The Core Has To Go

[myleafs]

That's my impression as well.

Lack of time and space is Marners and Matthews downfall in the playoffs. Everything is tighter and faster and they just cant quite get to a place that they can do their thing. Its what is separating them from the other stars in the league.

 

[Buds17]

Im indifferent about Keefe...Ive seen enough coaches over the years to know that they all have their blindspots and all will be raked over the coals if they dont succeed. Keeping the core together just means more of the same and that is something I have no interest in and will not support. Not one of our big boys showed up( again) other than Nylander (again) . He would be the last guy I move out of the top 4. If we tinker around the edges again with this core we are doomed more than we already are.

Overall, I'm not sure how Nylander showed up more than Matthews or Marner as the numbers don't quite indicate as much? In the event of Dubas remaining at the helm, I'll reiterate that I'm not necessarily expecting either of a core player being moved or Keefe being let go. I do believe that Keefe being fired or Nylander being traded (assuming any of the core being moved at all) would be among the "easier" moves to make though if bigger changes were to occur. It'd be impossible to know right now if either or both would be the prudent path to take.

 

[myleafs]

I mean if we’re talking about papparazi following you and telling everyone you were at home watching Netflix on the weekend instead of figuring out how to improve at the thing you keep messing up sure.

But if one of my employees had a massive ****-up at work on Friday and was voluntarily posting on social media about how excited he is to go golfing Saturday morning I’d certainly make note of it and start casually looking for someone else who can do his job.

Mitch can solve 99% of his PR problems by deleting social media completely. Go to the cottage or the golf course if you must, just do it quietly when you’re public enemy #1 for a week before everyone moves on. He does it to himself over and over, constant unforced errors both on and off the ice.

As much as I think harping on what 16 is doing after getting eliminated is kind of weird........This (bolded) is the obvious answer to appease everyone.

 

[myleafs]

Overall, I'm not sure how Nylander showed up more than Matthews or Marner as the numbers don't quite indicate as much? In the event of Dubas remaining at the helm, I'll reiterate that I'm not necessarily expecting either of a core player being moved or Keefe being let go. I do believe that Keefe being fired or Nylander being traded (assuming any of the core being moved at all) would be among the "easier" moves to make though if bigger changes were to occur. It'd be impossible to know right now if either or both would be the prudent path to take.

Nylander didnt really show up (nobody that we needed to score did) but I thought he looked slightly more engaged and dangerous than Batman and robin

 

[Buds17]

Nylander didnt really show up (nobody that we needed to score did) but I thought he looked slightly more engaged and dangerous than Batman and robin

I can agree with Nylander being the best among that lot at times.

 

[AvroArrow]

Do you really believe Marner doesnt work on his game in the off season? I mean come on man. I get your hurt...i am too but sheesh.

Not as much as he needs to make this into a championship team

 

[ErnieLeafs]

I mean if we’re talking about papparazi following you and telling everyone you were at home watching Netflix on the weekend instead of figuring out how to improve at the thing you keep messing up sure.

But if one of my employees had a massive ****-up at work on Friday and was voluntarily posting on social media about how excited he is to go golfing Saturday morning I’d certainly make note of it and start casually looking for someone else who can do his job.

Mitch can solve 99% of his PR problems by deleting social media completely. Go to the cottage or the golf course if you must, just do it quietly when you’re public enemy #1 for a week before everyone moves on. He does it to himself over and over, constant unforced errors both on and off the ice.

The guy us allowed to live his life. It’s this kind of weirdo behaviour from fans that I’ll never understand.

It’s not an “unforced error” to live his life.

 

[57 Years No Cup]

I've been thinking and saying this since the Montreal series but one of the conditions for continuing with Marner is you have to separate the Leafs cup pursuit with Marner's own personal come up story. The can be a key player but the success of the organization needs to be untangled from his own emotional, reputational investment.

Stamkos is a great example of a playoff underachiever whose team still managed to build around and win. He wasn't their "main character" when they did it. And same principle holds true for Marner.

The problem is that this is a salary cap league and he has a "main character" cap hit.

I have to interrupt you right there. On a championship team, defense and goaltending can't just be passable. They need to be strengths in and of themselves so you can win multiple play styles vs multiple opponents.

