap space. Maybe throw in Crouse, D , goalie or prospect?
Marner for Kyle Conner, ship his ass to Winnipeg. Both aren’t fast but at least Connor can shoot.
Meh bleh roast away I’m bored trying to think of trades like flordia did last year since Kyle referenced it. Dont think we trade him in the east and Don’t think kyle or whoever is GM wants prospects and picks for him.
notDatsyuk
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I already explained why I specified the last 9, and also pointed out that including all 11 didn't make much difference.
You may not have noticed, but none of our goals were scored when we were shorthanded.
Considering that people's perception is that he was likely our best offensive player in these playoffs, especially considering his much lower cap hit, those stats very clearly match that perception.
And actually, I would rather drop Tavares from PP1 than ROR, but that's just my opinion - I do agree that Nylander makes the second unit much better than either JT or ROR would.
notDatsyuk
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If Cherry says 'no', then it's obviously time to make changes.WARMINGTON: Grapes says now's not the time to 'blow up' Maple Leafs
While he loved the Toronto Sun's “Blow it up” and “De-Marner” front pages, he does not think this is the right time to do it.
Does he seriously think Simmonds would have made a difference, or is he still just catering to his 'Rock 'em, Sock 'em" fans?
I agree with the pride part.
I believe JT will agree to be move if there is a good deal without retentions bc guys like JT got too much pride to play for a team that doesn’t want them.
Imagine the deal is for JT Miller for JT and JT didn’t waive. Medias will have a field day and anytime JT plays a bad game(which happens to everyone), it will be why is he still here.
In a way, we got Rock’em Sock’em by the Panthers
Stephen
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- Feb 28, 2002
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I disagree. JT's living the dream, in the city he wants to be in. I think he could probably get into the cocoon and just stay the course with his contract.
This dream is turning into a nightmare.
I am not saying JT will just say Yes to any trades but unlike previous years, MGT will ask him will he move for this city for that player(S) or that city for that player(S). It will take a toll on you.
Beside Keefe? Lol
Ofcourse JT
HEAVY DUTY
"Nobody ever suspects the butterfly."
Can't they get out of JT's deal by finding a team willing to buyout his contract? Similar to how they got out of Zaitsev and Marleau's deal a couple of years ago? And then sign JT back on a cheaper deal after it's done. Obviously it would cost some picks and prospects but it's probably worth it if it means finally paying JT what he's worth and also fulfills his wish to come back.