A stronger defense also allows for your offense to be used differently and more aggressively, whether that's a better transition game or more freedom to counter punch without worrying that your D have no idea how to defend a 3 on 2 or a 2 on 1.

Goaltending needs to be a strength in and of itself because you know you can retreat into a shell game with confidence.

Strength begets strength. You can't go cheap on everything else because those weaknesses always short circuit the offense. Every year, the opposition beats us on a hot goalie, park the bus variation and some form of physical play. Why we consistently ignore these issues with the fantasy we'll outscore our opponents is beyond me.

 

[Martin Skoula]

The guy us allowed to live his life. It’s this kind of weirdo behaviour from fans that I’ll never understand.

It’s not an “unforced error” to live his life.

He can do whatever he wants, I don’t really care. I hope he has the funnest summer of his life. Just if every newspaper in the city is on your case for not trying hard enough or caring enough, why feed the fire by volunteering that information online? Just post a shot at the gym or nothing at all for a few weeks and you won’t have to write weird letters to the fans to do damage control.

 

[BallardEra]

 

[WillNy29]

Why would it be pennies on a dollar? I believe there would be big interest with his name recognition and nationality. If he doesn't want to re-sign you have no other option.

lol you're not going to get the right value for him then you spend another 5 years rebuilding and when there's another few years of playoff misses and not succeeding we rebuild again

IF he doesn’t want to sign here. He has to be traded. Can you think of a trade where we get a top C?

if he doesn't want to sign here then he's not getting you a top C back there's no one in the league outside of mcdavid, draisatl, McKinnon at centre that isn't a massive downgrade for the leafs at centre and none of those are getting traded for him

 

[ACC1224]

He put the work in to get to the NHL, that's fine. But he's not willing to put in the work to win a championship.

…and you arrived at this conclusion because he may or may not have played golf once the season ended? You don’t see how crazy that sounds?

 

[Stephen]

A common mistake fans make is thinking that defense is just one skill and offense is another skill.

There are types of defenses and types of offenses. Good teams have personnel that can play both. We are a good team vs a cycle and a good cycle team but the transition D and Offense has been lacking. The way forward is to not just start doubling down on the style of players we already have in abundance but to get players that fill niches we don't have anymore.

We need guys that can break out of the zone m, we need guys that can defend other teams when they are cutting through the zone. That's the TLDR version.

Toronto's blueline construction this era has consistently been poor.

Toronto keeps comparing itself to championship era Tampa Bay, but the devil's in the details. They have small skilled forwards up front but their back end was always a redwood forest of big defenders. You build a strong back end with big bodies, you protect your goalie and you have an insurance policy against counter rushes resulting in your skill plays.

Toronto's defensive construction is haphazard with not a lot of attention paid to handedness and size or player type.

Notice the struggle in finding functional pairings and the lack of puzzle pieces that fit together.

They don't have a good amount of size to protect the slot with any physical authority.

They don't have a point shot (I remember some interesting conversations about how modern teams don't shoot from distance anymore).

They've struggled with LHD and RHD balance.

It's just a shittily put together group. I think the only reason why they've performed well is they activate lower talented defensemen to make higher skill, higher risk transition and pinch plays. It works in volume but also results in more catastrophic breakdowns when things get jammed back the other way or when the offense starts to cheat for goals. It's a consistent problem.

 

[SweSensFan]

Matthews, a guy that has cracked 85+ points once, the guy that isn’t a PPG player in the playoffs for Bedard ? Lol

Ha ha, Bedard or Byfield +. Maybe I should sell my car for a million dollars or for a pair of worn socks!

 

[Legion34]

I’m so happy

lol you're not going to get the right value for him then you spend another 5 years rebuilding and when there's another few years of playoff misses and not succeeding we rebuild again


if he doesn't want to sign here then he's not getting you a top C back there's no one in the league outside of mcdavid, draisatl, McKinnon at centre that isn't a massive downgrade for the leafs at centre and none of those are getting traded for him

And if he leaves for nothing…… isn’t that worse? I’m really confused. Are you suggesting that if he doesn’t want to sign an extension we just keep him and let him walk?

 

[dtown77]

I've been thinking about the Toronto off-season way more then I should be. I keep coming up with the same conclusion. The Leafs will not make any major moves unless they know for sure Matthew's will not re sign. Toronto has the roster to compete now. They are not going to blow it up. They also will not get the value back they would need to pull the trigger on trades. I think you'll see a lot of familiar faces to start next season. I'm not trolling. I am genuinely interested in how this off season will play out. I'm obviously a Wings fan but I always liked Toronto as a kid. I liked Ottawa too. Never cared for Edmonton much lol

 

[baton elevated]

lol you're not going to get the right value for him then you spend another 5 years rebuilding and when there's another few years of playoff misses and not succeeding we rebuild again


if he doesn't want to sign here then he's not getting you a top C back there's no one in the league outside of mcdavid, draisatl, McKinnon at centre that isn't a massive downgrade for the leafs at centre and none of those are getting traded for him

So two Rockets and a hart for young center is going to get you scrubs? Then why are people calling him generational or a franchise player. He will get you a nice return, not a comparable center but a few pieces and I'm not even his biggest fan.

 

[Suntouchable13]

None of the remaining teams have close to 3 guys making 11M+ on the cap. You don't need so many high priced forwards to compete for the cup. You simply don't. You need a well balanced lineup. People are building statues for these guys, but the 3 11M forwards combined for 1 goal in the 2nd round. Dubas has done an atrocious job building this team.

 

[capfit9]

None of the remaining teams have close to 3 guys making 11M+ on the cap. You don't need so many high priced forwards to compete for the cup. You simply don't. You need a well balanced lineup. People are building statues for these guys, but the 3 11M forwards combined for 1 goal in the 2nd round. Dubas has done an atrocious job building this team.

Well they'll be bringing Dubas back so likely indicating the core group is back too with Keefe returning as coach with an extension probably sneakily announced start of next season.

 

[Machinae]

You know, trading away Marner or Nylander doesn't automatically become a loss..? Islanders got better losing Tavares for free. Plenty of stars have been traded for equal or better value. Change needs to come.

 

[Suntouchable13]

Well they'll be bringing Dubas back so likely indicating the core group is back too with Keefe returning as coach with an extension probably sneakily announced start of next season.

That's what mediocre franchises do. They are satisfied with 2 extra playoff wins over the previous seasons. Great progress! They will pat each other on the back again. Next year will be the same thing. Maybe win a round, and that's it.

 

[authentic]

None of the remaining teams have close to 3 guys making 11M+ on the cap. You don't need so many high priced forwards to compete for the cup. You simply don't. You need a well balanced lineup. People are building statues for these guys, but the 3 11M forwards combined for 1 goal in the 2nd round. Dubas has done an atrocious job building this team.

Doesn't this fall more on the players than the GM though? He stockpiled elite forwards and they can't seem to score enough when it really matters.

 

[Suntouchable13]

Doesn't this fall more on the players than the GM though? He stockpiled elite forwards and they can't seem to score enough when it really matters.

That means something is wrong and you have to shake it up. Why are supposedly less talented teams always do better? Why is Carolina in the ECF missing Svech and Patches?

 

[authentic]

You know, trading away Marner or Nylander doesn't automatically become a loss..? Islanders got better losing Tavares for free. Plenty of stars have been traded for equal or better value. Change needs to come.

Why don't we just let Tavares contract run out? What return are we really getting for one of Matthews or Marner (IMO it would be a huge mistake trading them both, or even just Matthews) that will put us over the top in the next few seasons?

I think once his contract runs out we might have a better chance to actually get better.

 

[authentic]

That means something is wrong and you have to shake it up. Why are supposedly less talented teams always do better? Why is Carolina in the ECF missing Svech and Patches?

True, but what I mean is when tying your money into forwards and the group can't score enough goals that would be like a GM stocking up on elite defensemen but they let in too many goals. Doesn't seem the blame should be on the GM really. Was he supposed to give up on the core before they reached their mid 20s? At this point I agree change is needed and the Tavares contract is bad (with the benefit of hindsight) but it's really a question of what are we getting back that will actually make a difference, and at the same time actually stay good enough that we make the playoffs to begin with. With one of Matthews or Marner gone I could see us be on the cusp of a playoff spot with the return we would likely get from it.